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Re: [FH] raw organ meats was Vet articles regarding cardiac nutrition and Fox study

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  • Debbie Raikes-May
    btw I think it most unlikely they would eat chicken innards raw, too tough and gristly. Braising slow tenderises them and brings out the full smell which is
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 1, 2003
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      btw I think it most unlikely they would eat chicken innards raw, too tough and gristly. Braising slow tenderises them and brings out the full smell which is what gets my old girlies going.
      Debbie
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Susan
      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 7:58 PM
      Subject: [FH] raw organ meats was Vet articles regarding cardiac nutrition and Fox study



      --- Debbie Raikes-May
      <debbie.raikesmay@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi
      > I have always fed both my cats a little raw, fresh
      > and finely chopped liver and kidney a week. I use
      > calves liver in preference to pig or lambs as there
      > are organically reared cattle here and use lambs
      > kidney as it is softer in texture for old cat teeth.
      > Both cats adore it and it is best mixed with a
      > little COOKED brown rice.
      > Debbie


      Thanks Debbie,

      The reason I wondered is because I have never known a
      cat to show any interest in chicken innards. Do you
      freeze the leftover portions of the organ meats?

      Susan

      =====
      Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19 months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling

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    • savionna@aol.com
      In a message dated 7/1/03 3:00:42 PM, somnamblst@yahoo.com writes:
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 1, 2003
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        In a message dated 7/1/03 3:00:42 PM, somnamblst@... writes:

        << The reason I wondered is because I have never known a
        cat to show any interest in chicken innards. Do you
        freeze the leftover portions of the organ meats? >>

        Hi Susan,

        I feed raw chicken organs...both as part of the entire balanced raw meal (ie,
        ground with muscle meat and low-glycemic vegetables, supplemented with the
        correct amt of taurine and calcium, among other supplements) or as a small treat
        by themselves, about 1 oz of it maybe once per wk (b/c it is not a balanced
        meal). I also feed raw poultry (chicken, hen, or duck) necks, cut into chunks
        and smashed, to help keep the cat's teeth and gums healthy.

        I occasionally freeze some organ meat separately, in 1 oz portions, but
        usually freeze it as part of the whole meal or feed fresh if I have it on hand from
        poultry we're eating.

        I've been feeding raw for 4 yrs...and our cat is very interested in all
        meats, incl organs. // Rosemary
      • bcowell
        Bobo and Karamu both adore raw gizzards and hearts. They re not so keen on raw liver, but then I don t like liver for them anyway. I give them the hearts and
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 1, 2003
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          Bobo and Karamu both adore raw gizzards and hearts. They're not so
          keen on raw liver, but then I don't like liver for them anyway.
          I give them the hearts and gizzards occasionally instead of their
          chicken legs, which also need to be raw. Bobo won't eat cooked meat.
          Brigitte

          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Raikes-May"
          <debbie.raikesmay@d...> wrote:
          > btw I think it most unlikely they would eat chicken innards raw,
          too tough and gristly. Braising slow tenderises them and brings out
          the full smell which is what gets my old girlies going.
          > Debbie
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: Susan
          > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 7:58 PM
          > Subject: [FH] raw organ meats was Vet articles regarding cardiac
          nutrition and Fox study
          >
          >
          >
          > --- Debbie Raikes-May
          > <debbie.raikesmay@d...> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > Hi
          > > I have always fed both my cats a little raw, fresh
          > > and finely chopped liver and kidney a week. I use
          > > calves liver in preference to pig or lambs as there
          > > are organically reared cattle here and use lambs
          > > kidney as it is softer in texture for old cat teeth.
          > > Both cats adore it and it is best mixed with a
          > > little COOKED brown rice.
          > > Debbie
          >
          >
          > Thanks Debbie,
          >
          > The reason I wondered is because I have never known a
          > cat to show any interest in chicken innards. Do you
          > freeze the leftover portions of the organ meats?
          >
          > Susan
          >
          > =====
          > Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19
          months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic
          heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg
          Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling
          >
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          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Shirley G.
          - I used to give one cat raw liver all the time but I would freeze it first to kill certain bacteria and then I would chop it up while still cold. I do not
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 1, 2003
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            -

            I used to give one cat raw liver all the time but I would
            freeze it first to kill certain bacteria and then I would chop it up
            while still cold. I do not like to give raw food to my cats at all.
            Many vets do not like it either.I prefer to micro whatever it is
            until just pink or beyond pink. As to the gizzards being tough, well
            there is always the blender or food
            processor.
            - In feline-
            heart@yahoogroups.com, "bcowell" <bcowell@y...> wrote:
            > Bobo and Karamu both adore raw gizzards and hearts. They're not so
            > keen on raw liver, but then I don't like liver for them anyway.
            > I give them the hearts and gizzards occasionally instead of their
            > chicken legs, which also need to be raw. Bobo won't eat cooked meat.
            > Brigitte
            >
            > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Raikes-May"
            > <debbie.raikesmay@d...> wrote:
            > > btw I think it most unlikely they would eat chicken innards raw,
            > too tough and gristly. Braising slow tenderises them and brings out
            > the full smell which is what gets my old girlies going.
            > > Debbie
            > > ----- Original Message -----
            > > From: Susan
            > > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            > > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 7:58 PM
            > > Subject: [FH] raw organ meats was Vet articles regarding
            cardiac
            > nutrition and Fox study
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- Debbie Raikes-May
            > > <debbie.raikesmay@d...> wrote:
            > > >
            > > >
            > > >
            > > > Hi
            > > > I have always fed both my cats a little raw, fresh
            > > > and finely chopped liver and kidney a week. I use
            > > > calves liver in preference to pig or lambs as there
            > > > are organically reared cattle here and use lambs
            > > > kidney as it is softer in texture for old cat teeth.
            > > > Both cats adore it and it is best mixed with a
            > > > little COOKED brown rice.
            > > > Debbie
            > >
            > >
            > > Thanks Debbie,
            > >
            > > The reason I wondered is because I have never known a
            > > cat to show any interest in chicken innards. Do you
            > > freeze the leftover portions of the organ meats?
            > >
            > > Susan
            > >
            > > =====
            > > Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19
            > months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic
            > heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5
            mg
            > Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling
            > >
            > > __________________________________
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            > > ADVERTISEMENT
            > >
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            > >
            > >
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            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
            > Service.
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • bcowell
            For as many vets that do not like raw food for cats, you could probably find an equal number that do. It is a personal decision, but for us it was not a
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 1, 2003
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              For as many vets that do not like raw food for cats, you could
              probably find an equal number that do. It is a personal decision, but
              for us it was not a choice... Bobo refuses to eat dry food and cooked
              meat... I'd rather he ate something. Just like our other cat,
              Canaille, likes Fancy Feast. I think that is kitty junk food, but
              again I'd rather she ate.
              I've heard gizzards recommended to clean kitty's teeth when they chew
              them up.
              I'd rather they ate cooked meat, but instead I am just extremely
              careful with the fresh meat. I'm a microbiologist and quite paranoid
              about bacteria!
              Brigitte

              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Shirley G." <cgilpy@j...> wrote:
              > -
              >

              > I used to give one cat raw liver all the time but I would
              > freeze it first to kill certain bacteria and then I would chop it
              up
              > while still cold. I do not like to give raw food to my cats at
              all.
              > Many vets do not like it either.I prefer to micro whatever it is
              > until just pink or beyond pink. As to the gizzards being tough,
              well
              > there is always the blender or food
              >
              processor.
              > - In feline-
              > heart@yahoogroups.com, "bcowell" <bcowell@y...> wrote:
              > > Bobo and Karamu both adore raw gizzards and hearts. They're not
              so
              > > keen on raw liver, but then I don't like liver for them anyway.
              > > I give them the hearts and gizzards occasionally instead of their
              > > chicken legs, which also need to be raw. Bobo won't eat cooked
              meat.
              > > Brigitte
              > >
              > > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Raikes-May"
              > > <debbie.raikesmay@d...> wrote:
              > > > btw I think it most unlikely they would eat chicken innards
              raw,
              > > too tough and gristly. Braising slow tenderises them and brings
              out
              > > the full smell which is what gets my old girlies going.
              > > > Debbie
              > > > ----- Original Message -----
              > > > From: Susan
              > > > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 01, 2003 7:58 PM
              > > > Subject: [FH] raw organ meats was Vet articles regarding
              > cardiac
              > > nutrition and Fox study
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- Debbie Raikes-May
              > > > <debbie.raikesmay@d...> wrote:
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > >
              > > > > Hi
              > > > > I have always fed both my cats a little raw, fresh
              > > > > and finely chopped liver and kidney a week. I use
              > > > > calves liver in preference to pig or lambs as there
              > > > > are organically reared cattle here and use lambs
              > > > > kidney as it is softer in texture for old cat teeth.
              > > > > Both cats adore it and it is best mixed with a
              > > > > little COOKED brown rice.
              > > > > Debbie
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Thanks Debbie,
              > > >
              > > > The reason I wondered is because I have never known a
              > > > cat to show any interest in chicken innards. Do you
              > > > freeze the leftover portions of the organ meats?
              > > >
              > > > Susan
              > > >
              > > > =====
              > > > Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at
              19
              > > months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic
              > > heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic,
              12.5
              > mg
              > > Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling
              > > >
              > > > __________________________________
              > > > Do you Yahoo!?
              > > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
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              > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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              > > >
              > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
              > > > feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
              > > Service.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Susan
              ... Brigitte, I asked the question regarding raw organ meats on the vetlearn.com bulletin board and they brought up both bacterial contamination and parasites.
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 2, 2003
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                --- bcowell <bcowell@...> wrote:
                >> I'd rather they ate cooked meat, but instead I am
                > just extremely
                > careful with the fresh meat. I'm a microbiologist
                > and quite paranoid
                > about bacteria!
                > Brigitte


                Brigitte,

                I asked the question regarding raw organ meats on the
                vetlearn.com bulletin board and they brought up both
                bacterial contamination and parasites. I mentioned I
                had the OK from IM vet to feed raw baby clams and a
                vet said he was not aware of any parasites in clams
                but wasn't sure. I know I read somewhere once that
                organ meats contain concentrated amounts of anything
                bad the animal may have consumed or been exposed to
                and of course organ meats are sinfully high in
                cholesteral. ALSO it took an anthropologist to
                discover the brain wasting disease Kuru in New
                Guineau was transmitted because elderly females were
                practicing cannibalism of brain tissue. I keep
                thinking that the issue of organ meats is more complex
                than it may seem on the surface.

                Susan

                Susan

                =====
                Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19 months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling

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              • Wathey, Lisa
                Hey Brigitte, what do you think of the books that recommend treating the meat with grapefruit-seed extract to kill the bacteria (or anything else). Is it
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 2, 2003
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                  Hey Brigitte, what do you think of the books that recommend "treating" the meat with grapefruit-seed extract to kill the bacteria (or anything else). Is it the acidic environment that would do it? I have just been buying Barney good quality meat at Whole foods but am concerned about it. Is there anything we can do to make it safer? Lisa W.



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                  This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee(s) only and may be confidential and covered by the attorney/client and other privileges. If the reader is not the intended recipient, DO NOT READ, notify sender and delete this message. In addition, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited.



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Shirley G.
                  ... the HCM cat please tell me because my vet is on vacation. I cannot eat organ meat and I love chicken livers and beef liver but it is bad for my cholesterol
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 2, 2003
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                    ---Organ meats is very high in cholesterol if that is dangerous to
                    the HCM cat please tell me because my vet is on vacation. I cannot
                    eat organ meat and I love chicken livers and beef liver but it is bad
                    for my cholesterol and heart so it is not
                    permitted.

                    In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
                    >
                    > --- bcowell <bcowell@y...> wrote:
                    > >> I'd rather they ate cooked meat, but instead I am
                    > > just extremely
                    > > careful with the fresh meat. I'm a microbiologist
                    > > and quite paranoid
                    > > about bacteria!
                    > > Brigitte
                    >
                    >
                    > Brigitte,
                    >
                    > I asked the question regarding raw organ meats on the
                    > vetlearn.com bulletin board and they brought up both
                    > bacterial contamination and parasites. I mentioned I
                    > had the OK from IM vet to feed raw baby clams and a
                    > vet said he was not aware of any parasites in clams
                    > but wasn't sure. I know I read somewhere once that
                    > organ meats contain concentrated amounts of anything
                    > bad the animal may have consumed or been exposed to
                    > and of course organ meats are sinfully high in
                    > cholesteral. ALSO it took an anthropologist to
                    > discover the brain wasting disease Kuru in New
                    > Guineau was transmitted because elderly females were
                    > practicing cannibalism of brain tissue. I keep
                    > thinking that the issue of organ meats is more complex
                    > than it may seem on the surface.
                    >
                    > Susan
                    >
                    > Susan
                    >
                    > =====
                    > Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19
                    months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic
                    heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg
                    Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling
                    >
                    > __________________________________
                    > Do you Yahoo!?
                    > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
                    > http://sbc.yahoo.com
                  • bcowell
                    Susan, I would never want to feed a lot of liver for the cholesterol issue, this is an organ that concentrates fats and is not necessarily so good. It is also
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 2, 2003
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                      Susan,
                      I would never want to feed a lot of liver for the cholesterol issue,
                      this is an organ that concentrates fats and is not necessarily so
                      good. It is also the organ that filters, so it is the one that
                      collects stuff like heavy metals and toxins. The heart is not one of
                      those organs. I think it is hard to generalize about organs when they
                      have such different functions. For example, the brain, it is quite a
                      different tissue from the heart. The brain is related to transmission
                      of prions such as Kuru as you say, but there is no data suggesting
                      that eating of hearts would do the same.
                      So I feed hearts and gizzards but not liver. Liver is often fed to
                      fatten animals, and i guess that is because of it's high fat content.
                      I asked both my vet and vet cardiologist about the feeding of hearts
                      and gizzards and they were only positive. I did not want to feed
                      these meats to my cats before I checked, but hearts had been
                      recommended for taurine and gizzards for teeth cleaning.
                      All meat we buy has an issue of bacterial contamination, especially
                      chicken. But it is important to remember that the same bacteria that
                      give us gastrointestinal disease from eating contaminated foods are
                      not the same ones that affect our cats and dogs.
                      Brigitte


                      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
                      >
                      > --- bcowell <bcowell@y...> wrote:
                      > >> I'd rather they ate cooked meat, but instead I am
                      > > just extremely
                      > > careful with the fresh meat. I'm a microbiologist
                      > > and quite paranoid
                      > > about bacteria!
                      > > Brigitte
                      >
                      >
                      > Brigitte,
                      >
                      > I asked the question regarding raw organ meats on the
                      > vetlearn.com bulletin board and they brought up both
                      > bacterial contamination and parasites. I mentioned I
                      > had the OK from IM vet to feed raw baby clams and a
                      > vet said he was not aware of any parasites in clams
                      > but wasn't sure. I know I read somewhere once that
                      > organ meats contain concentrated amounts of anything
                      > bad the animal may have consumed or been exposed to
                      > and of course organ meats are sinfully high in
                      > cholesteral. ALSO it took an anthropologist to
                      > discover the brain wasting disease Kuru in New
                      > Guineau was transmitted because elderly females were
                      > practicing cannibalism of brain tissue. I keep
                      > thinking that the issue of organ meats is more complex
                      > than it may seem on the surface.
                      >
                      > Susan
                      >
                      > Susan
                      >
                      > =====
                      > Rudy: Male DSH brown tabby, feral mom, diagnosed 09-2002 at 19
                      months of age with idiopathic HCM: grade 2 murmur, hyperkinetic
                      heart, borderline normal thickening, considered asymptomatic, 12.5 mg
                      Atenolol 1x day, 1/2 baby aspirin 2x week administered via pilling
                      >
                      > __________________________________
                      > Do you Yahoo!?
                      > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
                      > http://sbc.yahoo.com
                    • bcowell
                      Lisa, I hadn t heard of using grapefruit-seed extract. There are a number of things that would kill most bacteria (never all, really only autoclaving or
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 2, 2003
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                        Lisa,
                        I hadn't heard of using grapefruit-seed extract. There are a number
                        of things that would kill most bacteria (never all, really only
                        autoclaving or pressure cooking would do that). It could be acid in
                        the extract I would think, one of the issues is will your cat still
                        eat it after treatment? Maybe you could try adding the extract and
                        see how much it changes the look and smell of it.
                        I know a lot of cat breeders that feed chicken drop the raw chicken
                        legs in boiling water for 3 minutes... it leaves the inside raw but
                        somewhat sterilizes the outside. One breeder even drops in frozen raw
                        chicken.
                        I buy chicken at Whole Foods also for Bobo, I figure it's the best
                        available for me, so it is good for him too. To be safe, I don't buy
                        budget chicken, and I buy the chicken every other day so it is as
                        fresh as possible. If we had a bigger freezer I would probably
                        stockpile it so I didn't have to go grocery shopping all the time.
                        Brigitte

                        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Wathey, Lisa" <ljw@r...> wrote:
                        > Hey Brigitte, what do you think of the books that
                        recommend "treating" the meat with grapefruit-seed extract to kill
                        the bacteria (or anything else). Is it the acidic environment that
                        would do it? I have just been buying Barney good quality meat at
                        Whole foods but am concerned about it. Is there anything we can do
                        to make it safer? Lisa W.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
                        <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the
                        addressee(s) only and may be confidential and covered by the
                        attorney/client and other privileges. If the reader is not the
                        intended recipient, DO NOT READ, notify sender and delete this
                        message. In addition, be aware that any disclosure, copying,
                        distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly
                        prohibited.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Susan
                        ... You may want to try baby clams for taurine (really high) and they are quite chewy so I imagine they are good for teeth. The iodine content is comparable to
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 3, 2003
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                          --- bcowell <bcowell@...> wrote:
                          > I asked both my vet and vet cardiologist about the
                          > feeding of hearts
                          > and gizzards and they were only positive. I did not
                          > want to feed
                          > these meats to my cats before I checked, but hearts
                          > had been
                          > recommended for taurine and gizzards for teeth
                          > cleaning.

                          You may want to try baby clams for taurine (really
                          high) and they are quite chewy so I imagine they are
                          good for teeth. The iodine content is comparable to
                          chicken. Could Red Tide affect canned baby clams that
                          you know of?

                          > All meat we buy has an issue of bacterial
                          > contamination, especially
                          > chicken.

                          I am going to try beef heart. Rudy doesn't like any
                          chicken.

                          But it is important to remember that the
                          > same bacteria that
                          > give us gastrointestinal disease from eating
                          > contaminated foods are
                          > not the same ones that affect our cats and dogs.


                          I personally would worry most about feeding raw in the
                          context of the members of this list to any cats who
                          are suffering from cardiac cachexia since it does have
                          an effect on immune system function.

                          Some seafood recipes call for marinating in lemon
                          juice as that precooks the seafood. I wonder if this
                          could be a way to feed raw without baterial worry,
                          afterall it is the heat that distroys vitamins.

                          Do you have access to the full text articles that
                          PubMed lists abstracts for?

                          Susan


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                        • bcowell
                          Hi Susan, I ll try the baby clams. I am thinking that little Karamu will love them as she loves most food forms, but Bobo hasn t liked any fishy things I ve
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 3, 2003
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                            Hi Susan,
                            I'll try the baby clams. I am thinking that little Karamu will love
                            them as she loves most food forms, but Bobo hasn't liked any fishy
                            things I've tried so he'll most likely not be interested. He's so
                            finicky and of course he's my heart kitty (mitral valve dysplasia).
                            Red Tide is an algal profusion isn't it? Can't see that that would be
                            bad, but I would want to do a search on it... I'll try to today. I
                            can't spend too much time at the computer...I fell down the stairs a
                            couple days ago and can't really sit down still.
                            Marinating in lemon juice would probably do a lot to kill most
                            bacteria. I think some can survive, after all food-borne pathogens
                            survive going through the stomach before causing trouble in your
                            intestines. For example, the bacteria that causes dysentery is
                            resistant to stomach acid, while the more common Salmonella and
                            Vibrio (seafood) are susceptible. So it most likely would be good,
                            but you would then have to see if your cat was interested in lemon-
                            flavored meat!
                            As to PubMed, I used to have access when I was working at the
                            university, and for a bit after I quit (I started questioning what I
                            was doing with my life). The university changed its system and the
                            passwords changed. I've been trying to get my ex-mentor to get me new
                            ID, but she's not so computer savvy so I think I will have to go
                            visit her to see if it can be worked out. Sorry I can't be of help
                            with that right now :(
                            Brigitte

                            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Susan <somnamblst@y...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- bcowell <bcowell@y...> wrote:
                            > > I asked both my vet and vet cardiologist about the
                            > > feeding of hearts
                            > > and gizzards and they were only positive. I did not
                            > > want to feed
                            > > these meats to my cats before I checked, but hearts
                            > > had been
                            > > recommended for taurine and gizzards for teeth
                            > > cleaning.
                            >
                            > You may want to try baby clams for taurine (really
                            > high) and they are quite chewy so I imagine they are
                            > good for teeth. The iodine content is comparable to
                            > chicken. Could Red Tide affect canned baby clams that
                            > you know of?
                            >
                            > > All meat we buy has an issue of bacterial
                            > > contamination, especially
                            > > chicken.
                            >
                            > I am going to try beef heart. Rudy doesn't like any
                            > chicken.
                            >
                            > But it is important to remember that the
                            > > same bacteria that
                            > > give us gastrointestinal disease from eating
                            > > contaminated foods are
                            > > not the same ones that affect our cats and dogs.
                            >
                            >
                            > I personally would worry most about feeding raw in the
                            > context of the members of this list to any cats who
                            > are suffering from cardiac cachexia since it does have
                            > an effect on immune system function.
                            >
                            > Some seafood recipes call for marinating in lemon
                            > juice as that precooks the seafood. I wonder if this
                            > could be a way to feed raw without baterial worry,
                            > afterall it is the heat that distroys vitamins.
                            >
                            > Do you have access to the full text articles that
                            > PubMed lists abstracts for?
                            >
                            > Susan
                            >
                            >
                            > __________________________________
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                          • Myra DeTate
                            My hubby found some canned baby clams today at our regular grocery with the ingredients of clams, water, salt, citric acid . Sounds like they are already
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 3, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              My hubby found some canned baby clams today at our regular grocery
                              with the ingredients of "clams, water, salt, citric acid". Sounds
                              like they are already marinated. Our Bob loved them!!! I just
                              poured the can out in a collandar & rinsed very well. I only gave
                              him 4 (really small). Trying to keep them for a pill treat. Thanks
                              for the suggestions.

                              Lots of Kitty Kisses,
                              Myra & Bob
                              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "bcowell" <bcowell@y...> wrote:
                              > Hi Susan,
                              > I'll try the baby clams. ,
                              > but you would then have to see if your cat was interested in lemon-
                              > flavored meat!
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