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Re: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....

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  • Debbie Raikes-May
    I am so sorry Marja I remember when you first posted about your cat. You have been very brave and I utterly agree with the email which said the vet sholuld not
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 30 2:13 PM
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      I am so sorry Marja
      I remember when you first posted about your cat.
      You have been very brave and I utterly agree with the email which said the vet sholuld not have burned your cat! This is outrageous. Please take it further if that is the case. Peace to you and your beautiful kitty.
      ;ove
      Debbie
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Marja van Die
      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 11:10 PM
      Subject: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....


      hi all, I'm just wondering what to expect when it is time to say goodbye to my precious kitty. She is 17 1/2 now, is a CRF cat but has had heart problems for 1 1/2 years now. The vet said a few weeks back her kidneys were the least of her problems. She kept holding fluids in her belly for weeks but finally got rid of that for about 2 weeks. Now I see her belly filling up again :-( I gave her a tablet to make her pee, double dose, hope it works. She also has a skin problem, Im not exactly sure what it is, neither have the vets been really clear. She had a operation end january, to get her woomb out, and a few weeks after that, she had bad wounds on her shoulders and back. I asked in CRF cat forum about this and a lady woking with a vet specialized in skin problems told me they were most likey burn wounds from the operation, through heat pads. I still find this most likely allthough I have never confronted the vets. I have seen a few and most say they do not know what it is. 1 said it was from her kidneys, another said it was a skininfection. This skin is now real hard, it is like a harnas, Im wondering how much this may bother her now? I would think real bad.... Take care nowSuterun

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    • diane
      How has she been doing? Diane
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 30 8:36 PM
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        How has she been doing?


        Diane
      • Christine Hughes
        Hi Debbie and Marja, Now I am concerned about heat pads. I was really upset to think of what had happened to your cat Marja, with the heat pads. I bought one
        Message 3 of 9 , May 1, 2003
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          Hi Debbie and Marja,

          Now I am concerned about heat pads. I was really upset to think of what had happened to your cat Marja, with the heat pads. I bought one when our cat was pregnant with the intention of using it when she had the kittens, but after switching it on and feeling how hot it got, I was afraid to use it. It was OK while it was covered with the fleece pocket that was supplied with it, but this could easily be pushed aside, and the pad underneath, I felt, would burn a kitten left on there for any time. Are these generally safe?

          Our little poorly girl with the heart problem is still coping. Earlier yesterday I thought the end was very near for her, but then last night she perked up and actually tried to climb up my leg. She didn't gain any weight today, but has accepted 2mls of milk (no wet food) and seems fairly bright. Her eyes seem open more - don't know if this is of any relevance. So, we're still taking it day by day, with hopes up and down as we go. Chris

          From: Debbie Raikes-May

          Subject: Re: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....


          I am so sorry Marja
          I remember when you first posted about your cat.
          You have been very brave and I utterly agree with the email which said the vet sholuld not have burned your cat! This is outrageous. Please take it further if that is the case. Peace to you and your beautiful kitty.
          ;ove
          Debbie

          From: Marja van Die
          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 11:10 PM
          Subject: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....


          hi all, I'm just wondering what to expect when it is time to say goodbye to my precious kitty. She is 17 1/2 now, is a CRF cat but has had heart problems for 1 1/2 years now. The vet said a few weeks back her kidneys were the least of her problems. She kept holding fluids in her belly for weeks but finally got rid of that for about 2 weeks. Now I see her belly filling up again :-( I gave her a tablet to make her pee, double dose, hope it works. She also has a skin problem, Im not exactly sure what it is, neither have the vets been really clear. She had a operation end january, to get her woomb out, and a few weeks after that, she had bad wounds on her shoulders and back. I asked in CRF cat forum about this and a lady woking with a vet specialized in skin problems told me they were most likey burn wounds from the operation, through heat pads. I still find this most likely allthough I have never confronted the vets. I have seen a few and most say they do not know what it is. 1 said it was from her kidneys, another said it was a skininfection. This skin is now real hard, it is like a harnas, Im wondering how much this may bother her now? I would think real bad.... Take care nowSuterun







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        • Debbie Raikes-May
          Dear Chris I had never heard of any cat being burned with heat pads before...my view is that this vet was very negligent...the nursing staff would have been
          Message 4 of 9 , May 1, 2003
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            Dear Chris
            I had never heard of any cat being burned with heat pads before...my view is that this vet was very negligent...the nursing staff would have been watching the cat as it recovered and probably thrashed about a bit. Treacle has a heated pad but I double wrap it to be on the safe side. Chris, re your poorly kitten...until she is eight weeks and can be scanned you may find a homeopath can offer more in terms of strengthening her heart till then. I use info@... the vets name is Mark Hessey. He is excellent and will prescribe support tinctures on line...email him and ask him to ring you. We used him for Treacle and he really is brilliant. Anything that gets her painlessly though the next month is worth it.
            Tell him Debbie Ansell gave you his number (my married name)
            Love
            Debbie
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Christine Hughes
            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 8:44 AM
            Subject: Re: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....


            Hi Debbie and Marja,

            Now I am concerned about heat pads. I was really upset to think of what had happened to your cat Marja, with the heat pads. I bought one when our cat was pregnant with the intention of using it when she had the kittens, but after switching it on and feeling how hot it got, I was afraid to use it. It was OK while it was covered with the fleece pocket that was supplied with it, but this could easily be pushed aside, and the pad underneath, I felt, would burn a kitten left on there for any time. Are these generally safe?

            Our little poorly girl with the heart problem is still coping. Earlier yesterday I thought the end was very near for her, but then last night she perked up and actually tried to climb up my leg. She didn't gain any weight today, but has accepted 2mls of milk (no wet food) and seems fairly bright. Her eyes seem open more - don't know if this is of any relevance. So, we're still taking it day by day, with hopes up and down as we go. Chris

            From: Debbie Raikes-May

            Subject: Re: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....


            I am so sorry Marja
            I remember when you first posted about your cat.
            You have been very brave and I utterly agree with the email which said the vet sholuld not have burned your cat! This is outrageous. Please take it further if that is the case. Peace to you and your beautiful kitty.
            ;ove
            Debbie

            From: Marja van Die
            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 11:10 PM
            Subject: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....


            hi all, I'm just wondering what to expect when it is time to say goodbye to my precious kitty. She is 17 1/2 now, is a CRF cat but has had heart problems for 1 1/2 years now. The vet said a few weeks back her kidneys were the least of her problems. She kept holding fluids in her belly for weeks but finally got rid of that for about 2 weeks. Now I see her belly filling up again :-( I gave her a tablet to make her pee, double dose, hope it works. She also has a skin problem, Im not exactly sure what it is, neither have the vets been really clear. She had a operation end january, to get her woomb out, and a few weeks after that, she had bad wounds on her shoulders and back. I asked in CRF cat forum about this and a lady woking with a vet specialized in skin problems told me they were most likey burn wounds from the operation, through heat pads. I still find this most likely allthough I have never confronted the vets. I have seen a few and most say they do not know what it is. 1 said it was from her kidneys, another said it was a skininfection. This skin is now real hard, it is like a harnas, Im wondering how much this may bother her now? I would think real bad.... Take care nowSuterun







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          • Christine Hughes
            Thanks Debbie, I ll do that. Love Chris From: Debbie Raikes-May Subject: Re: [FH] signs of the end being near.... Dear Chris I had never heard of any cat
            Message 5 of 9 , May 1, 2003
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              Thanks Debbie, I'll do that. Love Chris

              From: Debbie Raikes-May

              Subject: Re: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....


              Dear Chris
              I had never heard of any cat being burned with heat pads before...my view is that this vet was very negligent...the nursing staff would have been watching the cat as it recovered and probably thrashed about a bit. Treacle has a heated pad but I double wrap it to be on the safe side. Chris, re your poorly kitten...until she is eight weeks and can be scanned you may find a homeopath can offer more in terms of strengthening her heart till then. I use info@... the vets name is Mark Hessey. He is excellent and will prescribe support tinctures on line...email him and ask him to ring you. We used him for Treacle and he really is brilliant. Anything that gets her painlessly though the next month is worth it.
              Tell him Debbie Ansell gave you his number (my married name)
              Love
              Debbie
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Christine Hughes
              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 8:44 AM
              Subject: Re: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....


              Hi Debbie and Marja,

              Now I am concerned about heat pads. I was really upset to think of what had happened to your cat Marja, with the heat pads. I bought one when our cat was pregnant with the intention of using it when she had the kittens, but after switching it on and feeling how hot it got, I was afraid to use it. It was OK while it was covered with the fleece pocket that was supplied with it, but this could easily be pushed aside, and the pad underneath, I felt, would burn a kitten left on there for any time. Are these generally safe?

              Our little poorly girl with the heart problem is still coping. Earlier yesterday I thought the end was very near for her, but then last night she perked up and actually tried to climb up my leg. She didn't gain any weight today, but has accepted 2mls of milk (no wet food) and seems fairly bright. Her eyes seem open more - don't know if this is of any relevance. So, we're still taking it day by day, with hopes up and down as we go. Chris

              From: Debbie Raikes-May

              Subject: Re: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....


              I am so sorry Marja
              I remember when you first posted about your cat.
              You have been very brave and I utterly agree with the email which said the vet sholuld not have burned your cat! This is outrageous. Please take it further if that is the case. Peace to you and your beautiful kitty.
              ;ove
              Debbie

              From: Marja van Die
              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 11:10 PM
              Subject: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....


              hi all, I'm just wondering what to expect when it is time to say goodbye to my precious kitty. She is 17 1/2 now, is a CRF cat but has had heart problems for 1 1/2 years now. The vet said a few weeks back her kidneys were the least of her problems. She kept holding fluids in her belly for weeks but finally got rid of that for about 2 weeks. Now I see her belly filling up again :-( I gave her a tablet to make her pee, double dose, hope it works. She also has a skin problem, Im not exactly sure what it is, neither have the vets been really clear. She had a operation end january, to get her woomb out, and a few weeks after that, she had bad wounds on her shoulders and back. I asked in CRF cat forum about this and a lady woking with a vet specialized in skin problems told me they were most likey burn wounds from the operation, through heat pads. I still find this most likely allthough I have never confronted the vets. I have seen a few and most say they do not know what it is. 1 said it was from her kidneys, another said it was a skininfection. This skin is now real hard, it is like a harnas, Im wondering how much this may bother her now? I would think real bad.... Take care nowSuterun







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            • Marja van Die
              Hi Debbie,Chris and Diane and everyone reading. Following is the reply I received on my question a few months back, I was so shocked. It s in proper english,
              Message 6 of 9 , May 2, 2003
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                Hi Debbie,Chris and Diane and everyone reading. Following is the reply I received on my question a few months back, I was so shocked. It's in proper english, so think you will understand it better then my crummy english ;-) <<<<First, check with your regular vet to see if they had used heating
                pads during and after surgery. This is a very common practice to
                keep the kitty warm during and after anesthesia. When cats are
                sedated they must rely on a human to rotate their little bodies.
                When they are not, they are in one position for a long time. This
                can cause a burn to occur. This is often not noticed until the burn
                starts to surface in a scabby like presence (healing) and hair starts
                to fall off. The cat is on it's back for an OHE (ovariohysterectomy).
                Since the body temperature decreases during anesthesia, heating pads
                are used. As a licensed vet tech with a specialist in veterinary
                dermatology, this is seen more often than most people think. It
                often goes unnoticed until a few weeks after surgery. Oral cortisone
                is the treatment of choice until the areas have healed. Hairloss may
                be permanent as the hair follicles are damaged.

                Another form of crusting/scabiness on a cats skin can be an
                Autoimmune disease called Pemphigus Foliaceous. There is not reason
                as to why some cats get this and others don't. It is uncommon, but
                it is often traced back to a very stressful situation. It is not a
                curable or life threatenting disease, but requires lifelong cortisone.
                THis is diagnosed via a biopsy. But first and foremost, I would
                check with your vet about the use of heating pads and start there.
                Often times when it is a burn, antibiotics are necessary to fight of
                any infection that has occured. >>>>>> It sounded and still sounds very likely this happened to Suteruni, I discovered the crusts a few weeks after the operation. I made an appointment with a vet without Sut because I didnt want to stress her, she had been through so much. There are many vets working at the place I go now so you don't always know which vet you will see. At the time ofcause I had no clue where the crusts came from and asked the vet if it could be from her kidneys, as she is a CRF cat too. This vet confirmed it would be ( without seeing Suteruni ). The next days I did an online search for crusts or any kind of skin problems being symptoms for CRF cats and I couldnt find a thing. That is why I asked in the CRF catsupport forum. Sut's heath has been going downhill fast since the operation. The next time I visited the vet was because she seemed to be going crazy, was behaving real strange. This vet said ( another vet I had not seen before )she was in big pains because of the crusts. When I asked him what it was he said he did not know at all. He said the skin underneath the crusts would heal and the crusts will fall off. The 3rd time, yet another vet I visited, this time because her belly was swollen up with fluids, said it was a skin infection which sometimes happens due to scratches from other cats or injections. She sounded very sure of herself this was the reason. The last time , again another vet I visited for her increasing heart problems saw the crusts and said : Oh my god, what is that???? The reason I didnt confront the vets is that I had just changed vets after wasting a year with a vet in my home town. She was on medicine for heart rythm problems but I felt something els was terribly wrong with her but they kept saying she was ok, she looked very well for her age . Looking back they should have tested her blood and should have looked further much sooner and I should have pushed them to do so but I thought, them being the vets, they would know best <shrug> I feel so bad about this now, this is were I let my own cat down :( After several things that irritated me I decided to take Suteruni to another vet, in another town for a 2nd opinion. From then on all went fast, they made an echo and saw she needed a ovariohysterectomy badly, it was about to burst, so I had really no other choice then to have her operated at 17 years of age, which is risky. She made it though, I was so relieved!!Ofcause I am not 100% sure she has burnwounds but it still seems so likely to me and I find the reactions of the 4 different vets weird. I do feel like they are covering up. I would have rather heard them admitting it, people make mistakes all the time with any job, its only human. It's just real sad this happened to my baby, I feel like I have let her down so much. All the time I wanted the best for her, instead I think I made it worse. I have lost a lot of faith in vets. Not only because of these possible burn wounds but other things too. Like the first ones I had for a year, I cant help but feel they didnt want to do much for an old cat. And a few weeks back when Suteruni seemed in pain and I rushed to the vets on a sunday and they gave her an injection and arriving home she was vomitting , had foam coming out of her mouth and slimy strings and she was very scared. I phoned the vet thinking she was dieing and she said it was a reaction to the injection, that some animals have this reaction and it would pass. It did pass but it took hours before she was back to normal again. I think she had an allergic reaction, but why did the vet just not say so?
                I can see Suteruni does not have long to live and do not want to put her through too much stress. The crusts are real hard now, I have to be carefull in stroking her, sometimes I hear it crack when she walks. It itches too, I see her scratching more now. She was pretty ok for about 2 weeks, sometimes her belly seemed to swell again but the next day it would be gone. The last 2 days however it is huge again, so I am giving her medicine to pee. Excuse my poor english. She is eating less again but still is hungry and asks for food, just doesnt eat that much. The belly is making her feel very uncomfortable, its hard for her to moove around.Her heart is giving up on her :-( I also have posted in dutch forums every now and then and the last time there were people saying I should have her put to sleep. This is very hurtfull, I honestly would not let her suffer needlessly or because I cant let her go but I do want to give her every chance in the world. After all we went through I am very tired, I have a fulltime job too and finding it hard to cope. There have been so many times I was at work and really wanted to be at home to keep an eye on Sut. After this is all over I will be devoted in finding another vet whom I can trust because I have 3 other cats, they all are 10 years old now. I have learned a lot in the past 1 1/2 years, what happened to Suteruni will not happen to my other cats. As soon as one of them has health problems I will insist on bloodtests as a start. Thanks for listening and give your kitty's a big hug from me, they are lucky to have such devoted caretakers :-) Marja/Suteruni

                diane <diane@...> wrote:How has she been doing?


                Diane

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              • Debbie Raikes-May
                Dear Marja I can only speak for myself but I am sure others will be saying the same thing. I am APPALLED at the treatment you and Suterini have received...it
                Message 7 of 9 , May 2, 2003
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                  Dear Marja
                  I can only speak for myself but I am sure others will be saying the same thing.
                  I am APPALLED at the treatment you and Suterini have received...it is inexcusable. These people are meant to help not hurt an animal further. And it sounds to me as if they are all covering up for each other.

                  Never, never go back there again. Tell all your friends, colleagues etc of your experiences. Keep it factual as you do not want to be in danger of slander/libel but spread the word.

                  There are two things
                  Firstly her care now - and it sounds as if the new vet is more competent
                  Secondly, an explanation of what happened from the vets. I strongly suggest you go and see a solicitor (ask colleagues who they recommend) and explain what has happened. Ask him/her to draft a letter to the vet who is in charge of the practice, requesting a written explanation of why your cat emerged from their care with burns of this magnitude. Make it plain you need a reply inside a deadline (say a week) and that if one is not forthcoming you will be taking further action for non co operation. Copy this letter to the Governing Body of Vets (which your Solicitor can find) I know the legal system in the Netherlands is similar to the UK in that you can have an initial meeting with a solicitor and a letter sent for a payment of about £25. Any future fees can then be decided if you want to take further action.

                  Once you have this reply from them you can decide what to do. If they are being dismissive or not taking responsibility, you may choose to pursue it because of other cats. At the very least I think you should get your fees back plus the money you have had to spend getting her treated to get over their errors and negligence.
                  Your solicitor may take the case on on a no win no fee basis because you should think too about the cost to you in emotional terms...hard to out a figure on but you are a working woman who has needed to take time away from her job etc etc all that carries a £££ penalty.

                  Normally I am peace loving and anti litigation. But this makes my blood boil for the poor cat who can't even walk now without it hurting. And what distress to you it has caused.

                  Now, for Suterini...aloe vera gel is very good for burns and if she licks it off that can only benefit her insides too. There are dressings available from chemists which are moist gel backed and this may be an option too as the cracking is where the dead skin is sloughing away. It needs to be kept moist and clean so fresh skin underneath can grow.
                  Finally, I think the CRF thing is a con. I have never heard of a cat having crusts as a result of its condition! This is a massive cover up.

                  Your english is great, don;t give it a thought, We are so sorry for all this.
                  Please go and take steps against this dreadful shower of incompetents.

                  I would be happy to help you word a letter if you want to send it yourself, email me privately and I will give my phone number.
                  Best wishes and love to Suterini
                  Debbie

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Marja van Die
                  To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:35 AM
                  Subject: Re: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....


                  Hi Debbie,Chris and Diane and everyone reading. Following is the reply I received on my question a few months back, I was so shocked. It's in proper english, so think you will understand it better then my crummy english ;-) <<<<First, check with your regular vet to see if they had used heating
                  pads during and after surgery. This is a very common practice to
                  keep the kitty warm during and after anesthesia. When cats are
                  sedated they must rely on a human to rotate their little bodies.
                  When they are not, they are in one position for a long time. This
                  can cause a burn to occur. This is often not noticed until the burn
                  starts to surface in a scabby like presence (healing) and hair starts
                  to fall off. The cat is on it's back for an OHE (ovariohysterectomy).
                  Since the body temperature decreases during anesthesia, heating pads
                  are used. As a licensed vet tech with a specialist in veterinary
                  dermatology, this is seen more often than most people think. It
                  often goes unnoticed until a few weeks after surgery. Oral cortisone
                  is the treatment of choice until the areas have healed. Hairloss may
                  be permanent as the hair follicles are damaged.

                  Another form of crusting/scabiness on a cats skin can be an
                  Autoimmune disease called Pemphigus Foliaceous. There is not reason
                  as to why some cats get this and others don't. It is uncommon, but
                  it is often traced back to a very stressful situation. It is not a
                  curable or life threatenting disease, but requires lifelong cortisone.
                  THis is diagnosed via a biopsy. But first and foremost, I would
                  check with your vet about the use of heating pads and start there.
                  Often times when it is a burn, antibiotics are necessary to fight of
                  any infection that has occured. >>>>>> It sounded and still sounds very likely this happened to Suteruni, I discovered the crusts a few weeks after the operation. I made an appointment with a vet without Sut because I didnt want to stress her, she had been through so much. There are many vets working at the place I go now so you don't always know which vet you will see. At the time ofcause I had no clue where the crusts came from and asked the vet if it could be from her kidneys, as she is a CRF cat too. This vet confirmed it would be ( without seeing Suteruni ). The next days I did an online search for crusts or any kind of skin problems being symptoms for CRF cats and I couldnt find a thing. That is why I asked in the CRF catsupport forum. Sut's heath has been going downhill fast since the operation. The next time I visited the vet was because she seemed to be going crazy, was behaving real strange. This vet said ( another vet I had not seen before )she was in big pains because of the crusts. When I asked him what it was he said he did not know at all. He said the skin underneath the crusts would heal and the crusts will fall off. The 3rd time, yet another vet I visited, this time because her belly was swollen up with fluids, said it was a skin infection which sometimes happens due to scratches from other cats or injections. She sounded very sure of herself this was the reason. The last time , again another vet I visited for her increasing heart problems saw the crusts and said : Oh my god, what is that???? The reason I didnt confront the vets is that I had just changed vets after wasting a year with a vet in my home town. She was on medicine for heart rythm problems but I felt something els was terribly wrong with her but they kept saying she was ok, she looked very well for her age . Looking back they should have tested her blood and should have looked further much sooner and I should have pushed them to do so but I thought, them being the vets, they would know best <shrug> I feel so bad about this now, this is were I let my own cat down :( After several things that irritated me I decided to take Suteruni to another vet, in another town for a 2nd opinion. From then on all went fast, they made an echo and saw she needed a ovariohysterectomy badly, it was about to burst, so I had really no other choice then to have her operated at 17 years of age, which is risky. She made it though, I was so relieved!!Ofcause I am not 100% sure she has burnwounds but it still seems so likely to me and I find the reactions of the 4 different vets weird. I do feel like they are covering up. I would have rather heard them admitting it, people make mistakes all the time with any job, its only human. It's just real sad this happened to my baby, I feel like I have let her down so much. All the time I wanted the best for her, instead I think I made it worse. I have lost a lot of faith in vets. Not only because of these possible burn wounds but other things too. Like the first ones I had for a year, I cant help but feel they didnt want to do much for an old cat. And a few weeks back when Suteruni seemed in pain and I rushed to the vets on a sunday and they gave her an injection and arriving home she was vomitting , had foam coming out of her mouth and slimy strings and she was very scared. I phoned the vet thinking she was dieing and she said it was a reaction to the injection, that some animals have this reaction and it would pass. It did pass but it took hours before she was back to normal again. I think she had an allergic reaction, but why did the vet just not say so?
                  I can see Suteruni does not have long to live and do not want to put her through too much stress. The crusts are real hard now, I have to be carefull in stroking her, sometimes I hear it crack when she walks. It itches too, I see her scratching more now. She was pretty ok for about 2 weeks, sometimes her belly seemed to swell again but the next day it would be gone. The last 2 days however it is huge again, so I am giving her medicine to pee. Excuse my poor english. She is eating less again but still is hungry and asks for food, just doesnt eat that much. The belly is making her feel very uncomfortable, its hard for her to moove around.Her heart is giving up on her :-( I also have posted in dutch forums every now and then and the last time there were people saying I should have her put to sleep. This is very hurtfull, I honestly would not let her suffer needlessly or because I cant let her go but I do want to give her every chance in the world. After all we went through I am very tired, I have a fulltime job too and finding it hard to cope. There have been so many times I was at work and really wanted to be at home to keep an eye on Sut. After this is all over I will be devoted in finding another vet whom I can trust because I have 3 other cats, they all are 10 years old now. I have learned a lot in the past 1 1/2 years, what happened to Suteruni will not happen to my other cats. As soon as one of them has health problems I will insist on bloodtests as a start. Thanks for listening and give your kitty's a big hug from me, they are lucky to have such devoted caretakers :-) Marja/Suteruni

                  diane <diane@...> wrote:How has she been doing?


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                • Wathey, Lisa
                  Marja, I am so sorry. You are doing everything you can and you are right to fight to keep her alive and healthy as long as you can. I m upset those vets
                  Message 8 of 9 , May 2, 2003
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Marja, I am so sorry. You are doing everything you can and you are right to fight to keep her alive and healthy as long as you can. I'm upset those vets didn't admit what likely happened or at least tell you it was a possibility. If they intentionally lied and covered it up, go after them, and ask for punitive damages (if they have those in the Netherlands!). I'm a lawyer and I think a suit should be the last possible avenue but it makes me mad too that they are either really incompetent and really don't know it was caused by a burn and were just negligent or were negligent and then lied about it. Either way, they need to be brought to justice. Glad you are getting better help. I hope with all my heart that you can make her feel better and more comfortable.
                    Lisa, Barney and Angel Gable
                    Gable, 8-year old black and white tuxedo, domestic shorthair, 16 lbs., died of heart failure from HCM. Failure induced by fluid therapy for bladder stones. Precious child of love and light, I miss you with all of my heart and soul.

                    Barney, 8-year old white and brown tabby, domestic shorthair, 16 lbs., echocardiogram for HCM inconclusive, ranged from normal to abnormal.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Debbie Raikes-May [mailto:debbie.raikesmay@...]
                    Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 6:17 AM
                    To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....


                    Dear Marja
                    I can only speak for myself but I am sure others will be saying the same thing.
                    I am APPALLED at the treatment you and Suterini have received...it is inexcusable. These people are meant to help not hurt an animal further. And it sounds to me as if they are all covering up for each other.

                    Never, never go back there again. Tell all your friends, colleagues etc of your experiences. Keep it factual as you do not want to be in danger of slander/libel but spread the word.

                    There are two things
                    Firstly her care now - and it sounds as if the new vet is more competent
                    Secondly, an explanation of what happened from the vets. I strongly suggest you go and see a solicitor (ask colleagues who they recommend) and explain what has happened. Ask him/her to draft a letter to the vet who is in charge of the practice, requesting a written explanation of why your cat emerged from their care with burns of this magnitude. Make it plain you need a reply inside a deadline (say a week) and that if one is not forthcoming you will be taking further action for non co operation. Copy this letter to the Governing Body of Vets (which your Solicitor can find) I know the legal system in the Netherlands is similar to the UK in that you can have an initial meeting with a solicitor and a letter sent for a payment of about £25. Any future fees can then be decided if you want to take further action.

                    Once you have this reply from them you can decide what to do. If they are being dismissive or not taking responsibility, you may choose to pursue it because of other cats. At the very least I think you should get your fees back plus the money you have had to spend getting her treated to get over their errors and negligence.
                    Your solicitor may take the case on on a no win no fee basis because you should think too about the cost to you in emotional terms...hard to out a figure on but you are a working woman who has needed to take time away from her job etc etc all that carries a £££ penalty.

                    Normally I am peace loving and anti litigation. But this makes my blood boil for the poor cat who can't even walk now without it hurting. And what distress to you it has caused.

                    Now, for Suterini...aloe vera gel is very good for burns and if she licks it off that can only benefit her insides too. There are dressings available from chemists which are moist gel backed and this may be an option too as the cracking is where the dead skin is sloughing away. It needs to be kept moist and clean so fresh skin underneath can grow.
                    Finally, I think the CRF thing is a con. I have never heard of a cat having crusts as a result of its condition! This is a massive cover up.

                    Your english is great, don;t give it a thought, We are so sorry for all this.
                    Please go and take steps against this dreadful shower of incompetents.

                    I would be happy to help you word a letter if you want to send it yourself, email me privately and I will give my phone number.
                    Best wishes and love to Suterini
                    Debbie

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Marja van Die
                    To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:35 AM
                    Subject: Re: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....


                    Hi Debbie,Chris and Diane and everyone reading. Following is the reply I received on my question a few months back, I was so shocked. It's in proper english, so think you will understand it better then my crummy english ;-) <<<<First, check with your regular vet to see if they had used heating
                    pads during and after surgery. This is a very common practice to
                    keep the kitty warm during and after anesthesia. When cats are
                    sedated they must rely on a human to rotate their little bodies.
                    When they are not, they are in one position for a long time. This
                    can cause a burn to occur. This is often not noticed until the burn
                    starts to surface in a scabby like presence (healing) and hair starts
                    to fall off. The cat is on it's back for an OHE (ovariohysterectomy).
                    Since the body temperature decreases during anesthesia, heating pads
                    are used. As a licensed vet tech with a specialist in veterinary
                    dermatology, this is seen more often than most people think. It
                    often goes unnoticed until a few weeks after surgery. Oral cortisone
                    is the treatment of choice until the areas have healed. Hairloss may
                    be permanent as the hair follicles are damaged.

                    Another form of crusting/scabiness on a cats skin can be an
                    Autoimmune disease called Pemphigus Foliaceous. There is not reason
                    as to why some cats get this and others don't. It is uncommon, but
                    it is often traced back to a very stressful situation. It is not a
                    curable or life threatenting disease, but requires lifelong cortisone.
                    THis is diagnosed via a biopsy. But first and foremost, I would
                    check with your vet about the use of heating pads and start there.
                    Often times when it is a burn, antibiotics are necessary to fight of
                    any infection that has occured. >>>>>> It sounded and still sounds very likely this happened to Suteruni, I discovered the crusts a few weeks after the operation. I made an appointment with a vet without Sut because I didnt want to stress her, she had been through so much. There are many vets working at the place I go now so you don't always know which vet you will see. At the time ofcause I had no clue where the crusts came from and asked the vet if it could be from her kidneys, as she is a CRF cat too. This vet confirmed it would be ( without seeing Suteruni ). The next days I did an online search for crusts or any kind of skin problems being symptoms for CRF cats and I couldnt find a thing. That is why I asked in the CRF catsupport forum. Sut's heath has been going downhill fast since the operation. The next time I visited the vet was because she seemed to be going crazy, was behaving real strange. This vet said ( another vet I had not seen before )she was in big pains because of the crusts. When I asked him what it was he said he did not know at all. He said the skin underneath the crusts would heal and the crusts will fall off. The 3rd time, yet another vet I visited, this time because her belly was swollen up with fluids, said it was a skin infection which sometimes happens due to scratches from other cats or injections. She sounded very sure of herself this was the reason. The last time , again another vet I visited for her increasing heart problems saw the crusts and said : Oh my god, what is that???? The reason I didnt confront the vets is that I had just changed vets after wasting a year with a vet in my home town. She was on medicine for heart rythm problems but I felt something els was terribly wrong with her but they kept saying she was ok, she looked very well for her age . Looking back they should have tested her blood and should have looked further much sooner and I should have pushed them to do so but I thought, them being the vets, they would know best <shrug> I feel so bad about this now, this is were I let my own cat down :( After several things that irritated me I decided to take Suteruni to another vet, in another town for a 2nd opinion. From then on all went fast, they made an echo and saw she needed a ovariohysterectomy badly, it was about to burst, so I had really no other choice then to have her operated at 17 years of age, which is risky. She made it though, I was so relieved!!Ofcause I am not 100% sure she has burnwounds but it still seems so likely to me and I find the reactions of the 4 different vets weird. I do feel like they are covering up. I would have rather heard them admitting it, people make mistakes all the time with any job, its only human. It's just real sad this happened to my baby, I feel like I have let her down so much. All the time I wanted the best for her, instead I think I made it worse. I have lost a lot of faith in vets. Not only because of these possible burn wounds but other things too. Like the first ones I had for a year, I cant help but feel they didnt want to do much for an old cat. And a few weeks back when Suteruni seemed in pain and I rushed to the vets on a sunday and they gave her an injection and arriving home she was vomitting , had foam coming out of her mouth and slimy strings and she was very scared. I phoned the vet thinking she was dieing and she said it was a reaction to the injection, that some animals have this reaction and it would pass. It did pass but it took hours before she was back to normal again. I think she had an allergic reaction, but why did the vet just not say so?
                    I can see Suteruni does not have long to live and do not want to put her through too much stress. The crusts are real hard now, I have to be carefull in stroking her, sometimes I hear it crack when she walks. It itches too, I see her scratching more now. She was pretty ok for about 2 weeks, sometimes her belly seemed to swell again but the next day it would be gone. The last 2 days however it is huge again, so I am giving her medicine to pee. Excuse my poor english. She is eating less again but still is hungry and asks for food, just doesnt eat that much. The belly is making her feel very uncomfortable, its hard for her to moove around.Her heart is giving up on her :-( I also have posted in dutch forums every now and then and the last time there were people saying I should have her put to sleep. This is very hurtfull, I honestly would not let her suffer needlessly or because I cant let her go but I do want to give her every chance in the world. After all we went through I am very tired, I have a fulltime job too and finding it hard to cope. There have been so many times I was at work and really wanted to be at home to keep an eye on Sut. After this is all over I will be devoted in finding another vet whom I can trust because I have 3 other cats, they all are 10 years old now. I have learned a lot in the past 1 1/2 years, what happened to Suteruni will not happen to my other cats. As soon as one of them has health problems I will insist on bloodtests as a start. Thanks for listening and give your kitty's a big hug from me, they are lucky to have such devoted caretakers :-) Marja/Suteruni

                    diane <diane@...> wrote:How has she been doing?


                    Diane

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                  • bcowell
                    Marja, Debbie s answer is perfect. The treatment of Suterini and you was horrendous. I think her advice on how to proceed is exactly right. Good luck! And my
                    Message 9 of 9 , May 2, 2003
                    • 0 Attachment
                      Marja,
                      Debbie's answer is perfect. The treatment of Suterini and you was
                      horrendous. I think her advice on how to proceed is exactly right.
                      Good luck! And my best to Suterini, that poor sweet furry one...
                      Brigitte

                      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Raikes-May"
                      <debbie.raikesmay@d...> wrote:
                      > Dear Marja
                      > I can only speak for myself but I am sure others will be saying the
                      same thing.
                      > I am APPALLED at the treatment you and Suterini have received...it
                      is inexcusable. These people are meant to help not hurt an animal
                      further. And it sounds to me as if they are all covering up for each
                      other.
                      >
                      > Never, never go back there again. Tell all your friends, colleagues
                      etc of your experiences. Keep it factual as you do not want to be in
                      danger of slander/libel but spread the word.
                      >
                      > There are two things
                      > Firstly her care now - and it sounds as if the new vet is more
                      competent
                      > Secondly, an explanation of what happened from the vets. I strongly
                      suggest you go and see a solicitor (ask colleagues who they
                      recommend) and explain what has happened. Ask him/her to draft a
                      letter to the vet who is in charge of the practice, requesting a
                      written explanation of why your cat emerged from their care with
                      burns of this magnitude. Make it plain you need a reply inside a
                      deadline (say a week) and that if one is not forthcoming you will be
                      taking further action for non co operation. Copy this letter to the
                      Governing Body of Vets (which your Solicitor can find) I know the
                      legal system in the Netherlands is similar to the UK in that you can
                      have an initial meeting with a solicitor and a letter sent for a
                      payment of about £25. Any future fees can then be decided if you want
                      to take further action.
                      >
                      > Once you have this reply from them you can decide what to do. If
                      they are being dismissive or not taking responsibility, you may
                      choose to pursue it because of other cats. At the very least I think
                      you should get your fees back plus the money you have had to spend
                      getting her treated to get over their errors and negligence.
                      > Your solicitor may take the case on on a no win no fee basis
                      because you should think too about the cost to you in emotional
                      terms...hard to out a figure on but you are a working woman who has
                      needed to take time away from her job etc etc all that carries a £££
                      penalty.
                      >
                      > Normally I am peace loving and anti litigation. But this makes my
                      blood boil for the poor cat who can't even walk now without it
                      hurting. And what distress to you it has caused.
                      >
                      > Now, for Suterini...aloe vera gel is very good for burns and if she
                      licks it off that can only benefit her insides too. There are
                      dressings available from chemists which are moist gel backed and this
                      may be an option too as the cracking is where the dead skin is
                      sloughing away. It needs to be kept moist and clean so fresh skin
                      underneath can grow.
                      > Finally, I think the CRF thing is a con. I have never heard of a
                      cat having crusts as a result of its condition! This is a massive
                      cover up.
                      >
                      > Your english is great, don;t give it a thought, We are so sorry for
                      all this.
                      > Please go and take steps against this dreadful shower of
                      incompetents.
                      >
                      > I would be happy to help you word a letter if you want to send it
                      yourself, email me privately and I will give my phone number.
                      > Best wishes and love to Suterini
                      > Debbie
                      >
                      > ----- Original Message -----
                      > From: Marja van Die
                      > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                      > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:35 AM
                      > Subject: Re: [FH] signs of ' the end ' being near....
                      >
                      >
                      > Hi Debbie,Chris and Diane and everyone reading. Following is the
                      reply I received on my question a few months back, I was so shocked.
                      It's in proper english, so think you will understand it better then
                      my crummy english ;-) <<<<First, check with your regular vet to
                      see if they had used heating
                      > pads during and after surgery. This is a very common practice to
                      > keep the kitty warm during and after anesthesia. When cats are
                      > sedated they must rely on a human to rotate their little bodies.
                      > When they are not, they are in one position for a long time.
                      This
                      > can cause a burn to occur. This is often not noticed until the
                      burn
                      > starts to surface in a scabby like presence (healing) and hair
                      starts
                      > to fall off. The cat is on it's back for an OHE
                      (ovariohysterectomy).
                      > Since the body temperature decreases during anesthesia, heating
                      pads
                      > are used. As a licensed vet tech with a specialist in veterinary
                      > dermatology, this is seen more often than most people think. It
                      > often goes unnoticed until a few weeks after surgery. Oral
                      cortisone
                      > is the treatment of choice until the areas have healed. Hairloss
                      may
                      > be permanent as the hair follicles are damaged.
                      >
                      > Another form of crusting/scabiness on a cats skin can be an
                      > Autoimmune disease called Pemphigus Foliaceous. There is not
                      reason
                      > as to why some cats get this and others don't. It is uncommon,
                      but
                      > it is often traced back to a very stressful situation. It is not
                      a
                      > curable or life threatenting disease, but requires lifelong
                      cortisone.
                      > THis is diagnosed via a biopsy. But first and foremost, I would
                      > check with your vet about the use of heating pads and start
                      there.
                      > Often times when it is a burn, antibiotics are necessary to fight
                      of
                      > any infection that has occured. >>>>>> It sounded and still
                      sounds very likely this happened to Suteruni, I discovered the crusts
                      a few weeks after the operation. I made an appointment with a vet
                      without Sut because I didnt want to stress her, she had been through
                      so much. There are many vets working at the place I go now so you
                      don't always know which vet you will see. At the time ofcause I had
                      no clue where the crusts came from and asked the vet if it could be
                      from her kidneys, as she is a CRF cat too. This vet confirmed it
                      would be ( without seeing Suteruni ). The next days I did an online
                      search for crusts or any kind of skin problems being symptoms for CRF
                      cats and I couldnt find a thing. That is why I asked in the CRF
                      catsupport forum. Sut's heath has been going downhill fast since the
                      operation. The next time I visited the vet was because she seemed to
                      be going crazy, was behaving real strange. This vet said ( another
                      vet I had not seen before )she was in big pains because of the
                      crusts. When I asked him what it was he said he did not know at all.
                      He said the skin underneath the crusts would heal and the crusts will
                      fall off. The 3rd time, yet another vet I visited, this time because
                      her belly was swollen up with fluids, said it was a skin infection
                      which sometimes happens due to scratches from other cats or
                      injections. She sounded very sure of herself this was the reason. The
                      last time , again another vet I visited for her increasing heart
                      problems saw the crusts and said : Oh my god, what is that???? The
                      reason I didnt confront the vets is that I had just changed vets
                      after wasting a year with a vet in my home town. She was on medicine
                      for heart rythm problems but I felt something els was terribly wrong
                      with her but they kept saying she was ok, she looked very well for
                      her age . Looking back they should have tested her blood and should
                      have looked further much sooner and I should have pushed them to do
                      so but I thought, them being the vets, they would know best <shrug> I
                      feel so bad about this now, this is were I let my own cat down :(
                      After several things that irritated me I decided to take Suteruni to
                      another vet, in another town for a 2nd opinion. From then on all went
                      fast, they made an echo and saw she needed a ovariohysterectomy
                      badly, it was about to burst, so I had really no other choice then to
                      have her operated at 17 years of age, which is risky. She made it
                      though, I was so relieved!!Ofcause I am not 100% sure she has
                      burnwounds but it still seems so likely to me and I find the
                      reactions of the 4 different vets weird. I do feel like they are
                      covering up. I would have rather heard them admitting it, people make
                      mistakes all the time with any job, its only human. It's just real
                      sad this happened to my baby, I feel like I have let her down so
                      much. All the time I wanted the best for her, instead I think I made
                      it worse. I have lost a lot of faith in vets. Not only because of
                      these possible burn wounds but other things too. Like the first ones
                      I had for a year, I cant help but feel they didnt want to do much for
                      an old cat. And a few weeks back when Suteruni seemed in pain and I
                      rushed to the vets on a sunday and they gave her an injection and
                      arriving home she was vomitting , had foam coming out of her mouth
                      and slimy strings and she was very scared. I phoned the vet thinking
                      she was dieing and she said it was a reaction to the injection, that
                      some animals have this reaction and it would pass. It did pass but it
                      took hours before she was back to normal again. I think she had an
                      allergic reaction, but why did the vet just not say so?
                      > I can see Suteruni does not have long to live and do not want to
                      put her through too much stress. The crusts are real hard now, I have
                      to be carefull in stroking her, sometimes I hear it crack when she
                      walks. It itches too, I see her scratching more now. She was pretty
                      ok for about 2 weeks, sometimes her belly seemed to swell again but
                      the next day it would be gone. The last 2 days however it is huge
                      again, so I am giving her medicine to pee. Excuse my poor english.
                      She is eating less again but still is hungry and asks for food, just
                      doesnt eat that much. The belly is making her feel very
                      uncomfortable, its hard for her to moove around.Her heart is giving
                      up on her :-( I also have posted in dutch forums every now and then
                      and the last time there were people saying I should have her put to
                      sleep. This is very hurtfull, I honestly would not let her suffer
                      needlessly or because I cant let her go but I do want to give her
                      every chance in the world. After all we went through I am very tired,
                      I have a fulltime job too and finding it hard to cope. There have
                      been so many times I was at work and really wanted to be at home to
                      keep an eye on Sut. After this is all over I will be devoted in
                      finding another vet whom I can trust because I have 3 other cats,
                      they all are 10 years old now. I have learned a lot in the past 1 1/2
                      years, what happened to Suteruni will not happen to my other cats. As
                      soon as one of them has health problems I will insist on bloodtests
                      as a start. Thanks for listening and give your kitty's a big hug from
                      me, they are lucky to have such devoted caretakers :-) Marja/Suteruni
                      >
                      > diane <diane@m...> wrote:How has she been doing?
                      >
                      >
                      > Diane
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