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Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure

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  • Debbie Raikes-May
    I don t know what the USA price would be, in the UK I think it is about £40. I understand your money issue - how old is he? if at all possible please try and
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 2 2:57 AM
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      I don't know what the USA price would be, in the UK I think it is about £40.
      I understand your money issue - how old is he? if at all possible please try and find the funds for him as cats can have a good prgnosis despite the immediate gloom of this vet. Diuretics are cheaper and can help but it really depends on how much fluid you are talking about.
      I wish you both love and luck
      Debbie, Treacle and Kipppurrr
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: kittyluva12
      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:23 PM
      Subject: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure


      Figero has a Severe heart murmur is all i was told.My vet said he is
      surprised figero lived this long with such a severe heart murmur and
      that he will just waste away and die.Figero has severe muscle loss
      which i think makes his stomach look bigger also.Does anyone know the
      Price range for this kind of procedure(the draining)or of the cheapest
      (effective)medicine for fluid buildup?I run a rescue so We dont have
      tons of money to spend, we have 14 other cats to take care of.I love
      figero and want to do everything i can for him without Risking not
      having enough money to pay for a emergency vet visit for one of the
      other 13.Thank you again for any Info you might have.

      P.S
      this is rutebaga13


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    • Debbie Raikes-May
      Dear Marja Your English is fine, a lot better than my Dutch would be so don t worry. My Girlie Treacle is 15 and she is on Fortekor too. It has really helped
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 3 12:20 PM
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        Dear Marja
        Your English is fine, a lot better than my Dutch would be so don't worry.

        My Girlie Treacle is 15 and she is on Fortekor too. It has really helped her. Has your vet put your cat on diuretics?
        These are to make her wee /pee the fluid out...it has worked very well on Treacle. A drainage like you describe is sometimes done too but I imagine your vet is reluctant because of the bladder infections she has had.

        The pain you describe she had in her legs sounds like a blood clot which can happen. It is very painful for the cat. Has your vet put her on any anti clotting drug like a VERY small dose of aspirin?
        DON'T EVER GIVE HER THIS YOURSELF sorry to shout - but it is very poisonous to cats and has to be given in tiny amounts and under prescription.

        I hope this helps a bit. Ask lots of questions....many people here know lots and lots.
        Let us know how she is...what is her name?
        And don't let being 17 deter you. Someone here had a kitty of 19 who only went to the stars last week, God bless her.
        Love and jeep posting
        Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Marja van Die
        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
        Cc: sallymerlin@...
        Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:30 PM
        Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



        Hi :-)
        Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I am having the same problems with my cat I think.
        First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
        I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has been on a diet for a while now.
        All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy, thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is real bad for her kidneys.
        The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel so much better.
        I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
        I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is time for me to let her go?
        greetings
        Marja


        "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@...> wrote:Hi there,

        I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a good
        place of support.

        My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When he got
        to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
        cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it quite
        successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid in
        the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to deal
        with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and around the
        lungs because it can be drained manually.

        You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's condition.
        Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to the
        drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but hang
        in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids manually
        drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF kitties
        often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually helps
        keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully and
        with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require anesthesia,
        unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the vets...your
        vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
        afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
        precaution.

        The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
        efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping th
        ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
        lactulose!

        Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
        months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had over 7
        glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end he did
        pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day we
        were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this group
        helped so much.

        Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!

        Sally and Angel Muffin


        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
        wrote:
        > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
        > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he was
        > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him mildly
        > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that Figero
        > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to help as
        > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
        before?
        > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
        > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any info
        on
        > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like to
        know
        > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be done
        > about it.Thank you


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      • Debbie Raikes-May
        Sorry...I just read that she IS on drugs to make her pee.if they have taken her off these then yes...ask your vet why she is reluctant to drain...it would make
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 3 12:21 PM
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          Sorry...I just read that she IS on drugs to make her pee.if they have taken her off these then yes...ask your vet why she is reluctant to drain...it would make her feel a lot better.
          And you too I am sure!
          Debbie
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Marja van Die
          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          Cc: sallymerlin@...
          Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:30 PM
          Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



          Hi :-)
          Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I am having the same problems with my cat I think.
          First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
          I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has been on a diet for a while now.
          All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy, thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is real bad for her kidneys.
          The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel so much better.
          I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
          I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is time for me to let her go?
          greetings
          Marja


          "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@...> wrote:Hi there,

          I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a good
          place of support.

          My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When he got
          to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
          cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it quite
          successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid in
          the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to deal
          with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and around the
          lungs because it can be drained manually.

          You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's condition.
          Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to the
          drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but hang
          in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids manually
          drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF kitties
          often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually helps
          keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully and
          with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require anesthesia,
          unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the vets...your
          vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
          afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
          precaution.

          The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
          efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping th
          ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
          lactulose!

          Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
          months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had over 7
          glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end he did
          pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day we
          were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this group
          helped so much.

          Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!

          Sally and Angel Muffin


          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
          wrote:
          > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
          > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he was
          > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him mildly
          > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that Figero
          > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to help as
          > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
          before?
          > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
          > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any info
          on
          > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like to
          know
          > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be done
          > about it.Thank you


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        • kittyluva12
          Hi me again!Again thanks for all your help so far but I have another question.I live in Manchester,NH and as far as veterinary care goes were not too up to
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 3 12:28 PM
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            Hi me again!Again thanks for all your help so far but I have another
            question.I live in Manchester,NH and as far as veterinary care goes
            were not too up to date.Their are no Feline cardiologists near me at
            all,the closest one is 30 or so miles from me and Figero can't take a
            long car trip.Figero already gets stressed out in the 2 minutes it
            takes us to get to the vet now.I am going to my regular vet on
            saturday and was wondering if there is anything i should be aware of?
            My regular vet is not a cardiologist and doesnt know very much about
            heart problems.Also is their any particular medicines(diuretics)that
            anyone could suggest?Figero seems to take lasix alright but it does
            not seem to work as well as it once did.Figero is only 11 years old
            and was always in the peak of health before this so I really want to
            do everything within my power(and my bank account)to help him get
            better.One last thing has anyone else noticed that cats with heart
            issues get upper-respiratory Infections more often?Do cats with heart
            issues have a lowered immune system?Thanks again for all your help.

            P.S You can see a picture of Figero(and my other babys)
            in My photo album.My photo album is called "Jessicas Cats"
          • barbara
            Don t let go. Sometimes they need us to hold on for them when they are too tired to do it for themselves, until they get more strength. Maybe you should get
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 3 1:18 PM
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              Don't let go. Sometimes they need us to hold on for them when they are too tired to do it for themselves, until they get more strength. Maybe you should get a second opinion. My Freddie Mon has fluid around his heart, in all his cavities and the doctor said draining it could be dangerous at his age. However, he did put him on lasix which is a diuretic and hellps flush out the excess fluid. Ask about it. Keep on holding on, don't give up on her. Barbara and the KittyBabies
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Marja van Die
              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: sallymerlin@...
              Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 1:30 PM
              Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



              Hi :-)
              Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I am having the same problems with my cat I think.
              First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
              I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has been on a diet for a while now.
              All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy, thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is real bad for her kidneys.
              The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel so much better.
              I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
              I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is time for me to let her go?
              greetings
              Marja


              "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@...> wrote:Hi there,

              I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a good
              place of support.

              My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When he got
              to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
              cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it quite
              successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid in
              the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to deal
              with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and around the
              lungs because it can be drained manually.

              You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's condition.
              Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to the
              drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but hang
              in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids manually
              drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF kitties
              often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually helps
              keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully and
              with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require anesthesia,
              unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the vets...your
              vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
              afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
              precaution.

              The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
              efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping th
              ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
              lactulose!

              Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
              months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had over 7
              glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end he did
              pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day we
              were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this group
              helped so much.

              Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!

              Sally and Angel Muffin


              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
              wrote:
              > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
              > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he was
              > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him mildly
              > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that Figero
              > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to help as
              > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
              before?
              > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
              > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any info
              on
              > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like to
              know
              > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be done
              > about it.Thank you


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            • diane
              Can your vet have a cardiologist come to them (or even your home?) We have travelling cardiologists here in Ct Diane
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 3 1:28 PM
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                Can your vet have a cardiologist come to them (or even your home?)

                We have travelling cardiologists here in Ct


                Diane


                > Hi me again!Again thanks for all your help so far but I have another
                >question.I live in Manchester,NH and as far as veterinary care goes
                >were not too up to date.Their are no Feline cardiologists near me at
                >all,the closest one is 30 or so miles from me and Figero can't take a
                >long car trip.Figero already gets stressed out in the 2 minutes it
                >takes us to get to the vet now.I am going to my regular vet on
                >saturday and was wondering if there is anything i should be aware of?
                >My regular vet is not a cardiologist and doesnt know very much about
                >heart problems.Also is their any particular medicines(diuretics)that
                >anyone could suggest?Figero seems to take lasix alright but it does
                >not seem to work as well as it once did.Figero is only 11 years old
                >and was always in the peak of health before this so I really want to
                >do everything within my power(and my bank account)to help him get
                >better.One last thing has anyone else noticed that cats with heart
                >issues get upper-respiratory Infections more often?Do cats with heart
                >issues have a lowered immune system?Thanks again for all your help.
                >
                > P.S You can see a picture of Figero(and my other babys)
                >in My photo album.My photo album is called "Jessicas Cats"
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                >feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              • kittyluva12
                No,I dont beleive we have a traveling cardiologist in NH.Even if we did have a traveling cardiologist I am sure his prices would be VERY high and i dont know
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 3 5:05 PM
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                  No,I dont beleive we have a traveling cardiologist in NH.Even if we
                  did have a traveling cardiologist I am sure his prices would be VERY
                  high and i dont know if you read my earlier posts but i am running a
                  rescue and dont have alot of money to spare.Thank you anyways for you
                  input.
                • diane
                  I would call Tufts or Agnel in Boston and see what they say. I think many places have traveling cardiologists, and you aren t in a very remote part of NH. :)
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 3 5:38 PM
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                    I would call Tufts or Agnel in Boston and see what they say. I think
                    many places have traveling cardiologists, and you aren't in a very
                    remote part of NH. :)

                    I can well understand the money issues


                    Diane


                    > No,I dont beleive we have a traveling cardiologist in NH.Even if we
                    >did have a traveling cardiologist I am sure his prices would be VERY
                    >high and i dont know if you read my earlier posts but i am running a
                    >rescue and dont have alot of money to spare.Thank you anyways for you
                    >input.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • Steph
                    There is a female vet in NH who does travel around & performs ultrasounds/echos. She is not a board certififed cardiologist, however. We initially saw her
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 3 6:40 PM
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                      There is a female vet in NH who does travel around & performs
                      ultrasounds/echos. She is not a board certififed cardiologist,
                      however. We initially saw her but eventually brought Gus to Angell
                      Memorial in Boston for a 2nd op. We live in southern Maine and it's
                      about 50 miles for us. I know that is probably too far for your
                      kitty but they are really great there if you can make the trip.
                      Maybe, like Diane said, you could call them and speak to them about
                      your situation and see what they suggest.

                      Also, I know of a vet hospital in Stratham, NH that does have its
                      own ultrasound machine and they send the results to a cardiologist
                      for interpretation. That might be another closer option.

                      Also, Angell does have payment plans and actually we find their
                      prices very reasonable.

                      Good luck to you & your kitty,

                      Steph, Gus & Louise
                      www.gussielou.com

                      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "kittyluva12"
                      <kittyluva12@y...> wrote:
                      > No,I dont beleive we have a traveling cardiologist in NH.Even if
                      we
                      > did have a traveling cardiologist I am sure his prices would be
                      VERY
                      > high and i dont know if you read my earlier posts but i am running
                      a
                      > rescue and dont have alot of money to spare.Thank you anyways for
                      you
                      > input.
                    • Marja van Die
                      Hi Pam, Thank you for telling me your story about Maggie. I have been having this feeling that if only she, my cat, wouldnt have this big belly she would be
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 4 12:11 PM
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                        Hi Pam,
                        Thank you for telling me your story about Maggie. I have been having this feeling that if only she, my cat, wouldnt have this big belly she would be so much better! She has been sick and troubled for months now, we found what caused it and dealt with it and the future looked bright, then suddenly her heart started to play up. I feel that after fighting for so long and so hard, she deserves at least a few weeks feeling fairly good.
                        I have been giving her medicine to get rid of the fluids, and have doubled the dose but still it isn't working as well as we hoped. I need a few days to let it all sink in, I am thinking now of visiting the vet with my cat and tell the vet what I have learned from all the information I find online. The coming days I will double the medicine again, although they are bad for her kidneys. I was told that when my cat stopped eating and drinking it was time to end her life too. Your story confirms what I have learned all this time my cat as been ill, you as a caretaker have to stay contantly on top of things.
                        Thank you for your kind words, and will ofcause keep you posted on what goes on .
                        Marja and a big hug from Suteruni



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                      • Debbie Raikes-May
                        Dear Marja You know your cat best. She relies on you and I am sure you will do the right thing for her. Thinking of you Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr ... From:
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 4 12:28 PM
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                          Dear Marja

                          You know your cat best. She relies on you and I am sure you will do the right thing for her.
                          Thinking of you
                          Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Marja van Die
                          To: Pam.Vojtas@...
                          Cc: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:11 PM
                          Subject: RE: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                          Hi Pam,
                          Thank you for telling me your story about Maggie. I have been having this feeling that if only she, my cat, wouldnt have this big belly she would be so much better! She has been sick and troubled for months now, we found what caused it and dealt with it and the future looked bright, then suddenly her heart started to play up. I feel that after fighting for so long and so hard, she deserves at least a few weeks feeling fairly good.
                          I have been giving her medicine to get rid of the fluids, and have doubled the dose but still it isn't working as well as we hoped. I need a few days to let it all sink in, I am thinking now of visiting the vet with my cat and tell the vet what I have learned from all the information I find online. The coming days I will double the medicine again, although they are bad for her kidneys. I was told that when my cat stopped eating and drinking it was time to end her life too. Your story confirms what I have learned all this time my cat as been ill, you as a caretaker have to stay contantly on top of things.
                          Thank you for your kind words, and will ofcause keep you posted on what goes on .
                          Marja and a big hug from Suteruni



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                        • Marja van Die
                          Hi Debbie, Thanks so much for giving me more confidence. My cats name is Suteruni, I first heard of that name in New Zealand, where I was on holiday and my
                          Message 12 of 20 , Apr 4 12:40 PM
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                            Hi Debbie,
                            Thanks so much for giving me more confidence. My cats name is Suteruni, I first heard of that name in New Zealand, where I was on holiday and my aunt had a black cat with that name and I thought it was beautiful and decided if I should ever have a black cat, I would name her Suteruni. Years later I chose this skinny black kitten from a nest with many others. Well I thought she was cute but when I see old pics, she was ugly really, big bold spots from flea bites on her body. She grew up to be a beautifull shiny black cat, very communitave with me and became my best friend :-)
                            Sut has been having health problems for 1 1/2 years now and I have found that even vets don't want to bother to do much for a cat with that age. I get information from internet and use that. I read here that draining is a possibilty but no way any vet sugested it yet.
                            will keep you posted on what happens, thanks again!
                            Marja

                            Debbie Raikes-May <debbie.raikesmay@...> wrote: Dear Marja
                            Your English is fine, a lot better than my Dutch would be so don't worry.

                            My Girlie Treacle is 15 and she is on Fortekor too. It has really helped her. Has your vet put your cat on diuretics?
                            These are to make her wee /pee the fluid out...it has worked very well on Treacle. A drainage like you describe is sometimes done too but I imagine your vet is reluctant because of the bladder infections she has had.

                            The pain you describe she had in her legs sounds like a blood clot which can happen. It is very painful for the cat. Has your vet put her on any anti clotting drug like a VERY small dose of aspirin?
                            DON'T EVER GIVE HER THIS YOURSELF sorry to shout - but it is very poisonous to cats and has to be given in tiny amounts and under prescription.

                            I hope this helps a bit. Ask lots of questions....many people here know lots and lots.
                            Let us know how she is...what is her name?
                            And don't let being 17 deter you. Someone here had a kitty of 19 who only went to the stars last week, God bless her.
                            Love and jeep posting
                            Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Marja van Die
                            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                            Cc: sallymerlin@...
                            Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:30 PM
                            Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                            Hi :-)
                            Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I am having the same problems with my cat I think.
                            First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
                            I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has been on a diet for a while now.
                            All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy, thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is real bad for her kidneys.
                            The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel so much better.
                            I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
                            I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is time for me to let her go?
                            greetings
                            Marja


                            "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@...> wrote:Hi there,

                            I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a good
                            place of support.

                            My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When he got
                            to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
                            cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it quite
                            successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid in
                            the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to deal
                            with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and around the
                            lungs because it can be drained manually.

                            You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's condition.
                            Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to the
                            drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but hang
                            in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids manually
                            drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF kitties
                            often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually helps
                            keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully and
                            with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require anesthesia,
                            unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the vets...your
                            vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
                            afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
                            precaution.

                            The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
                            efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping th
                            ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
                            lactulose!

                            Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
                            months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had over 7
                            glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end he did
                            pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day we
                            were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this group
                            helped so much.

                            Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!

                            Sally and Angel Muffin


                            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
                            wrote:
                            > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
                            > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he was
                            > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him mildly
                            > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that Figero
                            > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to help as
                            > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
                            before?
                            > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
                            > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any info
                            on
                            > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like to
                            know
                            > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be done
                            > about it.Thank you


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                          • Susan
                            ... Marja, The only thing I found particular to atenolol and aortic stenosis using Google is a case study pertaining to a dog. It recommends: a Holter monitor
                            Message 13 of 20 , Apr 4 1:07 PM
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                              --- Marja van Die <suteruni@...> wrote:

                              Marja,

                              The only thing I found particular to atenolol and
                              aortic stenosis using Google is a case study
                              pertaining to a dog. It recommends:

                              a Holter monitor is recommended. Discontinue Lasix.
                              Exercise restriction is recommended.


                              http://www.vmth.ucdavis.edu/cardio/cases/case4/casediscuss.htm

                              The vet is Mark D. Kittleson who wrote Small Animal
                              Cardiovascular Medicine. Perhaps you could email him.
                              I get the impression that subaortic stenosis is rather
                              rare so many vets may have little experience treating
                              it.

                              Susan


                              >
                              > Hi Pam,
                              > Thank you for telling me your story about Maggie. I
                              > have been having this feeling that if only she, my
                              > cat, wouldnt have this big belly she would be so
                              > much better! She has been sick and troubled for
                              > months now, we found what caused it and dealt with
                              > it and the future looked bright, then suddenly her
                              > heart started to play up. I feel that after fighting
                              > for so long and so hard, she deserves at least a few
                              > weeks feeling fairly good.
                              > I have been giving her medicine to get rid of the
                              > fluids, and have doubled the dose but still it isn't
                              > working as well as we hoped. I need a few days to
                              > let it all sink in, I am thinking now of visiting
                              > the vet with my cat and tell the vet what I have
                              > learned from all the information I find online. The
                              > coming days I will double the medicine again,
                              > although they are bad for her kidneys. I was told
                              > that when my cat stopped eating and drinking it was
                              > time to end her life too. Your story confirms what I
                              > have learned all this time my cat as been ill, you
                              > as a caretaker have to stay contantly on top of
                              > things.
                              > Thank you for your kind words, and will ofcause keep
                              > you posted on what goes on .
                              > Marja and a big hug from Suteruni
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ---------------------------------
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                            • Carol Thompson
                              Susan, thanks so much for the reference on subaortic stenosis and atenolol. (Actually, it is Clipsie rather than Marja s kitty that has the subaortic
                              Message 14 of 20 , Apr 4 2:21 PM
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                                Susan, thanks so much for the reference on subaortic stenosis and atenolol. (Actually, it is Clipsie rather than Marja's kitty that has the subaortic stenosis. It is hard to keep everyone straight.)

                                I was glad to see this in that atenolol is what Clipsie was initially given as this author recommends for dogs -- so it confirms the initial treatment. When she was first diagnosed, the cardiologist said that if Clipsie were a dog, her condition would be considered "moderate" on a scale of mild, moderate, severe -- but that it is so rare in cats that there is no data on it so we're not sure of the relative severity. She doesn't have any symptoms, though. And as it turns out, the cardiologist that will be seeing her when we go back on April 28 also has done extensive research on subaortic stenosis in dogs. (In contrast to lots of you who have to travel many hours and miles (or kilometers) to get to a cardiologist, I am extremely fortunately to live within 20 minutes of a specialty practice and a vet school, each of which has more than one board-certified cardiologist. I count my blessings in that regard!) I just checked the Web site of the specialty practice we go to and they do have Holter monitors available if needed. So far Clipsie hasn't had any fluid buildup so no Lasix at the moment. We'll just be taking things one step at a time.

                                Thanks again for your help!

                                Carol and Clipsie (and Charlie and angels Blizzard, Simba, and Max)

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Susan
                                To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 4:07 PM
                                Subject: RE: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                                --- Marja van Die <suteruni@...> wrote:

                                Marja,

                                The only thing I found particular to atenolol and
                                aortic stenosis using Google is a case study
                                pertaining to a dog. It recommends:

                                a Holter monitor is recommended. Discontinue Lasix.
                                Exercise restriction is recommended.


                                http://www.vmth.ucdavis.edu/cardio/cases/case4/casediscuss.htm

                                The vet is Mark D. Kittleson who wrote Small Animal
                                Cardiovascular Medicine. Perhaps you could email him.
                                I get the impression that subaortic stenosis is rather
                                rare so many vets may have little experience treating
                                it.

                                Susan


                                >
                                > Hi Pam,
                                > Thank you for telling me your story about Maggie. I
                                > have been having this feeling that if only she, my
                                > cat, wouldnt have this big belly she would be so
                                > much better! She has been sick and troubled for
                                > months now, we found what caused it and dealt with
                                > it and the future looked bright, then suddenly her
                                > heart started to play up. I feel that after fighting
                                > for so long and so hard, she deserves at least a few
                                > weeks feeling fairly good.
                                > I have been giving her medicine to get rid of the
                                > fluids, and have doubled the dose but still it isn't
                                > working as well as we hoped. I need a few days to
                                > let it all sink in, I am thinking now of visiting
                                > the vet with my cat and tell the vet what I have
                                > learned from all the information I find online. The
                                > coming days I will double the medicine again,
                                > although they are bad for her kidneys. I was told
                                > that when my cat stopped eating and drinking it was
                                > time to end her life too. Your story confirms what I
                                > have learned all this time my cat as been ill, you
                                > as a caretaker have to stay contantly on top of
                                > things.
                                > Thank you for your kind words, and will ofcause keep
                                > you posted on what goes on .
                                > Marja and a big hug from Suteruni
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                              • bcowell
                                Marja, I think it is so sad when vets think that when a cat is old it is not worth trying to save. A bit like some doctors that tell an elderly person that
                                Message 15 of 20 , Apr 4 4:07 PM
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                                  Marja,
                                  I think it is so sad when vets think that when a cat is old it is not
                                  worth trying to save. A bit like some doctors that tell an elderly
                                  person that they are just getting old and must expect not to feel so
                                  great, instead of searching for the cause of illness. It still
                                  happens and it is so wrong! Suteruni deserves to have the best chance
                                  to live and be happy, I wonder if you call phone a few more vets and
                                  see if any had a more positive attitude to treating a more mature cat?
                                  Best of luck,
                                  Brigitte


                                  --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Marja van Die <suteruni@y...>
                                  wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Hi Debbie,
                                  > Thanks so much for giving me more confidence. My cats name is
                                  Suteruni, I first heard of that name in New Zealand, where I was on
                                  holiday and my aunt had a black cat with that name and I thought it
                                  was beautiful and decided if I should ever have a black cat, I would
                                  name her Suteruni. Years later I chose this skinny black kitten from
                                  a nest with many others. Well I thought she was cute but when I see
                                  old pics, she was ugly really, big bold spots from flea bites on her
                                  body. She grew up to be a beautifull shiny black cat, very
                                  communitave with me and became my best friend :-)
                                  > Sut has been having health problems for 1 1/2 years now and I have
                                  found that even vets don't want to bother to do much for a cat with
                                  that age. I get information from internet and use that. I read here
                                  that draining is a possibilty but no way any vet sugested it yet.
                                  > will keep you posted on what happens, thanks again!
                                  > Marja
                                  >
                                  > Debbie Raikes-May <debbie.raikesmay@d...> wrote: Dear Marja
                                  > Your English is fine, a lot better than my Dutch would be so don't
                                  worry.
                                  >
                                  > My Girlie Treacle is 15 and she is on Fortekor too. It has really
                                  helped her. Has your vet put your cat on diuretics?
                                  > These are to make her wee /pee the fluid out...it has worked very
                                  well on Treacle. A drainage like you describe is sometimes done too
                                  but I imagine your vet is reluctant because of the bladder infections
                                  she has had.
                                  >
                                  > The pain you describe she had in her legs sounds like a blood clot
                                  which can happen. It is very painful for the cat. Has your vet put
                                  her on any anti clotting drug like a VERY small dose of aspirin?
                                  > DON'T EVER GIVE HER THIS YOURSELF sorry to shout - but it is very
                                  poisonous to cats and has to be given in tiny amounts and under
                                  prescription.
                                  >
                                  > I hope this helps a bit. Ask lots of questions....many people here
                                  know lots and lots.
                                  > Let us know how she is...what is her name?
                                  > And don't let being 17 deter you. Someone here had a kitty of 19
                                  who only went to the stars last week, God bless her.
                                  > Love and jeep posting
                                  > Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr
                                  > ----- Original Message -----
                                  > From: Marja van Die
                                  > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                  > Cc: sallymerlin@y...
                                  > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:30 PM
                                  > Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Hi :-)
                                  > Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I
                                  am having the same problems with my cat I think.
                                  > First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont
                                  speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a
                                  simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
                                  > I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first
                                  started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and
                                  they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she
                                  crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and
                                  falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet
                                  said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking
                                  fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has
                                  had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken
                                  out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder
                                  infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has
                                  been on a diet for a while now.
                                  > All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she
                                  hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was
                                  wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks
                                  ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy,
                                  thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is
                                  holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee
                                  more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is
                                  real bad for her kidneys.
                                  > The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is
                                  not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids
                                  out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not
                                  without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard
                                  to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me
                                  because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel
                                  so much better.
                                  > I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she
                                  would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
                                  > I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all
                                  she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling
                                  pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is
                                  time for me to let her go?
                                  > greetings
                                  > Marja
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@y...> wrote:Hi there,
                                  >
                                  > I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a
                                  good
                                  > place of support.
                                  >
                                  > My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When
                                  he got
                                  > to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
                                  > cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it
                                  quite
                                  > successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid
                                  in
                                  > the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to
                                  deal
                                  > with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and
                                  around the
                                  > lungs because it can be drained manually.
                                  >
                                  > You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's
                                  condition.
                                  > Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to
                                  the
                                  > drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but
                                  hang
                                  > in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids
                                  manually
                                  > drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF
                                  kitties
                                  > often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually
                                  helps
                                  > keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully
                                  and
                                  > with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require
                                  anesthesia,
                                  > unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the
                                  vets...your
                                  > vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
                                  > afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
                                  > precaution.
                                  >
                                  > The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
                                  > efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping
                                  th
                                  > ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
                                  > lactulose!
                                  >
                                  > Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
                                  > months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had
                                  over 7
                                  > glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end
                                  he did
                                  > pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day
                                  we
                                  > were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this
                                  group
                                  > helped so much.
                                  >
                                  > Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!
                                  >
                                  > Sally and Angel Muffin
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
                                  > > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he
                                  was
                                  > > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him
                                  mildly
                                  > > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that
                                  Figero
                                  > > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to
                                  help as
                                  > > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
                                  > before?
                                  > > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
                                  > > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any
                                  info
                                  > on
                                  > > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like
                                  to
                                  > know
                                  > > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be
                                  done
                                  > > about it.Thank you
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • diane
                                  I have found the attitude of vets to make all the difference in the world. They differ even within the practice I go to but they are all very good about not
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Apr 4 5:59 PM
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                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    I have found the attitude of vets to make all the difference in the
                                    world. They differ even within the practice I go to but they are all
                                    very good about not going against what one has started for treatment
                                    (as least to us, the customers <G>)

                                    My vet is very pro-active and when one of our cats gets sick she says
                                    "this is what you are going to do". She does it with such conviction
                                    that I have to step back and think "Ok, so do I want to do this?". I
                                    always do. But she pulls no punches, when it's bad I know it. <sigh>

                                    Anyway, often a vet who feels the pet is too old or doomed or
                                    whatever, will not try treatments another vet will take for granted.
                                    So another vet may do wonders.


                                    Diane



                                    >Marja,
                                    >I think it is so sad when vets think that when a cat is old it is not
                                    >worth trying to save. A bit like some doctors that tell an elderly
                                    >person that they are just getting old and must expect not to feel so
                                    >great, instead of searching for the cause of illness. It still
                                    >happens and it is so wrong! Suteruni deserves to have the best chance
                                    >to live and be happy, I wonder if you call phone a few more vets and
                                    >see if any had a more positive attitude to treating a more mature cat?
                                    >Best of luck,
                                    >Brigitte
                                  • Debbie Raikes-May
                                    ... From: Marja van Die To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com Cc: debbie.raikesmay@dial.pipex.com Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Apr 5 7:40 AM
                                    View Source
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Marja van Die
                                      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                      Cc: debbie.raikesmay@...
                                      Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:40 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                                      Hi Debbie,
                                      Thanks so much for giving me more confidence. My cats name is Suteruni, I first heard of that name in New Zealand, where I was on holiday and my aunt had a black cat with that name and I thought it was beautiful and decided if I should ever have a black cat, I would name her Suteruni. Years later I chose this skinny black kitten from a nest with many others. Well I thought she was cute but when I see old pics, she was ugly really, big bold spots from flea bites on her body. She grew up to be a beautifull shiny black cat, very communitave with me and became my best friend :-)
                                      Sut has been having health problems for 1 1/2 years now and I have found that even vets don't want to bother to do much for a cat with that age. I get information from internet and use that. I read here that draining is a possibilty but no way any vet sugested it yet.
                                      will keep you posted on what happens, thanks again!
                                      Marja

                                      Debbie Raikes-May <debbie.raikesmay@...> wrote: Dear Marja
                                      Your English is fine, a lot better than my Dutch would be so don't worry.

                                      My Girlie Treacle is 15 and she is on Fortekor too. It has really helped her. Has your vet put your cat on diuretics?
                                      These are to make her wee /pee the fluid out...it has worked very well on Treacle. A drainage like you describe is sometimes done too but I imagine your vet is reluctant because of the bladder infections she has had.

                                      The pain you describe she had in her legs sounds like a blood clot which can happen. It is very painful for the cat. Has your vet put her on any anti clotting drug like a VERY small dose of aspirin?
                                      DON'T EVER GIVE HER THIS YOURSELF sorry to shout - but it is very poisonous to cats and has to be given in tiny amounts and under prescription.

                                      I hope this helps a bit. Ask lots of questions....many people here know lots and lots.
                                      Let us know how she is...what is her name?
                                      And don't let being 17 deter you. Someone here had a kitty of 19 who only went to the stars last week, God bless her.
                                      Love and jeep posting
                                      Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Marja van Die
                                      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                      Cc: sallymerlin@...
                                      Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:30 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                                      Hi :-)
                                      Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I am having the same problems with my cat I think.
                                      First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
                                      I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has been on a diet for a while now.
                                      All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy, thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is real bad for her kidneys.
                                      The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel so much better.
                                      I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
                                      I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is time for me to let her go?
                                      greetings
                                      Marja


                                      "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@...> wrote:Hi there,

                                      I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a good
                                      place of support.

                                      My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When he got
                                      to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
                                      cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it quite
                                      successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid in
                                      the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to deal
                                      with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and around the
                                      lungs because it can be drained manually.

                                      You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's condition.
                                      Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to the
                                      drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but hang
                                      in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids manually
                                      drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF kitties
                                      often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually helps
                                      keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully and
                                      with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require anesthesia,
                                      unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the vets...your
                                      vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
                                      afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
                                      precaution.

                                      The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
                                      efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping th
                                      ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
                                      lactulose!

                                      Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
                                      months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had over 7
                                      glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end he did
                                      pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day we
                                      were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this group
                                      helped so much.

                                      Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!

                                      Sally and Angel Muffin


                                      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
                                      wrote:
                                      > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
                                      > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he was
                                      > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him mildly
                                      > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that Figero
                                      > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to help as
                                      > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
                                      before?
                                      > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
                                      > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any info
                                      on
                                      > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like to
                                      know
                                      > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be done
                                      > about it.Thank you


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                                    • Debbie Raikes-May
                                      Hi Marja I am so pleased you feel a bit better as our cats pick up on our feelings. You are right totally not to give up on her. Just because sheis a senior
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Apr 5 7:48 AM
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                                        Hi Marja
                                        I am so pleased you feel a bit better as our cats pick up on our feelings. You are right totally not to give up on her. Just because sheis a senior does not mean she is worth any less effort. Boo to your vet!
                                        love Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr-- Original Message -----
                                        From: Marja van Die
                                        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                        Cc: debbie.raikesmay@...
                                        Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:40 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                                        Hi Debbie,
                                        Thanks so much for giving me more confidence. My cats name is Suteruni, I first heard of that name in New Zealand, where I was on holiday and my aunt had a black cat with that name and I thought it was beautiful and decided if I should ever have a black cat, I would name her Suteruni. Years later I chose this skinny black kitten from a nest with many others. Well I thought she was cute but when I see old pics, she was ugly really, big bold spots from flea bites on her body. She grew up to be a beautifull shiny black cat, very communitave with me and became my best friend :-)
                                        Sut has been having health problems for 1 1/2 years now and I have found that even vets don't want to bother to do much for a cat with that age. I get information from internet and use that. I read here that draining is a possibilty but no way any vet sugested it yet.
                                        will keep you posted on what happens, thanks again!
                                        Marja

                                        Debbie Raikes-May <debbie.raikesmay@...> wrote: Dear Marja
                                        Your English is fine, a lot better than my Dutch would be so don't worry.

                                        My Girlie Treacle is 15 and she is on Fortekor too. It has really helped her. Has your vet put your cat on diuretics?
                                        These are to make her wee /pee the fluid out...it has worked very well on Treacle. A drainage like you describe is sometimes done too but I imagine your vet is reluctant because of the bladder infections she has had.

                                        The pain you describe she had in her legs sounds like a blood clot which can happen. It is very painful for the cat. Has your vet put her on any anti clotting drug like a VERY small dose of aspirin?
                                        DON'T EVER GIVE HER THIS YOURSELF sorry to shout - but it is very poisonous to cats and has to be given in tiny amounts and under prescription.

                                        I hope this helps a bit. Ask lots of questions....many people here know lots and lots.
                                        Let us know how she is...what is her name?
                                        And don't let being 17 deter you. Someone here had a kitty of 19 who only went to the stars last week, God bless her.
                                        Love and jeep posting
                                        Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr
                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: Marja van Die
                                        To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                        Cc: sallymerlin@...
                                        Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:30 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                                        Hi :-)
                                        Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I am having the same problems with my cat I think.
                                        First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
                                        I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has been on a diet for a while now.
                                        All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy, thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is real bad for her kidneys.
                                        The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel so much better.
                                        I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
                                        I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is time for me to let her go?
                                        greetings
                                        Marja


                                        "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@...> wrote:Hi there,

                                        I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a good
                                        place of support.

                                        My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When he got
                                        to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
                                        cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it quite
                                        successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid in
                                        the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to deal
                                        with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and around the
                                        lungs because it can be drained manually.

                                        You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's condition.
                                        Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to the
                                        drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but hang
                                        in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids manually
                                        drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF kitties
                                        often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually helps
                                        keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully and
                                        with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require anesthesia,
                                        unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the vets...your
                                        vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
                                        afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
                                        precaution.

                                        The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
                                        efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping th
                                        ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
                                        lactulose!

                                        Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
                                        months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had over 7
                                        glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end he did
                                        pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day we
                                        were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this group
                                        helped so much.

                                        Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!

                                        Sally and Angel Muffin


                                        --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
                                        wrote:
                                        > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
                                        > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he was
                                        > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him mildly
                                        > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that Figero
                                        > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to help as
                                        > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
                                        before?
                                        > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
                                        > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any info
                                        on
                                        > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like to
                                        know
                                        > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be done
                                        > about it.Thank you


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