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Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure

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  • Debbie Raikes-May
    Hi I don t know very much but what I do I will gladly share. The fluid is building up because his heart is not pumping properly. The fluid build up puts strain
    Message 1 of 20 , Apr 1, 2003
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      Hi
      I don't know very much but what I do I will gladly share.
      The fluid is building up because his heart is not pumping properly. The fluid build up puts strain on his breathing and stress on his kidneys.
      A diuretic is often used to make a cat wee more so the fluid can be expelled or, if it is severe, a manual, surgical drainage is performed which brings relief.
      Treacle is 15 and on diuretics, I wasn't keen on her having manual drainage and luckily it hasn't come to that (yet)
      Do you know what the exact problem is with his heart?
      Love
      Debbie and Treacle and Kippurrrr
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: hkkozera
      To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 3:51 AM
      Subject: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure


      Has Figero had an ultrasound by a cardiologist to
      determine what is wrong with his heart?


      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
      wrote:
      > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
      > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he was
      > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him mildly
      > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that
      Figero
      > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to help
      as
      > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
      before?
      > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
      > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any info
      on
      > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like to
      know
      > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be done
      > about it.Thank you


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    • kittyluva12
      Figero has a Severe heart murmur is all i was told.My vet said he is surprised figero lived this long with such a severe heart murmur and that he will just
      Message 2 of 20 , Apr 1, 2003
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        Figero has a Severe heart murmur is all i was told.My vet said he is
        surprised figero lived this long with such a severe heart murmur and
        that he will just waste away and die.Figero has severe muscle loss
        which i think makes his stomach look bigger also.Does anyone know the
        Price range for this kind of procedure(the draining)or of the cheapest
        (effective)medicine for fluid buildup?I run a rescue so We dont have
        tons of money to spend, we have 14 other cats to take care of.I love
        figero and want to do everything i can for him without Risking not
        having enough money to pay for a emergency vet visit for one of the
        other 13.Thank you again for any Info you might have.

        P.S
        this is rutebaga13
      • Debbie Raikes-May
        I don t know what the USA price would be, in the UK I think it is about £40. I understand your money issue - how old is he? if at all possible please try and
        Message 3 of 20 , Apr 2, 2003
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          I don't know what the USA price would be, in the UK I think it is about £40.
          I understand your money issue - how old is he? if at all possible please try and find the funds for him as cats can have a good prgnosis despite the immediate gloom of this vet. Diuretics are cheaper and can help but it really depends on how much fluid you are talking about.
          I wish you both love and luck
          Debbie, Treacle and Kipppurrr
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: kittyluva12
          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2003 10:23 PM
          Subject: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure


          Figero has a Severe heart murmur is all i was told.My vet said he is
          surprised figero lived this long with such a severe heart murmur and
          that he will just waste away and die.Figero has severe muscle loss
          which i think makes his stomach look bigger also.Does anyone know the
          Price range for this kind of procedure(the draining)or of the cheapest
          (effective)medicine for fluid buildup?I run a rescue so We dont have
          tons of money to spend, we have 14 other cats to take care of.I love
          figero and want to do everything i can for him without Risking not
          having enough money to pay for a emergency vet visit for one of the
          other 13.Thank you again for any Info you might have.

          P.S
          this is rutebaga13


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        • Debbie Raikes-May
          Dear Marja Your English is fine, a lot better than my Dutch would be so don t worry. My Girlie Treacle is 15 and she is on Fortekor too. It has really helped
          Message 4 of 20 , Apr 3, 2003
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            Dear Marja
            Your English is fine, a lot better than my Dutch would be so don't worry.

            My Girlie Treacle is 15 and she is on Fortekor too. It has really helped her. Has your vet put your cat on diuretics?
            These are to make her wee /pee the fluid out...it has worked very well on Treacle. A drainage like you describe is sometimes done too but I imagine your vet is reluctant because of the bladder infections she has had.

            The pain you describe she had in her legs sounds like a blood clot which can happen. It is very painful for the cat. Has your vet put her on any anti clotting drug like a VERY small dose of aspirin?
            DON'T EVER GIVE HER THIS YOURSELF sorry to shout - but it is very poisonous to cats and has to be given in tiny amounts and under prescription.

            I hope this helps a bit. Ask lots of questions....many people here know lots and lots.
            Let us know how she is...what is her name?
            And don't let being 17 deter you. Someone here had a kitty of 19 who only went to the stars last week, God bless her.
            Love and jeep posting
            Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Marja van Die
            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
            Cc: sallymerlin@...
            Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:30 PM
            Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



            Hi :-)
            Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I am having the same problems with my cat I think.
            First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
            I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has been on a diet for a while now.
            All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy, thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is real bad for her kidneys.
            The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel so much better.
            I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
            I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is time for me to let her go?
            greetings
            Marja


            "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@...> wrote:Hi there,

            I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a good
            place of support.

            My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When he got
            to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
            cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it quite
            successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid in
            the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to deal
            with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and around the
            lungs because it can be drained manually.

            You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's condition.
            Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to the
            drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but hang
            in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids manually
            drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF kitties
            often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually helps
            keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully and
            with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require anesthesia,
            unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the vets...your
            vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
            afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
            precaution.

            The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
            efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping th
            ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
            lactulose!

            Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
            months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had over 7
            glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end he did
            pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day we
            were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this group
            helped so much.

            Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!

            Sally and Angel Muffin


            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
            wrote:
            > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
            > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he was
            > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him mildly
            > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that Figero
            > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to help as
            > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
            before?
            > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
            > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any info
            on
            > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like to
            know
            > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be done
            > about it.Thank you


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          • Debbie Raikes-May
            Sorry...I just read that she IS on drugs to make her pee.if they have taken her off these then yes...ask your vet why she is reluctant to drain...it would make
            Message 5 of 20 , Apr 3, 2003
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              Sorry...I just read that she IS on drugs to make her pee.if they have taken her off these then yes...ask your vet why she is reluctant to drain...it would make her feel a lot better.
              And you too I am sure!
              Debbie
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: Marja van Die
              To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
              Cc: sallymerlin@...
              Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:30 PM
              Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



              Hi :-)
              Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I am having the same problems with my cat I think.
              First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
              I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has been on a diet for a while now.
              All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy, thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is real bad for her kidneys.
              The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel so much better.
              I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
              I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is time for me to let her go?
              greetings
              Marja


              "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@...> wrote:Hi there,

              I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a good
              place of support.

              My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When he got
              to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
              cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it quite
              successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid in
              the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to deal
              with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and around the
              lungs because it can be drained manually.

              You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's condition.
              Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to the
              drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but hang
              in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids manually
              drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF kitties
              often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually helps
              keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully and
              with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require anesthesia,
              unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the vets...your
              vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
              afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
              precaution.

              The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
              efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping th
              ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
              lactulose!

              Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
              months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had over 7
              glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end he did
              pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day we
              were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this group
              helped so much.

              Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!

              Sally and Angel Muffin


              --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
              wrote:
              > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
              > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he was
              > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him mildly
              > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that Figero
              > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to help as
              > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
              before?
              > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
              > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any info
              on
              > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like to
              know
              > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be done
              > about it.Thank you


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            • kittyluva12
              Hi me again!Again thanks for all your help so far but I have another question.I live in Manchester,NH and as far as veterinary care goes were not too up to
              Message 6 of 20 , Apr 3, 2003
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                Hi me again!Again thanks for all your help so far but I have another
                question.I live in Manchester,NH and as far as veterinary care goes
                were not too up to date.Their are no Feline cardiologists near me at
                all,the closest one is 30 or so miles from me and Figero can't take a
                long car trip.Figero already gets stressed out in the 2 minutes it
                takes us to get to the vet now.I am going to my regular vet on
                saturday and was wondering if there is anything i should be aware of?
                My regular vet is not a cardiologist and doesnt know very much about
                heart problems.Also is their any particular medicines(diuretics)that
                anyone could suggest?Figero seems to take lasix alright but it does
                not seem to work as well as it once did.Figero is only 11 years old
                and was always in the peak of health before this so I really want to
                do everything within my power(and my bank account)to help him get
                better.One last thing has anyone else noticed that cats with heart
                issues get upper-respiratory Infections more often?Do cats with heart
                issues have a lowered immune system?Thanks again for all your help.

                P.S You can see a picture of Figero(and my other babys)
                in My photo album.My photo album is called "Jessicas Cats"
              • barbara
                Don t let go. Sometimes they need us to hold on for them when they are too tired to do it for themselves, until they get more strength. Maybe you should get
                Message 7 of 20 , Apr 3, 2003
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                  Don't let go. Sometimes they need us to hold on for them when they are too tired to do it for themselves, until they get more strength. Maybe you should get a second opinion. My Freddie Mon has fluid around his heart, in all his cavities and the doctor said draining it could be dangerous at his age. However, he did put him on lasix which is a diuretic and hellps flush out the excess fluid. Ask about it. Keep on holding on, don't give up on her. Barbara and the KittyBabies
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Marja van Die
                  To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                  Cc: sallymerlin@...
                  Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 1:30 PM
                  Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                  Hi :-)
                  Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I am having the same problems with my cat I think.
                  First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
                  I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has been on a diet for a while now.
                  All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy, thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is real bad for her kidneys.
                  The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel so much better.
                  I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
                  I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is time for me to let her go?
                  greetings
                  Marja


                  "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@...> wrote:Hi there,

                  I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a good
                  place of support.

                  My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When he got
                  to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
                  cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it quite
                  successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid in
                  the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to deal
                  with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and around the
                  lungs because it can be drained manually.

                  You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's condition.
                  Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to the
                  drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but hang
                  in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids manually
                  drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF kitties
                  often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually helps
                  keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully and
                  with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require anesthesia,
                  unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the vets...your
                  vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
                  afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
                  precaution.

                  The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
                  efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping th
                  ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
                  lactulose!

                  Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
                  months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had over 7
                  glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end he did
                  pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day we
                  were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this group
                  helped so much.

                  Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!

                  Sally and Angel Muffin


                  --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
                  wrote:
                  > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
                  > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he was
                  > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him mildly
                  > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that Figero
                  > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to help as
                  > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
                  before?
                  > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
                  > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any info
                  on
                  > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like to
                  know
                  > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be done
                  > about it.Thank you


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                • diane
                  Can your vet have a cardiologist come to them (or even your home?) We have travelling cardiologists here in Ct Diane
                  Message 8 of 20 , Apr 3, 2003
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                    Can your vet have a cardiologist come to them (or even your home?)

                    We have travelling cardiologists here in Ct


                    Diane


                    > Hi me again!Again thanks for all your help so far but I have another
                    >question.I live in Manchester,NH and as far as veterinary care goes
                    >were not too up to date.Their are no Feline cardiologists near me at
                    >all,the closest one is 30 or so miles from me and Figero can't take a
                    >long car trip.Figero already gets stressed out in the 2 minutes it
                    >takes us to get to the vet now.I am going to my regular vet on
                    >saturday and was wondering if there is anything i should be aware of?
                    >My regular vet is not a cardiologist and doesnt know very much about
                    >heart problems.Also is their any particular medicines(diuretics)that
                    >anyone could suggest?Figero seems to take lasix alright but it does
                    >not seem to work as well as it once did.Figero is only 11 years old
                    >and was always in the peak of health before this so I really want to
                    >do everything within my power(and my bank account)to help him get
                    >better.One last thing has anyone else noticed that cats with heart
                    >issues get upper-respiratory Infections more often?Do cats with heart
                    >issues have a lowered immune system?Thanks again for all your help.
                    >
                    > P.S You can see a picture of Figero(and my other babys)
                    >in My photo album.My photo album is called "Jessicas Cats"
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                    >feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  • kittyluva12
                    No,I dont beleive we have a traveling cardiologist in NH.Even if we did have a traveling cardiologist I am sure his prices would be VERY high and i dont know
                    Message 9 of 20 , Apr 3, 2003
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                      No,I dont beleive we have a traveling cardiologist in NH.Even if we
                      did have a traveling cardiologist I am sure his prices would be VERY
                      high and i dont know if you read my earlier posts but i am running a
                      rescue and dont have alot of money to spare.Thank you anyways for you
                      input.
                    • diane
                      I would call Tufts or Agnel in Boston and see what they say. I think many places have traveling cardiologists, and you aren t in a very remote part of NH. :)
                      Message 10 of 20 , Apr 3, 2003
                      • 0 Attachment
                        I would call Tufts or Agnel in Boston and see what they say. I think
                        many places have traveling cardiologists, and you aren't in a very
                        remote part of NH. :)

                        I can well understand the money issues


                        Diane


                        > No,I dont beleive we have a traveling cardiologist in NH.Even if we
                        >did have a traveling cardiologist I am sure his prices would be VERY
                        >high and i dont know if you read my earlier posts but i am running a
                        >rescue and dont have alot of money to spare.Thank you anyways for you
                        >input.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                        >feline-heart-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
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                        >
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                      • Steph
                        There is a female vet in NH who does travel around & performs ultrasounds/echos. She is not a board certififed cardiologist, however. We initially saw her
                        Message 11 of 20 , Apr 3, 2003
                        • 0 Attachment
                          There is a female vet in NH who does travel around & performs
                          ultrasounds/echos. She is not a board certififed cardiologist,
                          however. We initially saw her but eventually brought Gus to Angell
                          Memorial in Boston for a 2nd op. We live in southern Maine and it's
                          about 50 miles for us. I know that is probably too far for your
                          kitty but they are really great there if you can make the trip.
                          Maybe, like Diane said, you could call them and speak to them about
                          your situation and see what they suggest.

                          Also, I know of a vet hospital in Stratham, NH that does have its
                          own ultrasound machine and they send the results to a cardiologist
                          for interpretation. That might be another closer option.

                          Also, Angell does have payment plans and actually we find their
                          prices very reasonable.

                          Good luck to you & your kitty,

                          Steph, Gus & Louise
                          www.gussielou.com

                          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "kittyluva12"
                          <kittyluva12@y...> wrote:
                          > No,I dont beleive we have a traveling cardiologist in NH.Even if
                          we
                          > did have a traveling cardiologist I am sure his prices would be
                          VERY
                          > high and i dont know if you read my earlier posts but i am running
                          a
                          > rescue and dont have alot of money to spare.Thank you anyways for
                          you
                          > input.
                        • Marja van Die
                          Hi Pam, Thank you for telling me your story about Maggie. I have been having this feeling that if only she, my cat, wouldnt have this big belly she would be
                          Message 12 of 20 , Apr 4, 2003
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hi Pam,
                            Thank you for telling me your story about Maggie. I have been having this feeling that if only she, my cat, wouldnt have this big belly she would be so much better! She has been sick and troubled for months now, we found what caused it and dealt with it and the future looked bright, then suddenly her heart started to play up. I feel that after fighting for so long and so hard, she deserves at least a few weeks feeling fairly good.
                            I have been giving her medicine to get rid of the fluids, and have doubled the dose but still it isn't working as well as we hoped. I need a few days to let it all sink in, I am thinking now of visiting the vet with my cat and tell the vet what I have learned from all the information I find online. The coming days I will double the medicine again, although they are bad for her kidneys. I was told that when my cat stopped eating and drinking it was time to end her life too. Your story confirms what I have learned all this time my cat as been ill, you as a caretaker have to stay contantly on top of things.
                            Thank you for your kind words, and will ofcause keep you posted on what goes on .
                            Marja and a big hug from Suteruni



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                          • Debbie Raikes-May
                            Dear Marja You know your cat best. She relies on you and I am sure you will do the right thing for her. Thinking of you Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr ... From:
                            Message 13 of 20 , Apr 4, 2003
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Dear Marja

                              You know your cat best. She relies on you and I am sure you will do the right thing for her.
                              Thinking of you
                              Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Marja van Die
                              To: Pam.Vojtas@...
                              Cc: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:11 PM
                              Subject: RE: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                              Hi Pam,
                              Thank you for telling me your story about Maggie. I have been having this feeling that if only she, my cat, wouldnt have this big belly she would be so much better! She has been sick and troubled for months now, we found what caused it and dealt with it and the future looked bright, then suddenly her heart started to play up. I feel that after fighting for so long and so hard, she deserves at least a few weeks feeling fairly good.
                              I have been giving her medicine to get rid of the fluids, and have doubled the dose but still it isn't working as well as we hoped. I need a few days to let it all sink in, I am thinking now of visiting the vet with my cat and tell the vet what I have learned from all the information I find online. The coming days I will double the medicine again, although they are bad for her kidneys. I was told that when my cat stopped eating and drinking it was time to end her life too. Your story confirms what I have learned all this time my cat as been ill, you as a caretaker have to stay contantly on top of things.
                              Thank you for your kind words, and will ofcause keep you posted on what goes on .
                              Marja and a big hug from Suteruni



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                            • Marja van Die
                              Hi Debbie, Thanks so much for giving me more confidence. My cats name is Suteruni, I first heard of that name in New Zealand, where I was on holiday and my
                              Message 14 of 20 , Apr 4, 2003
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi Debbie,
                                Thanks so much for giving me more confidence. My cats name is Suteruni, I first heard of that name in New Zealand, where I was on holiday and my aunt had a black cat with that name and I thought it was beautiful and decided if I should ever have a black cat, I would name her Suteruni. Years later I chose this skinny black kitten from a nest with many others. Well I thought she was cute but when I see old pics, she was ugly really, big bold spots from flea bites on her body. She grew up to be a beautifull shiny black cat, very communitave with me and became my best friend :-)
                                Sut has been having health problems for 1 1/2 years now and I have found that even vets don't want to bother to do much for a cat with that age. I get information from internet and use that. I read here that draining is a possibilty but no way any vet sugested it yet.
                                will keep you posted on what happens, thanks again!
                                Marja

                                Debbie Raikes-May <debbie.raikesmay@...> wrote: Dear Marja
                                Your English is fine, a lot better than my Dutch would be so don't worry.

                                My Girlie Treacle is 15 and she is on Fortekor too. It has really helped her. Has your vet put your cat on diuretics?
                                These are to make her wee /pee the fluid out...it has worked very well on Treacle. A drainage like you describe is sometimes done too but I imagine your vet is reluctant because of the bladder infections she has had.

                                The pain you describe she had in her legs sounds like a blood clot which can happen. It is very painful for the cat. Has your vet put her on any anti clotting drug like a VERY small dose of aspirin?
                                DON'T EVER GIVE HER THIS YOURSELF sorry to shout - but it is very poisonous to cats and has to be given in tiny amounts and under prescription.

                                I hope this helps a bit. Ask lots of questions....many people here know lots and lots.
                                Let us know how she is...what is her name?
                                And don't let being 17 deter you. Someone here had a kitty of 19 who only went to the stars last week, God bless her.
                                Love and jeep posting
                                Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Marja van Die
                                To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                Cc: sallymerlin@...
                                Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:30 PM
                                Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                                Hi :-)
                                Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I am having the same problems with my cat I think.
                                First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
                                I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has been on a diet for a while now.
                                All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy, thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is real bad for her kidneys.
                                The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel so much better.
                                I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
                                I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is time for me to let her go?
                                greetings
                                Marja


                                "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@...> wrote:Hi there,

                                I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a good
                                place of support.

                                My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When he got
                                to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
                                cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it quite
                                successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid in
                                the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to deal
                                with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and around the
                                lungs because it can be drained manually.

                                You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's condition.
                                Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to the
                                drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but hang
                                in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids manually
                                drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF kitties
                                often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually helps
                                keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully and
                                with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require anesthesia,
                                unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the vets...your
                                vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
                                afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
                                precaution.

                                The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
                                efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping th
                                ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
                                lactulose!

                                Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
                                months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had over 7
                                glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end he did
                                pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day we
                                were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this group
                                helped so much.

                                Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!

                                Sally and Angel Muffin


                                --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
                                wrote:
                                > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
                                > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he was
                                > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him mildly
                                > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that Figero
                                > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to help as
                                > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
                                before?
                                > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
                                > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any info
                                on
                                > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like to
                                know
                                > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be done
                                > about it.Thank you


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                              • Susan
                                ... Marja, The only thing I found particular to atenolol and aortic stenosis using Google is a case study pertaining to a dog. It recommends: a Holter monitor
                                Message 15 of 20 , Apr 4, 2003
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- Marja van Die <suteruni@...> wrote:

                                  Marja,

                                  The only thing I found particular to atenolol and
                                  aortic stenosis using Google is a case study
                                  pertaining to a dog. It recommends:

                                  a Holter monitor is recommended. Discontinue Lasix.
                                  Exercise restriction is recommended.


                                  http://www.vmth.ucdavis.edu/cardio/cases/case4/casediscuss.htm

                                  The vet is Mark D. Kittleson who wrote Small Animal
                                  Cardiovascular Medicine. Perhaps you could email him.
                                  I get the impression that subaortic stenosis is rather
                                  rare so many vets may have little experience treating
                                  it.

                                  Susan


                                  >
                                  > Hi Pam,
                                  > Thank you for telling me your story about Maggie. I
                                  > have been having this feeling that if only she, my
                                  > cat, wouldnt have this big belly she would be so
                                  > much better! She has been sick and troubled for
                                  > months now, we found what caused it and dealt with
                                  > it and the future looked bright, then suddenly her
                                  > heart started to play up. I feel that after fighting
                                  > for so long and so hard, she deserves at least a few
                                  > weeks feeling fairly good.
                                  > I have been giving her medicine to get rid of the
                                  > fluids, and have doubled the dose but still it isn't
                                  > working as well as we hoped. I need a few days to
                                  > let it all sink in, I am thinking now of visiting
                                  > the vet with my cat and tell the vet what I have
                                  > learned from all the information I find online. The
                                  > coming days I will double the medicine again,
                                  > although they are bad for her kidneys. I was told
                                  > that when my cat stopped eating and drinking it was
                                  > time to end her life too. Your story confirms what I
                                  > have learned all this time my cat as been ill, you
                                  > as a caretaker have to stay contantly on top of
                                  > things.
                                  > Thank you for your kind words, and will ofcause keep
                                  > you posted on what goes on .
                                  > Marja and a big hug from Suteruni
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • Carol Thompson
                                  Susan, thanks so much for the reference on subaortic stenosis and atenolol. (Actually, it is Clipsie rather than Marja s kitty that has the subaortic
                                  Message 16 of 20 , Apr 4, 2003
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Susan, thanks so much for the reference on subaortic stenosis and atenolol. (Actually, it is Clipsie rather than Marja's kitty that has the subaortic stenosis. It is hard to keep everyone straight.)

                                    I was glad to see this in that atenolol is what Clipsie was initially given as this author recommends for dogs -- so it confirms the initial treatment. When she was first diagnosed, the cardiologist said that if Clipsie were a dog, her condition would be considered "moderate" on a scale of mild, moderate, severe -- but that it is so rare in cats that there is no data on it so we're not sure of the relative severity. She doesn't have any symptoms, though. And as it turns out, the cardiologist that will be seeing her when we go back on April 28 also has done extensive research on subaortic stenosis in dogs. (In contrast to lots of you who have to travel many hours and miles (or kilometers) to get to a cardiologist, I am extremely fortunately to live within 20 minutes of a specialty practice and a vet school, each of which has more than one board-certified cardiologist. I count my blessings in that regard!) I just checked the Web site of the specialty practice we go to and they do have Holter monitors available if needed. So far Clipsie hasn't had any fluid buildup so no Lasix at the moment. We'll just be taking things one step at a time.

                                    Thanks again for your help!

                                    Carol and Clipsie (and Charlie and angels Blizzard, Simba, and Max)

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Susan
                                    To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 4:07 PM
                                    Subject: RE: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                                    --- Marja van Die <suteruni@...> wrote:

                                    Marja,

                                    The only thing I found particular to atenolol and
                                    aortic stenosis using Google is a case study
                                    pertaining to a dog. It recommends:

                                    a Holter monitor is recommended. Discontinue Lasix.
                                    Exercise restriction is recommended.


                                    http://www.vmth.ucdavis.edu/cardio/cases/case4/casediscuss.htm

                                    The vet is Mark D. Kittleson who wrote Small Animal
                                    Cardiovascular Medicine. Perhaps you could email him.
                                    I get the impression that subaortic stenosis is rather
                                    rare so many vets may have little experience treating
                                    it.

                                    Susan


                                    >
                                    > Hi Pam,
                                    > Thank you for telling me your story about Maggie. I
                                    > have been having this feeling that if only she, my
                                    > cat, wouldnt have this big belly she would be so
                                    > much better! She has been sick and troubled for
                                    > months now, we found what caused it and dealt with
                                    > it and the future looked bright, then suddenly her
                                    > heart started to play up. I feel that after fighting
                                    > for so long and so hard, she deserves at least a few
                                    > weeks feeling fairly good.
                                    > I have been giving her medicine to get rid of the
                                    > fluids, and have doubled the dose but still it isn't
                                    > working as well as we hoped. I need a few days to
                                    > let it all sink in, I am thinking now of visiting
                                    > the vet with my cat and tell the vet what I have
                                    > learned from all the information I find online. The
                                    > coming days I will double the medicine again,
                                    > although they are bad for her kidneys. I was told
                                    > that when my cat stopped eating and drinking it was
                                    > time to end her life too. Your story confirms what I
                                    > have learned all this time my cat as been ill, you
                                    > as a caretaker have to stay contantly on top of
                                    > things.
                                    > Thank you for your kind words, and will ofcause keep
                                    > you posted on what goes on .
                                    > Marja and a big hug from Suteruni
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
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                                  • bcowell
                                    Marja, I think it is so sad when vets think that when a cat is old it is not worth trying to save. A bit like some doctors that tell an elderly person that
                                    Message 17 of 20 , Apr 4, 2003
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Marja,
                                      I think it is so sad when vets think that when a cat is old it is not
                                      worth trying to save. A bit like some doctors that tell an elderly
                                      person that they are just getting old and must expect not to feel so
                                      great, instead of searching for the cause of illness. It still
                                      happens and it is so wrong! Suteruni deserves to have the best chance
                                      to live and be happy, I wonder if you call phone a few more vets and
                                      see if any had a more positive attitude to treating a more mature cat?
                                      Best of luck,
                                      Brigitte


                                      --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, Marja van Die <suteruni@y...>
                                      wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hi Debbie,
                                      > Thanks so much for giving me more confidence. My cats name is
                                      Suteruni, I first heard of that name in New Zealand, where I was on
                                      holiday and my aunt had a black cat with that name and I thought it
                                      was beautiful and decided if I should ever have a black cat, I would
                                      name her Suteruni. Years later I chose this skinny black kitten from
                                      a nest with many others. Well I thought she was cute but when I see
                                      old pics, she was ugly really, big bold spots from flea bites on her
                                      body. She grew up to be a beautifull shiny black cat, very
                                      communitave with me and became my best friend :-)
                                      > Sut has been having health problems for 1 1/2 years now and I have
                                      found that even vets don't want to bother to do much for a cat with
                                      that age. I get information from internet and use that. I read here
                                      that draining is a possibilty but no way any vet sugested it yet.
                                      > will keep you posted on what happens, thanks again!
                                      > Marja
                                      >
                                      > Debbie Raikes-May <debbie.raikesmay@d...> wrote: Dear Marja
                                      > Your English is fine, a lot better than my Dutch would be so don't
                                      worry.
                                      >
                                      > My Girlie Treacle is 15 and she is on Fortekor too. It has really
                                      helped her. Has your vet put your cat on diuretics?
                                      > These are to make her wee /pee the fluid out...it has worked very
                                      well on Treacle. A drainage like you describe is sometimes done too
                                      but I imagine your vet is reluctant because of the bladder infections
                                      she has had.
                                      >
                                      > The pain you describe she had in her legs sounds like a blood clot
                                      which can happen. It is very painful for the cat. Has your vet put
                                      her on any anti clotting drug like a VERY small dose of aspirin?
                                      > DON'T EVER GIVE HER THIS YOURSELF sorry to shout - but it is very
                                      poisonous to cats and has to be given in tiny amounts and under
                                      prescription.
                                      >
                                      > I hope this helps a bit. Ask lots of questions....many people here
                                      know lots and lots.
                                      > Let us know how she is...what is her name?
                                      > And don't let being 17 deter you. Someone here had a kitty of 19
                                      who only went to the stars last week, God bless her.
                                      > Love and jeep posting
                                      > Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr
                                      > ----- Original Message -----
                                      > From: Marja van Die
                                      > To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Cc: sallymerlin@y...
                                      > Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:30 PM
                                      > Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Hi :-)
                                      > Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I
                                      am having the same problems with my cat I think.
                                      > First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont
                                      speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a
                                      simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
                                      > I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first
                                      started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and
                                      they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she
                                      crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and
                                      falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet
                                      said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking
                                      fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has
                                      had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken
                                      out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder
                                      infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has
                                      been on a diet for a while now.
                                      > All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she
                                      hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was
                                      wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks
                                      ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy,
                                      thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is
                                      holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee
                                      more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is
                                      real bad for her kidneys.
                                      > The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is
                                      not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids
                                      out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not
                                      without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard
                                      to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me
                                      because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel
                                      so much better.
                                      > I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she
                                      would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
                                      > I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all
                                      she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling
                                      pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is
                                      time for me to let her go?
                                      > greetings
                                      > Marja
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@y...> wrote:Hi there,
                                      >
                                      > I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a
                                      good
                                      > place of support.
                                      >
                                      > My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When
                                      he got
                                      > to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
                                      > cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it
                                      quite
                                      > successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid
                                      in
                                      > the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to
                                      deal
                                      > with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and
                                      around the
                                      > lungs because it can be drained manually.
                                      >
                                      > You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's
                                      condition.
                                      > Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to
                                      the
                                      > drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but
                                      hang
                                      > in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids
                                      manually
                                      > drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF
                                      kitties
                                      > often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually
                                      helps
                                      > keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully
                                      and
                                      > with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require
                                      anesthesia,
                                      > unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the
                                      vets...your
                                      > vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
                                      > afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
                                      > precaution.
                                      >
                                      > The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
                                      > efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping
                                      th
                                      > ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
                                      > lactulose!
                                      >
                                      > Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
                                      > months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had
                                      over 7
                                      > glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end
                                      he did
                                      > pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day
                                      we
                                      > were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this
                                      group
                                      > helped so much.
                                      >
                                      > Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!
                                      >
                                      > Sally and Angel Muffin
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
                                      > > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he
                                      was
                                      > > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him
                                      mildly
                                      > > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that
                                      Figero
                                      > > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to
                                      help as
                                      > > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
                                      > before?
                                      > > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
                                      > > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any
                                      info
                                      > on
                                      > > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like
                                      to
                                      > know
                                      > > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be
                                      done
                                      > > about it.Thank you
                                      >
                                      >
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                                    • diane
                                      I have found the attitude of vets to make all the difference in the world. They differ even within the practice I go to but they are all very good about not
                                      Message 18 of 20 , Apr 4, 2003
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        I have found the attitude of vets to make all the difference in the
                                        world. They differ even within the practice I go to but they are all
                                        very good about not going against what one has started for treatment
                                        (as least to us, the customers <G>)

                                        My vet is very pro-active and when one of our cats gets sick she says
                                        "this is what you are going to do". She does it with such conviction
                                        that I have to step back and think "Ok, so do I want to do this?". I
                                        always do. But she pulls no punches, when it's bad I know it. <sigh>

                                        Anyway, often a vet who feels the pet is too old or doomed or
                                        whatever, will not try treatments another vet will take for granted.
                                        So another vet may do wonders.


                                        Diane



                                        >Marja,
                                        >I think it is so sad when vets think that when a cat is old it is not
                                        >worth trying to save. A bit like some doctors that tell an elderly
                                        >person that they are just getting old and must expect not to feel so
                                        >great, instead of searching for the cause of illness. It still
                                        >happens and it is so wrong! Suteruni deserves to have the best chance
                                        >to live and be happy, I wonder if you call phone a few more vets and
                                        >see if any had a more positive attitude to treating a more mature cat?
                                        >Best of luck,
                                        >Brigitte
                                      • Debbie Raikes-May
                                        ... From: Marja van Die To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com Cc: debbie.raikesmay@dial.pipex.com Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe
                                        Message 19 of 20 , Apr 5, 2003
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Marja van Die
                                          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                          Cc: debbie.raikesmay@...
                                          Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:40 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                                          Hi Debbie,
                                          Thanks so much for giving me more confidence. My cats name is Suteruni, I first heard of that name in New Zealand, where I was on holiday and my aunt had a black cat with that name and I thought it was beautiful and decided if I should ever have a black cat, I would name her Suteruni. Years later I chose this skinny black kitten from a nest with many others. Well I thought she was cute but when I see old pics, she was ugly really, big bold spots from flea bites on her body. She grew up to be a beautifull shiny black cat, very communitave with me and became my best friend :-)
                                          Sut has been having health problems for 1 1/2 years now and I have found that even vets don't want to bother to do much for a cat with that age. I get information from internet and use that. I read here that draining is a possibilty but no way any vet sugested it yet.
                                          will keep you posted on what happens, thanks again!
                                          Marja

                                          Debbie Raikes-May <debbie.raikesmay@...> wrote: Dear Marja
                                          Your English is fine, a lot better than my Dutch would be so don't worry.

                                          My Girlie Treacle is 15 and she is on Fortekor too. It has really helped her. Has your vet put your cat on diuretics?
                                          These are to make her wee /pee the fluid out...it has worked very well on Treacle. A drainage like you describe is sometimes done too but I imagine your vet is reluctant because of the bladder infections she has had.

                                          The pain you describe she had in her legs sounds like a blood clot which can happen. It is very painful for the cat. Has your vet put her on any anti clotting drug like a VERY small dose of aspirin?
                                          DON'T EVER GIVE HER THIS YOURSELF sorry to shout - but it is very poisonous to cats and has to be given in tiny amounts and under prescription.

                                          I hope this helps a bit. Ask lots of questions....many people here know lots and lots.
                                          Let us know how she is...what is her name?
                                          And don't let being 17 deter you. Someone here had a kitty of 19 who only went to the stars last week, God bless her.
                                          Love and jeep posting
                                          Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr
                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: Marja van Die
                                          To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                          Cc: sallymerlin@...
                                          Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:30 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                                          Hi :-)
                                          Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I am having the same problems with my cat I think.
                                          First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
                                          I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has been on a diet for a while now.
                                          All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy, thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is real bad for her kidneys.
                                          The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel so much better.
                                          I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
                                          I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is time for me to let her go?
                                          greetings
                                          Marja


                                          "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@...> wrote:Hi there,

                                          I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a good
                                          place of support.

                                          My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When he got
                                          to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
                                          cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it quite
                                          successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid in
                                          the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to deal
                                          with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and around the
                                          lungs because it can be drained manually.

                                          You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's condition.
                                          Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to the
                                          drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but hang
                                          in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids manually
                                          drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF kitties
                                          often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually helps
                                          keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully and
                                          with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require anesthesia,
                                          unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the vets...your
                                          vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
                                          afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
                                          precaution.

                                          The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
                                          efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping th
                                          ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
                                          lactulose!

                                          Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
                                          months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had over 7
                                          glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end he did
                                          pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day we
                                          were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this group
                                          helped so much.

                                          Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!

                                          Sally and Angel Muffin


                                          --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
                                          wrote:
                                          > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
                                          > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he was
                                          > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him mildly
                                          > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that Figero
                                          > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to help as
                                          > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
                                          before?
                                          > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
                                          > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any info
                                          on
                                          > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like to
                                          know
                                          > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be done
                                          > about it.Thank you


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                                        • Debbie Raikes-May
                                          Hi Marja I am so pleased you feel a bit better as our cats pick up on our feelings. You are right totally not to give up on her. Just because sheis a senior
                                          Message 20 of 20 , Apr 5, 2003
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Hi Marja
                                            I am so pleased you feel a bit better as our cats pick up on our feelings. You are right totally not to give up on her. Just because sheis a senior does not mean she is worth any less effort. Boo to your vet!
                                            love Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr-- Original Message -----
                                            From: Marja van Die
                                            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                            Cc: debbie.raikesmay@...
                                            Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:40 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                                            Hi Debbie,
                                            Thanks so much for giving me more confidence. My cats name is Suteruni, I first heard of that name in New Zealand, where I was on holiday and my aunt had a black cat with that name and I thought it was beautiful and decided if I should ever have a black cat, I would name her Suteruni. Years later I chose this skinny black kitten from a nest with many others. Well I thought she was cute but when I see old pics, she was ugly really, big bold spots from flea bites on her body. She grew up to be a beautifull shiny black cat, very communitave with me and became my best friend :-)
                                            Sut has been having health problems for 1 1/2 years now and I have found that even vets don't want to bother to do much for a cat with that age. I get information from internet and use that. I read here that draining is a possibilty but no way any vet sugested it yet.
                                            will keep you posted on what happens, thanks again!
                                            Marja

                                            Debbie Raikes-May <debbie.raikesmay@...> wrote: Dear Marja
                                            Your English is fine, a lot better than my Dutch would be so don't worry.

                                            My Girlie Treacle is 15 and she is on Fortekor too. It has really helped her. Has your vet put your cat on diuretics?
                                            These are to make her wee /pee the fluid out...it has worked very well on Treacle. A drainage like you describe is sometimes done too but I imagine your vet is reluctant because of the bladder infections she has had.

                                            The pain you describe she had in her legs sounds like a blood clot which can happen. It is very painful for the cat. Has your vet put her on any anti clotting drug like a VERY small dose of aspirin?
                                            DON'T EVER GIVE HER THIS YOURSELF sorry to shout - but it is very poisonous to cats and has to be given in tiny amounts and under prescription.

                                            I hope this helps a bit. Ask lots of questions....many people here know lots and lots.
                                            Let us know how she is...what is her name?
                                            And don't let being 17 deter you. Someone here had a kitty of 19 who only went to the stars last week, God bless her.
                                            Love and jeep posting
                                            Debbie, Treacle and Kippurr
                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: Marja van Die
                                            To: feline-heart@yahoogroups.com
                                            Cc: sallymerlin@...
                                            Sent: Thursday, April 03, 2003 8:30 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [FH] Re: Severe Heart murmur Leading to heart failure



                                            Hi :-)
                                            Have read posts on this subject with very much interest because I am having the same problems with my cat I think.
                                            First of all, I am dutch, from Holland so want to mention I dont speak english that well, so pls excuse spelling mistakes plus a simple way of writing, specially with medical terms it is hard for me.
                                            I have a 17 1/2 year old female cat and end 2001 she first started to have problems with her rear legs, I went to the vet and they found nothing wrong with her. A few days later, at night, she crawled to me in bed having pain attacks as I saw it, moaning and falling over each time, this went on for hours. The next day the vet said she heard a ' galop rythym' in her heart. She has been taking fortekor ( benazepril ) each day since then. In the meantime she has had numurous bladder infections and in the end her woomb was taken out because it was badly infected and triggered off the bladder infections . Also bloodtests said she had CRF end 2002 so she has been on a diet for a while now.
                                            All this time, since she first started to have heartproblems, she hasnt been well at all. Everytime we thought we had found what was wrong, tried to fix it and something else popped up :-( A few weeks ago, within a few days, her belly became huge. At first I was happy, thinking she was putting on weight, now I know it is because she is holding fluids inside. She has been on medications to make her pee more but this doesnt seem to help much and according to the vet it is real bad for her kidneys.
                                            The vet said the reason for her big belly is because her heart is not functioning well. I asked the vet today if draining the fluids out of her would be an option, she said it is done but it is not without risk because the fluids are not just in one place and is hard to find where to drain it from. This is a dissapointment to me because im sure that if she gets rid of her big tummy she would feel so much better.
                                            I did get the impression that if I wanted the vet to do it, she would but she advised against it for the reasons I mentionned above.
                                            I realize my cat is real old but I love her so much, after all she has been through I wish she had at least some weeks feeling pretty happy. But perhaps I am holding on to her too much and it is time for me to let her go?
                                            greetings
                                            Marja


                                            "Sally J.Smith" <sallymerlin@...> wrote:Hi there,

                                            I am sorry to hear of Figaro's condition but you have found a good
                                            place of support.

                                            My cat Muffin had a heart murmur most of his long life. When he got
                                            to be nearly 16 years old it changed and we went to see a
                                            cardiologist...we discovered he now had HCM which we treated it quite
                                            successfully for another 2 years. Then he began to develop fluid in
                                            the abdomen....this is called "Ascites" and is actually easier to deal
                                            with in most cases, than the fluid that can build up in and around the
                                            lungs because it can be drained manually.

                                            You need first to see a cardiologist to assess Figaro's condition.
                                            Once that is done it may be possible that he will respond well to the
                                            drug therapy...it does take some time balancing everything, but hang
                                            in there...another semi-positive effect of having the fluids manually
                                            drained is that it acts as a kind of dialysis of sort. CHF kitties
                                            often have reduced blood flow thru the kidneys so this actually helps
                                            keep their systems more "flushed". It needs to be done carefully and
                                            with a sterile proceedure but it does not usually require anesthesia,
                                            unless your kitty is especially nervous and wiggly at the vets...your
                                            vet will advise, I'm sure...and Figaro will feel so much better
                                            afterwards. They can also test the fluid for cancer cells as a
                                            precaution.

                                            The "basketball" can be uncomfortable, it can reduce breathing
                                            efficiency and it also often has a constipating effect so keeping th
                                            ebowls moving is important...ask your vet about the wonders of
                                            lactulose!

                                            Every kitty is different...my vets said that we had weeks not
                                            months once he begain to fill up...but they were wrong...we had over 7
                                            glorious months together after the diagnosis....yes, in the end he did
                                            pass away, but we had time to adjust and enjoy each and every day we
                                            were given. It was a real roller coaster some times, but this group
                                            helped so much.

                                            Please keep us posted on Figaros progress!

                                            Sally and Angel Muffin


                                            --- In feline-heart@yahoogroups.com, "rutebaga13" <jennadi2@h...>
                                            wrote:
                                            > My cat Figero is 11 and has a severe heart murmur,because of a
                                            > negligent vet we were not informed of his heart problem till he was
                                            > 9.Figero is now on 12.5mg of lasix once a day it makes him mildly
                                            > sick but seems to help with his breathing.My question is that Figero
                                            > now has a fluid-filled belly and the lasix does not seem to help as
                                            > much anymore has anyone else had experience with These issues
                                            before?
                                            > Figero i s VERY frail and cannot take much stress so i am very
                                            > hesitant to Bring him to him to his vet.Does anyone have any info
                                            on
                                            > Fluid in abdomen asssociated with A heart murmur?I would like to
                                            know
                                            > if It is causing him any pain And if there is anything to be done
                                            > about it.Thank you


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