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Re: CVT - How does it work?

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  • Royce Creasey
    After the rear pulley is a centrifugal ... Gosh Julian, is that right? is the centrigfugal clutch downstream of the CVT? Weird etc. We used to have the
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 1, 2001
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      After the rear pulley is a centrifugal
      >clutch. If the rear pulley is spinning fast enough this locks up. Then
      >there's a gear train to the back wheel to set the final gear ratio.

      Gosh Julian, is that right? is the centrigfugal clutch downstream of the
      CVT? Weird etc.

      We used to have the clutch on the end of the crank, and then the CVT bits.
      The CVT 'parked' in 'low' so the first thing that happened was clutch
      take-up, then with increasing speed, ratio transfer from yer rollers and
      ramps etc.

      This was just ATV racer stuff so it's probably not at the leading edge of
      CVT. Ran in mud OK though.


      Royce
    • Morag & Ian Fitzsimons
      ... From: Julian Bond [mailto:julian_bond@voidstar.com] Sent: 01 November 2001 07:45 To: feet_forward@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: CVT - How does it work? ...
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 1, 2001
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        -----Original Message-----
        From: Julian Bond [mailto:julian_bond@...]
        Sent: 01 November 2001 07:45
        To: feet_forward@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: CVT - How does it work?

        >Suzuki's innovation (although someone else
        is sure to have done it) is to put a stepper motor on the rear pulleys
        to vary the width instead of rollers on the front<
        Julian, isn`t it called "tiptronic" in t6he car world?
        Apparently the new Honda 750 has hydraulic powered/controlled CVT That
        should be simpler, cheaper lighter and more reliable than using stepper
        motors, probably using a lot of wee-proven automatic gearbox technology.
        Will be really interesting to see a breakdown of such a system if the rumour
        is true!
        Ian
        ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->




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      • Julian Bond
        In article , Royce Creasey writes ... Well it is on the Helix, Burgman and as far as I know
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 1, 2001
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          In article <001801c162b6$cbf3b180$154c08c3@pair>, Royce Creasey
          <royce@...> writes
          >After the rear pulley is a centrifugal
          >>clutch. If the rear pulley is spinning fast enough this locks up. Then
          >>there's a gear train to the back wheel to set the final gear ratio.
          >
          >Gosh Julian, is that right? is the centrigfugal clutch downstream of the
          >CVT? Weird etc.

          Well it is on the Helix, Burgman and as far as I know on all the baby
          scoots.

          --
          Julian Bond email: julian_bond@... Preferred contact point
          Owner/Admin: http://www.bikeweb.com/ All your M/C news are belong to us
          CV/Resume: http://www.voidstar.com/cv/ I could do that
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        • Julian Bond
          In article , Morag & Ian Fitzsimons writes ... I *think* the car tiptronic systems
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 1, 2001
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            In article <MABBJAAHMGNFKOCENNENKENGCAAA.morian@...>, Morag &
            Ian Fitzsimons <morian@...> writes
            >>Suzuki's innovation (although someone else
            >is sure to have done it) is to put a stepper motor on the rear pulleys
            >to vary the width instead of rollers on the front<
            >Julian, isn`t it called "tiptronic" in t6he car world?

            I *think* the car tiptronic systems are all just like conventional M/C
            gearboxes. The innovation here is to have a solenoid activated gearshift
            with links into the engine management system and clutch to cope with
            full throttle upshifts and to blip the throttle on downshifts.

            --
            Julian Bond email: julian_bond@... Preferred contact point
            Owner/Admin: http://www.bikeweb.com/ All your M/C news are belong to us
            CV/Resume: http://www.voidstar.com/cv/ I could do that
            WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ Rants and Raves from London
            > Use It Ritually <
          • Arthur Middleton
            snip ... snip ... I recall being surprised at this when asking a question about the drive layout of the TMax. There must be a reason, I guess. Doesn t do much
            Message 5 of 15 , Nov 1, 2001
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              snip
              > Gosh Julian, is that right? is the centrifugal clutch downstream of the
              > CVT? Weird etc.
              >
              snip
              >
              > Royce

              I recall being surprised at this when asking a question about the drive
              layout of the TMax. There must be a reason, I guess. Doesn't do much for the
              power losses, evidently.

              Arthur.
            • Morag & Ian Fitzsimons
              ... From: Julian Bond [mailto:julian_bond@voidstar.com] Sent: 01 November 2001 18:44 ... gearboxes. The innovation here is to have a solenoid activated
              Message 6 of 15 , Nov 1, 2001
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                -----Original Message-----
                From: Julian Bond [mailto:julian_bond@...]
                Sent: 01 November 2001 18:44

                >Julian, isn`t it called "tiptronic" in t6he car world?

                >I *think* the car tiptronic systems are all just like conventional M/C
                gearboxes. The innovation here is to have a solenoid activated gearshift
                with links into the engine management system and clutch to cope with
                full throttle upshifts and to blip the throttle on downshifts<

                Could well be, but then where does the "fully automatic" option come from?
                Can we have it on our motorcycles as an option?
                Ian.

                --
                ---------------------------------------------------------------------~->




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              • Julian Bond
                In article , Morag & Ian Fitzsimons writes ... Once you ve got the gearbox change,
                Message 7 of 15 , Nov 2, 2001
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                  In article <MABBJAAHMGNFKOCENNENCENJCAAA.morian@...>, Morag &
                  Ian Fitzsimons <morian@...> writes
                  >From: Julian Bond [mailto:julian_bond@...]
                  >Sent: 01 November 2001 18:44
                  >
                  >>Julian, isn`t it called "tiptronic" in t6he car world?
                  >
                  >>I *think* the car tiptronic systems are all just like conventional M/C
                  >gearboxes. The innovation here is to have a solenoid activated gearshift
                  >with links into the engine management system and clutch to cope with
                  >full throttle upshifts and to blip the throttle on downshifts<
                  >
                  >Could well be, but then where does the "fully automatic" option come from?
                  >Can we have it on our motorcycles as an option?

                  Once you've got the gearbox change, clutch and engine management under
                  electronic control, making it fully automatic is just more software.
                  Yes, in theory, it should be applicable to motorcycles and not even that
                  hard. But the current state of thumb buttons for gear changes is still
                  pretty crude. We're not much farther on than the sort of thing they do
                  in 600 supersports racing where they change the horn button into a
                  momentary kill switch for full throttle upchanges.

                  --
                  Julian Bond email: julian_bond@... Preferred contact point
                  Owner/Admin: http://www.bikeweb.com/ All your M/C news are belong to us
                  CV/Resume: http://www.voidstar.com/cv/ I could do that
                  WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ Rants and Raves from London
                  > Your Statutory Rights Are Not Affected <
                • Royce Creasey
                  upshifts and to blip the throttle on downshifts
                  Message 8 of 15 , Nov 2, 2001
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                    upshifts and to blip the throttle on downshifts<
                    >
                    >Could well be, but then where does the "fully automatic" option come from?
                    >Can we have it on our motorcycles as an option?
                    >Ian.


                    Once you go to electronic control of a mechanical stepped gearbox, coupled
                    with similar engine control, you can have 'have it all' by selecting
                    suitable programming.

                    McLaren and Williams were both running six speed mechanical gearboxes with a
                    an electronic gearchange controlled by two buttons. 'up' and 'down'
                    Depending on which one pressed the gearbox would auto-change in that
                    direction as it hit optimum engine speed. All you had to do was drive the
                    car. Hit the down button as you hit the brakes, the up button when you get
                    back on the throttle and you're away. There was a third button which you
                    held down untill the red lights went out, this provided auto-start with
                    traction control - 0-100 in 2-3 seconds.

                    'Course the F.I.A. soon put a stop to all that.


                    These wese just slightly more advanced versions of the 'button-change'
                    systems all the other teams were using. 'tiptronic' is a sort of production
                    survival of that era. It's wot I want.

                    Royce
                  • Royce Creasey
                    But the current state of thumb buttons for gear changes is still ... Isn t the problem for sports uprights that you re holding onto the handlebars too hard to
                    Message 9 of 15 , Nov 2, 2001
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                      But the current state of thumb buttons for gear changes is still
                      >pretty crude. We're not much farther on than the sort of thing they do
                      >in 600 supersports racing where they change the horn button into a
                      >momentary kill switch for full throttle upchanges.
                      >
                      Isn't the problem for sports uprights that you're holding onto the
                      handlebars too hard to be able to do delicate things like pressing buttons?
                      The poor buggers are getting tendonitus just operating the throttle and
                      steering already (Presumably, for professional riders, an RSI-like
                      Industrial Injury caused by unsuitable equipement being provided?).

                      Royce
                    • david_scott@infonet-europe.com
                      The new Mini has a tiptronic or Steptronic auto g/box as an option and that is CVT. David. ... From: Julian Bond [mailto:julian_bond@voidstar.com] Sent: 01
                      Message 10 of 15 , Nov 2, 2001
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                        The new Mini has a "tiptronic" or "Steptronic" auto g/box as an option and
                        that is CVT.

                        David.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Julian Bond [mailto:julian_bond@...]
                        Sent: 01 November 2001 18:44
                        To: feet_forward@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: CVT - How does it work?


                        In article <MABBJAAHMGNFKOCENNENKENGCAAA.morian@...>, Morag &
                        Ian Fitzsimons <morian@...> writes
                        >>Suzuki's innovation (although someone else
                        >is sure to have done it) is to put a stepper motor on the rear pulleys
                        >to vary the width instead of rollers on the front<
                        >Julian, isn`t it called "tiptronic" in t6he car world?

                        I *think* the car tiptronic systems are all just like conventional M/C
                        gearboxes. The innovation here is to have a solenoid activated gearshift
                        with links into the engine management system and clutch to cope with
                        full throttle upshifts and to blip the throttle on downshifts.

                        --
                        Julian Bond email: julian_bond@... Preferred contact point
                        Owner/Admin: http://www.bikeweb.com/ All your M/C news are belong to us
                        CV/Resume: http://www.voidstar.com/cv/ I could do that
                        WebLog: http://www.voidstar.com/ Rants and Raves from London
                        > Use It Ritually <





                        Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • Arthur Middleton
                        ... Seems a good idea. A bit easier with a programmable engine management system, I guess. Pneumatic or hydraulic clutch, operated by a mechanical valve on the
                        Message 11 of 15 , Nov 2, 2001
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                          > >I *think* the car tiptronic systems are all just like conventional M/C
                          > gearboxes. The innovation here is to have a solenoid activated gearshift
                          > with links into the engine management system and clutch to cope with
                          > full throttle upshifts and to blip the throttle on downshifts<
                          >
                          > Could well be, but then where does the "fully automatic" option come from?
                          > Can we have it on our motorcycles as an option?
                          > Ian.

                          Seems a good idea. A bit easier with a programmable engine management
                          system, I guess. Pneumatic or hydraulic clutch, operated by a mechanical
                          valve on the gear change was a thought I had. Not for starting off, but for
                          gear changing on the move. Still have to operate the throttle appropriately.
                          Mind you, it's the starting off that is the biggest problem. Centrifugal
                          clutch would take care of 'normal' starts, like in traffic. Manual clutch
                          retained for fast starts. Allows high revs. Seems like a job best done at
                          engine/gearbox design stage really.

                          Arthur.
                        • Arthur Middleton
                          ... They had to allow traction control back in this year. Engine management was so advanced there was no way to police it. Arthur.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Nov 2, 2001
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                            > Once you go to electronic control of a mechanical stepped gearbox, coupled
                            > with similar engine control, you can have 'have it all' by selecting
                            > suitable programming.
                            >
                            > McLaren and Williams were both running six speed mechanical
                            > gearboxes with a
                            > an electronic gearchange controlled by two buttons. 'up' and 'down'
                            > Depending on which one pressed the gearbox would auto-change in that
                            > direction as it hit optimum engine speed. All you had to do was drive the
                            > car. Hit the down button as you hit the brakes, the up button
                            > when you get
                            > back on the throttle and you're away. There was a third button which you
                            > held down untill the red lights went out, this provided auto-start with
                            > traction control - 0-100 in 2-3 seconds.
                            >
                            > 'Course the F.I.A. soon put a stop to all that.
                            >
                            >
                            > These wese just slightly more advanced versions of the 'button-change'
                            > systems all the other teams were using. 'tiptronic' is a sort of
                            > production
                            > survival of that era. It's wot I want.
                            >
                            > Royce

                            They had to allow traction control back in this year. Engine management was
                            so advanced there was no way to police it.

                            Arthur.
                          • Arthur Middleton
                            ... Van Doorne metal belt, I presume? Arthur.
                            Message 13 of 15 , Nov 2, 2001
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                              > The new Mini has a "tiptronic" or "Steptronic" auto g/box as an option and
                              > that is CVT.
                              >
                              > David.

                              Van Doorne metal belt, I presume?

                              Arthur.
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