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Re: [fearnwhiskey] Re: Apple ads (was memorial day)

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  • Kevin J. Hosey
    Mark, hmm; I bet just about all of us here on F&W were immersed rather deeply in 1980s rock, new wave and so on; like many, I wrote about it, DJed, bought,
    Message 1 of 18 , May 29, 2003
      Mark,
      hmm; I bet just about all of us here on F&W were immersed rather deeply in
      1980s rock, new wave and so on; like many, I wrote about it, DJed, bought,
      listened to and sold it (at the late and way less than great Cavages).
      I don't hear anything near the same you do, nor do I get any good feeling
      (definite case of YMMV); besides what I wrote before, derivative and lacking
      in creativity/cliche ridden are what come to mind when I hear the New
      Pornographers.
      And Sparks? I'd rather hear Jane Weidlin solo than the NPs <g>.

      Kevin

      -----Original Message-----
      From: samchecker <mwyatt@...>
      To: fearnwhiskey@yahoogroups.com <fearnwhiskey@yahoogroups.com>
      Date: Thursday, May 29, 2003 2:37 PM
      Subject: [fearnwhiskey] Re: Apple ads (was memorial day)


      >
      >You're probably not the only one who thinks that, but I couldn't
      >disagree more. I caught them at SXSW 2001 as well and came away with
      >the exact opposite reaction, and my immersion in 80's rock was pretty
      >much total. I can't see how anybody's who really into pop wouldn't get
      >immediately drawn into their sound. I can't get Electric Version off
      >my CD player or my iPod, and it's awfully rare that I even listen to
      >something more than a couple of times. Don't be afraid to liberate
      >your inner Sparks fan and embrace the NP's...
      >
      >Mark
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >fearnwhiskey-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >
      >
      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      >
      >
    • ahacksaw1
      ... good feeling ... and lacking ... the New ... I am with you there, pretty much. ... . ... Okay, now you re pushing it a little. Is there a third option,
      Message 2 of 18 , May 29, 2003
        --- In fearnwhiskey@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin J. Hosey"
        <kjhosey@a...> wrote:
        > I don't hear anything near the same you do, nor do I get any
        good feeling
        > (definite case of YMMV); besides what I wrote before, derivative
        and lacking
        > in creativity/cliche ridden are what come to mind when I hear
        the New
        > Pornographers.

        I am with you there, pretty much.

        > And Sparks? I'd rather hear Jane Weidlin solo than the NPs
        <g>.
        >
        Okay, now you're pushing it a little. Is there a third option, like
        sticking nails in my ears or something? <g>
      • Steve Gardner
        ... lacking ... So, wait a second. Are you actually trying to say that two people can have two totally different feelings about a band/record? Oh man, I m
        Message 3 of 18 , May 29, 2003
          > hmm; I bet just about all of us here on F&W were immersed rather deeply in
          > 1980s rock, new wave and so on; like many, I wrote about it, DJed, bought,
          > listened to and sold it (at the late and way less than great Cavages).
          > I don't hear anything near the same you do, nor do I get any good feeling
          > (definite case of YMMV); besides what I wrote before, derivative and
          lacking
          > in creativity/cliche ridden are what come to mind when I hear the New
          > Pornographers.

          So, wait a second. Are you actually trying to say that two people can have
          two totally different feelings about a band/record? Oh man, I'm starting to
          feel dizzy.

          By the way, here's why I like the New Pornos: They write catchy songs, the
          music is upbeat, I like the lyrics and it rocks pretty well. I also like the
          variety of singers. They definitely are not the first band to have those
          five qualities, but I don't listen to them because I think they are unique.
          I just listen to them because I like 'em.

          And Jane Weidlin was and always will be the cutest Gogo. I've never thought
          much about her music, though.

          steve
        • Kevin J. Hosey
          ... From: Bill Silvers To: fearnwhiskey@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:48 AM Subject:
          Message 4 of 18 , May 29, 2003
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Bill Silvers <wfsilvers@...>
            To: fearnwhiskey@yahoogroups.com <fearnwhiskey@yahoogroups.com>
            Date: Friday, May 30, 2003 8:48 AM
            Subject: [fearnwhiskey] Re: Apple ads (was memorial day)


            >Well, as somebody who probably qualifies in some way as "really into
            >pop" and who thought that Sparks were good for a giggle at least, I
            >don't understand why the New Pornographers are so well regarded by so
            >many folks. ELECTRIC VERSION is an improvement over their "I just
            >don't get it" debut, but a slight one. It's just too damned busy at
            >the expense of my involvement, and that's from somebody who wouldn't
            >use "new wave" as an epithet. "Hair wave," sure. <g>
            >
            >b.s.
            Ha; very good comment on the new wave/hair wave, Bill. I argued too many
            people for more time than it was worth on why I wasn't ashamed of new wave
            (although I contested some bands included as new wave), but hair wave and
            the hair styles of that decade still amuse me.
            And some people wonder why I've had my head basically shaved since the
            1980s.

            Kevin
          • Bill Silvers
            ... catching them live at SxSW 2001 and hearing their recoirdings, that the band is at best a lame, fifth-rate new wave band that wouldn t have cut it in the
            Message 5 of 18 , May 30, 2003
              Mark replied to Kevin Hosey:

              > > And Paul's New Pornographers' boycott remark brought up something
              > I've been wondering; am I the only person who thinks, based on
              catching them live at SxSW 2001 and hearing their recoirdings, that
              the band is at best a lame, fifth-rate new wave band that wouldn't
              have cut it in the 1980s? I had to get that off my chest.
              >
              > You're probably not the only one who thinks that, but I couldn't
              > disagree more. I caught them at SXSW 2001 as well and came away with
              > the exact opposite reaction, and my immersion in 80's rock was pretty
              > much total. I can't see how anybody's who really into pop wouldn't get
              > immediately drawn into their sound. I can't get Electric Version off
              > my CD player or my iPod, and it's awfully rare that I even listen to
              > something more than a couple of times. Don't be afraid to liberate
              > your inner Sparks fan and embrace the NP's...

              Well, as somebody who probably qualifies in some way as "really into
              pop" and who thought that Sparks were good for a giggle at least, I
              don't understand why the New Pornographers are so well regarded by so
              many folks. ELECTRIC VERSION is an improvement over their "I just
              don't get it" debut, but a slight one. It's just too damned busy at
              the expense of my involvement, and that's from somebody who wouldn't
              use "new wave" as an epithet. "Hair wave," sure. <g>

              b.s. who just couldn't find anything useful to add to the
              BillFox/Mice/Revelers threads but to say that Bill Fox's records are
              both of 'em good (where is he now?), I'd like to hear The Mice along
              with innumerable GbV fans and I really really regret not driving to
              STL to see The Revelers when they were touring DAY IN, DAY OUT in
              1999. Where the hell are they now, admidst this garage revival stuff?
            • Bill Silvers
              Aw shit, forgot to mention... ... with the exact opposite reaction, and my immersion in 80 s rock was pretty much total. I dunno if your SXSW 2001 exposure was
              Message 6 of 18 , May 30, 2003
                Aw shit, forgot to mention...

                Mark wrote:
                > > You're probably not the only one who thinks that, but I couldn't
                > > disagree more. I caught them at SXSW 2001 as well and came away
                with the exact opposite reaction, and my immersion in 80's rock was
                pretty much total.

                I dunno if your SXSW 2001 exposure was only my SXSW 2001 exposure,
                outdoors at the Hideout party, but IMO those circumstances are gonna
                wipe out some of the busy/dizziness that they're so bent on putting on
                those records. I liked them at that venue, almost unplugged. I want to
                like them. They just won't let me. <g>

                b.s.
              • samchecker
                ... deeply in ... bought, ... feeling ... lacking ... Kevin-- I m sorry that I implied maybe you didn t listen to 80 s stuff. And I agree the band is
                Message 7 of 18 , May 30, 2003
                  --- In fearnwhiskey@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin J. Hosey" <kjhosey@a...>
                  wrote:
                  > Mark,
                  > hmm; I bet just about all of us here on F&W were immersed rather
                  deeply in
                  > 1980s rock, new wave and so on; like many, I wrote about it, DJed,
                  bought,
                  > listened to and sold it (at the late and way less than great Cavages).
                  > I don't hear anything near the same you do, nor do I get any good
                  feeling
                  > (definite case of YMMV); besides what I wrote before, derivative and
                  lacking
                  > in creativity/cliche ridden are what come to mind when I hear the New
                  > Pornographers.
                  > And Sparks? I'd rather hear Jane Weidlin solo than the NPs <g>.
                  >

                  Kevin--

                  I'm sorry that I implied maybe you didn't listen to 80's stuff. And I
                  agree the band is definitely a YMMV kind of thing...although I still
                  don't think a "fifth rate" band ever had as good a drummer as the New
                  Pornographers have.

                  I do need to clear one thing up, though...I ain't talking about new
                  wave era Sparks, which I have less than no use for (ditto their
                  Giorgio Moroder period). I'm talking about Kimono My
                  House/Propaganda/Big Beat/Introducing Sparks Sparks. That's stuff
                  that's never gotten its due til now.

                  Mark
                • Rob Jefferson
                  ... That s pretty much my feeling on them -- I enjoy them immensely because they re a lot of fun. Not original, not particularly brilliant, but they re just
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 30, 2003
                    On Thu, 29 May 2003, Steve Gardner wrote:

                    > By the way, here's why I like the New Pornos: They write catchy songs, the
                    > music is upbeat, I like the lyrics and it rocks pretty well. I also like the
                    > variety of singers. They definitely are not the first band to have those
                    > five qualities, but I don't listen to them because I think they are unique.
                    > I just listen to them because I like 'em.

                    That's pretty much my feeling on them -- I enjoy them immensely because
                    they're a lot of fun. Not original, not particularly brilliant, but
                    they're just *neat*. Shameless, irrationally exuberant pop music isn't
                    necessarily a bad thing. And maybe it's because I'm in my mid-twenties,
                    missed out on the classic power pop the first time around, and am learning
                    about it years (decades?) after the fact.

                    (And the fact that they're one of the few bands I like that almost all of
                    my friends can deal with just makes them that much niftier in my book.)

                    rob
                  • Carl Abraham Zimring
                    --On Friday, May 30, 2003 11:02 AM -0400 Rob Jefferson ... I like their production (my take on busy-ness in power-pop may be gleaned by my belief that Grant
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 30, 2003
                      --On Friday, May 30, 2003 11:02 AM -0400 Rob Jefferson
                      <jeffer@...> wrote:

                      > On Thu, 29 May 2003, Steve Gardner wrote:
                      >
                      >> By the way, here's why I like the New Pornos: They write catchy songs,
                      >> the music is upbeat, I like the lyrics and it rocks pretty well. I also
                      >> like the variety of singers. They definitely are not the first band to
                      >> have those five qualities, but I don't listen to them because I think
                      >> they are unique. I just listen to them because I like 'em.
                      >
                      > That's pretty much my feeling on them -- I enjoy them immensely because
                      > they're a lot of fun. Not original, not particularly brilliant, but
                      > they're just *neat*. Shameless, irrationally exuberant pop music isn't
                      > necessarily a bad thing. And maybe it's because I'm in my mid-twenties,
                      > missed out on the classic power pop the first time around, and am
                      > learning about it years (decades?) after the fact.

                      I like their production (my take on busy-ness in power-pop may be gleaned
                      by my belief that Grant Hart's _Good News for Modern Man_ is the best
                      record in that genre over the past several years) and it's a treat to hear
                      Neko Case singing loud songs. It's a treat to hear her sing, period. I
                      was less impressed with their live show than the CDs, though perhaps they
                      had an off night.

                      > (And the fact that they're one of the few bands I like that almost all of
                      > my friends can deal with just makes them that much niftier in my book.)

                      No large Goatwhore parties at your house, Rob?

                      Carl Z.
                    • ahacksaw1
                      ... new ... That s stuff ... Ohhhhh, now you ve done it.. You mentioned Propaganda. I will now have that song in my head for weeks, no matter how desperate I
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 30, 2003
                        --- In fearnwhiskey@yahoogroups.com, "samchecker"
                        <mwyatt@c...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I do need to clear one thing up, though...I ain't talking about
                        new
                        > wave era Sparks, which I have less than no use for (ditto their
                        > Giorgio Moroder period). I'm talking about Kimono My
                        > House/Propaganda/Big Beat/Introducing Sparks Sparks.
                        That's stuff
                        > that's never gotten its due til now.

                        Ohhhhh, now you've done it.. You mentioned "Propaganda." I will
                        now have that song in my head for weeks, no matter how
                        desperate I become to chase it away. Remind me to kill you at
                        Twangfest, Mark.
                      • Carl Abraham Zimring
                        --On Friday, May 30, 2003 4:55 PM +0000 ahacksaw1 ... Twangfest 7: Come for the music, stay for the bloodshed. Carl Z.
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 30, 2003
                          --On Friday, May 30, 2003 4:55 PM +0000 ahacksaw1 <ahacksaw@...>
                          wrote:

                          > Remind me to kill you at
                          > Twangfest, Mark.

                          Twangfest 7: Come for the music, stay for the bloodshed.

                          Carl Z.
                        • Carl Abraham Zimring
                          Getting back to the Apple content, here s a Times article about two big, independent labels and mp3s. Carl Z. ***
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 30, 2003
                            Getting back to the Apple content, here's a Times article about two big,
                            independent labels and mp3s.

                            Carl Z.

                            ***

                            http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/29/technology/circuits/29tune.html

                            Two Labels Warm Up to MP3's
                            By BILL WERDE

                            WHILE the record industry sweats over how to prevent consumers from
                            transferring music from commercial CD's to digital files and swapping
                            copyrighted material online, two labels are exploring a different approach
                            to the format battle.

                            In early April, the Palm and Mute labels began to release discs that
                            include unprotected MP3 files along with conventional CD audio tracks.
                            Palm, working with a small independent label, Kemado, released "Sunlight
                            Makes Me Paranoid" from the New York band Elefant; fans can listen to all
                            10 tracks on a CD player or in MP3 format, and the disc includes a bonus
                            song available only in MP3 format.
                            Advertisement

                            Mute, well known among fans of electronic music, released a double album of
                            techno tracks, "2 CD's & MP3's." The album has 12 MP3-only cuts in addition
                            to 16 tunes in both formats.

                            Representatives of the labels say the decision to include MP3 files on the
                            CD's does not reflect a surrender to illegal file traders, but rather,
                            pragmatism.

                            "We're just acknowledging the way our fans like to listen to their music,"
                            said Dan Cohen, head of marketing for Palm. "The idea of doing this isn't
                            to say to kids, 'Hey, swap our files.' We're saying: 'Thank you for buying
                            the record. We want to give you something.' Maybe that's saying, 'You'll
                            burn this onto your iPod anyway; well, here - it's high quality, it's
                            sanctioned by the artist and we're cool with you having it on your player.'
                            And if a few people trade it, well, we're hoping they'll like it enough
                            that they'll go buy it."

                            Mr. Cohen said the Elefant album had sold just under 2,000 copies in six
                            weeks, exceeding its 90-day sales goal. Palm has since released three more
                            MP3/CD albums; a fifth is coming in August.

                            Seth Hodder, the label manager at Mute, said it, too, was seeking to meet
                            the demand of its customers.

                            "We spoke with some of the D.J.'s we work with, and it became clear that
                            more and more of them were abandoning vinyl for programs such as Final
                            Scratch and Traktor, and playing digital files," Mr. Hodder said. "It just
                            made sense to include them on the CD."

                            In early May, Mute's star D.J. and techno composer, Richie Hawtin, drove
                            home the point in a promotional appearance for Apple Computer. At Apple's
                            Manhattan store, he spun a compelling set of music using five iPods.

                            Hilary B. Rosen, the chairman and chief executive officer of the Recording
                            Industry Association of America, the organization behind recent lawsuits
                            that took aim at file-swapping consumers, offered a cautious endorsement of
                            this latest marketing tactic. "If companies want to save people the trouble
                            of ripping their files to an MP3 format, that's fine," she said. "Our view
                            has always been if the copyright holder wants to give away their product,
                            it's fine. The key issue is that it's their choice to give it away."

                            Including unprotected digital files on a CD is little more than a gesture,
                            because it takes only a few minutes to convert the tracks on an unprotected
                            CD to MP3 files anyway. But in the context of the rocky relationship
                            between record labels and music consumers over the last few years, Palm and
                            Mute and the artists they represent are wagering that the symbolism won't
                            be lost on fans.

                            "This is about artists trying to get closer to their audience," said Mr.
                            Hawtin, who, performing as Plastikman, contributed "Afrika," a track of
                            clanging drums, to the Mute compilation.

                            "Maybe this CD is only giving people what they could already have, but it
                            shows a good attitude from the label toward the consumer," he said. "These
                            labels understand what's happening and want to be part of the digital
                            revolution."
                          • flcsoda
                            ... Is Marie catching bottles again? Later... CK
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 30, 2003
                              > Twangfest 7: Come for the music, stay for the bloodshed.
                              >
                              > Carl Z.

                              Is Marie catching bottles again?

                              Later...
                              CK
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