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RE: [fearnwhiskey] Re: Clip: Post-Pazz & Jop

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  • Dave Purcell
    Carl, did you see Christgau s firing as a bad thing? I thought the guy was so awful and irrelevant that it was hard to argue with their decision. But I also
    Message 1 of 5 , Dec 1, 2006
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      Carl, did you see Christgau's firing as a bad thing? I thought the guy was
      so awful and irrelevant that it was hard to argue with their decision. But I
      also don't follow music criticism nearly as closely as you probably do, so
      I'm curious to hear what you (and others) think.

      dp

      _____

      From: fearnwhiskey@yahoogroups.com [mailto:fearnwhiskey@yahoogroups.com] On
      Behalf Of Wilson, Carl
      Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 8:08 PM
      To: fearnwhiskey@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [fearnwhiskey] Re: Clip: Post-Pazz & Jop



      I started agitating for a boycott of P&J after Christgau was fired and
      calling for someone to step up to replace it. Pitchfork, who were kind
      of the obvious place, declined to do so (and I was just as happy about
      that), as have a few other potential alternative venues. My ideal
      website to do it would have been the new paperthinwalls.com, where
      several of the ex-Voice people and other recently redundancied critics
      have shown up, but they didn't raise their hand.

      I'm so-so on the Idolator site, but what makes its poll credible is that
      it's being run by Michaelangelo Matos, the former Seattle Weekly and
      emusic.com music editor, who's established himself very well as a smart,
      dedicated, caring member of the critical community over the past decade.
      (His 33 1/3 volume on Prince's Sign of the Times is one of my faves in
      the series.)

      If Idolator were doing it on its own, I'd be wary, but with Matos in
      charge, I'm happily in.

      carl w

      =================
      Carl Wilson
      The Globe & Mail, Toronto
      http://www.zoilus <http://www.zoilus.com> com <http://www.zoilus
      <http://www.zoilus.com/> com/>

      ________________________________

      From: fearnwhiskey@ <mailto:fearnwhiskey%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      [mailto:fearnwhiskey@ <mailto:fearnwhiskey%40yahoogroups.com>
      yahoogroups.com]
      On Behalf Of Barry Mazor
      Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 3:09 PM
      To: fearnwhiskey@ <mailto:fearnwhiskey%40yahoogroups.com> yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [fearnwhiskey] Re: Clip: Post-Pazz & Jop

      A lot of people are simply not going to contribute to Pazz and Jop any
      more. Whether this
      Idolator thing is a place to go instead, I'm not so sure. Nor exactly
      how many people care--
      always a question.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Wilson, Carl
      Dave wrote: Carl, did you see Christgau s firing as a bad thing? I thought the guy was so awful and irrelevant that it was hard to argue with their decision.
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 6, 2006
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        Dave wrote: "Carl, did you see Christgau's firing as a bad thing? I
        thought the guy was
        so awful and irrelevant that it was hard to argue with their decision.
        But I
        also don't follow music criticism nearly as closely as you probably do,
        so
        I'm curious to hear what you (and others) think."

        He wrote that almost a week ago but I'm behind in my list-reading. But I
        hate not to respond to a direct question so I'll say quickly: I think
        Christgau gets a bum rap because his writing style can be a bit
        convoluted. But imho, his actual opinions are nowhere near irrelevant,
        and he carries the can for an engaged, intellectual and politically
        minded music criticism that is exactly what the Voice's new management
        is coming out against going after him. The guy is far from out of touch
        - he might not agree with you about a lot of stuff, but he keeps up with
        the kind of hip-hop that a guy like him wouldn't at all be expected to
        keep up with (and always has), while still championing a lot of indie
        rock etc., and brings a passionate perspective to it all. He's the
        opposite of glib - which you might not think if all you read are the
        Consumer Guides, but I've always thought that's the least interesting
        thing that he does.

        And on top of that, he created the Voice's music section, he brought in
        Chuck Eddy who was an excellent music editor and pushed them out of
        their indie-underground ghetto (covering among other things, country,
        which has gone a long way to revise rock crit's old anti-Nashville bias)
        and who was also fired. The people who fired them, all evidence seems
        clear, knew little and cared less about what made these people good or
        valuable contributors to criticism. They only cared that they weren't
        young and glib-snappy, which is what they think works in weeklies, and
        they wanted the coverage to get more ghettoized to indie and dance music
        and celebrity sniping that the educated young demographic they're after
        is presumed to want.

        So in short, yeah, I think it was a bad thing, and it sets a terrible
        precedent for those of us who imagine this as a field that (1) you might
        make a living (life) in; and (2) actually means a little bit of
        something. Which is why protesting it seems worthwhile.

        carl w.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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