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[Fantasy Fiction Dungeon] Re: Discussion

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  • Matt
    I think i was talking to you. What were we talking about? lol. Ah, Robert Jordan. I agree with everything you said, though i thought everything up to Fires of
    Message 1 of 59 , Aug 3, 2005
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      I think i was talking to you. What were we talking about? lol. Ah,
      Robert Jordan. I agree with everything you said, though i thought
      everything up to Fires of Heaven or Lord of Chaos was really good. A
      Crown of Swords is when everything degenerated into cliche driven
      muck.

      I think the point is the minor subcharacters, the meandering plots,
      the world spanning world building, the convoluted politicing and
      romantic fluffyness, and the unsympathetic, whiny characters. It
      wears on me and don't have the time like i did 15 years ago to wade
      through everything. What is the publish date on the Eye of the
      World, anyway? 1990?

      Tad Williams and Martin write the way i would like to write. I'm
      more snappy in my dialog and description than they are, but that
      came from training and dogged deliberation. In my youth, i could
      write lyrical circles that meandered all over the place. Too bad i
      can't mix them both together. Still trying to find that magical
      formula.

      --- In fantasyfictiondungeon@yahoogroups.com, karl barnes
      <priestvyrce@y...> wrote:
      > Are talking to me, Matt? I'll answer as if you were. I've only
      read the first Goodkind book and found a mess. The characters
      motivations seemed to be a bit cockeyed and strained. Rahl was such
      dull and droll villain that I had a hard time taking him seriously.
      As with Jordan, his descriptions were endless, his Aes Sadi(sp?)
      came off as being arrogant and seemed to be almost as bad as the
      villians, the heroes were so stereo-typical and uninteresting. I
      actually got half way through "The Dragon Born"(I think that was the
      title) , when I just put the book down and never had the urge to
      pick it up again.
      >
      > For both of these authors, it was a labor to wade through their
      verbage and unnecessarily twisting and turning plots. When they
      seemed to be going somewhere with the story, they cut to some sub-
      plot that was never really gotten back too, until the next book or
      it was so miniumal that you didn't really need it in the story. I'm
      sorry, if I'm being general, but it has been years, since I've read
      these books(somewhere around the mid/late 90s).
      >
      > And yes, Martin and Willaims novels ar huge, but I breezed
      through them without having my attention wandering. Plus, their
      characters came alive to me. They didn't come off as stereo-typical,
      eventhough you could see both authors using the archetypal
      characters, Williams with silly boy, who becomes the heero and
      Martin with his foreshadowing with the Dire wolves and giving one
      side of certain characters and later revealing more about said
      characters, especially Tyrion and Jamie.
      >
      > Though there are some readers, who swear by both Jordan and
      Goodkind, I can't see the appeal. There just doesn't seem to be any
      pay off or end in sight with these two authors. I could be wrong,
      but that is how I see it.
      >
      > Matt <gauvaine@y...> wrote:
      > Well, can you elaborate on that? I think you're correct. I would
      > throw Tad Williams into that category of writing and character
      over
      > fluffy nonsense that goes nowhere.
      >
      > It's not always easy to make your characters 3 dimensional, even
      > harder when you have 30 sub characters that you throw in that add
      > nothing to the overall story. Jordan drives me crazy with that. I
      > can't keep all the names straight.
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In fantasyfictiondungeon@yahoogroups.com, karl barnes
      > <priestvyrce@y...> wrote:
      > > Well, one fundemental difference is that Martin, though slow,
      is
      > by far a more interesting and competent writer. His characters
      don't
      > come off as false or as puppets dancing to his tune.That's just
      from
      > the top of my head.
      > >
      > > Matt <gauvaine@y...> wrote:Okay, i'm going to throw a hand
      grenade
      > and see what comes to the
      > > surface.
      > >
      > > What are the fundamental differences between Robert Jordan,
      George
      > > Martin, and Terry Goodkind?
      > >
      > > They all write long, unending epic novels with tons of world
      > > building, a cast of thousands, and meandering plots that are
      more
      > > convoluted than a Gordian knot. Why do we keep buying these
      > things?
      > > And is there some formula inherent in their makeup that they
      must
      > > follow?
      > >
      > > I'm just curious. I stop reading Jordan at Path of Daggers,
      which
      > > i'm halfway through. Martin, i got tired of waiting for A Feast
      of
      > > Crows to come forth after waiting 5 years after Storm of Swords
      > was
      > > published. And Terry Goodkind cranks his out every year, like
      > > clockwork. Or every 14 to 16 months, depending.
      > >
      > > Is it time for a new torch to be passed to someone else, say
      > Michael
      > > Stackpole, Sean McMullen, Kevin Anderson, to name a few?
      > >
      > > I only say this because it's cyclic. When i was in highschool,
      > Terry
      > > Brooks, David Eddings, Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis were the
      > > novelists of the moment.
      > >
      > >
      > >
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    • Marc Vun Kannon
      Absolutely, but not monologues. I prefer dialog to just about everything, and actions. Descriptive prose is something I avoid like the plague. I prefer what
      Message 59 of 59 , Aug 10, 2005
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        Absolutely, but not monologues. I prefer dialog to just about everything, and actions. Descriptive prose is something I avoid like the plague. I prefer what I call experiential prose, in which the scene is not merely described, usually from the author's pov, but instead described as the character currently in focus is experiencing it. Since different people perceive different things in different ways, this makes the description part of the character development. It also makes everything more active and interesting, since I don't describe a State which by itself is valueless, but instead speak of an Act of Perceiving that State, which is the important part.
        Additionally, the dialog we were speaking of was intended to describe the author's own viewpoint, usually political or social. There are better ways to do that. Nothing sticks out more than a paragraph or two clumsily inserted.

        Saje <soulsaje@...> wrote:
        Dialogue works better than exposition.


        Saje Williams
        Author of the Infinity: Earth Saga
        Book I "Loki's Sin" available now
        http://www.wingsepress.com OR
        http://www.sajewilliams.com


        Marc Vun Kannon

        http://www.marcvunkannon.com

        Unbinding the Stone--Making lemonade from fantasy lemons
        Coming in October, 2005--A Warrior Made.
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