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Re: [Fantasy Fiction Dungeon] Re: Harry Potter

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  • Matt Baker
    I think the press hyped up the major character dying angle, to raise the awareness of the book, as if that was needed. Initially, i thought it was going to
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 3, 2003
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      I think the press hyped up the "major character dying" angle, to raise the awareness of the book, as if that was needed. Initially, i thought it was going to be Hagrid, or even Ron or Hermione . . . but i think people would have hated that, so she had to eliminate a minor character.

      Ice Dragon <allipony@...> wrote:Well, the clues were there along the way in the book. It happened
      near the end of the book, and I don't think that they played the
      death enough. I mean, so Harry destroys some stuff in dumbledore's
      office, and that is the end of that. I think that the person could
      come back later, too. It seemed kind of rushed near the end, though.

      Alli

      --- In fantasyfictiondungeon@yahoogroups.com, Matt Baker
      <gauvaine@y...> wrote:
      > About the death, JKR mentioned that she cried when she wrote that
      scene and it was so hard, blah, blah, blah. What was hard about it?
      It happened in two pages and was a minor aside to what was going on.
      And she wimped out and left it open to the person coming back later,
      i think. It wasn't that traumatic to me. And, like you, i suspected
      that's who it was before i even picked the book up.
      >
      > Ice Dragon <allipony@y...> wrote:Hmmm. I liked the cover of Harry
      Potter, the Canadian version at
      > least. Of course, I like the cover of the Fionavar tapestry
      better,
      > but I haven't read the book yet. I spend 1/2 an hour staring at
      the
      > cover. I am such a sucker when it comes to dragons...
      >
      > Anyways, where was I? Ah yes, Harry Potter. Well, one aspect of
      > Harry that I always found extaordinary was his kindness and his
      > sense of innocence while living with his evil aunt, uncle, and
      > cousin. After being locked in a closet for most of his life, you
      > would think that some flaw in his personality would come out in
      the
      > first 3 books. Just like Oliver Twist, Harry is more of a symbol
      in
      > the first few books.
      >
      > I agree with what you said about Harry's mood swings and temper in
      > this book. Personally, I found it a drastic change compared to the
      > first four books. All of a sudden, even before they get anywhere
      > near the train to go to hogwarts, Harry has lost his temper
      numerous
      > times, and doesn't listen to the voice of reason.
      >
      > The death that takes place (just incase somepeople haven't read
      it,
      > I woun't say who), I was expecting it would be who it was for most
      > of the way, and I found it to take place all of a sudden, a little
      > too quickly for my taste. No blood either. Of course, this is
      > supposed to be a children's book, so I suppose that it can't be
      > saturated in blood...
      >
      > Overall, though, it was ok, but not worth all of the hype that it
      > got.
      >
      > Alli
      >
      > --- In fantasyfictiondungeon@yahoogroups.com, "Matt"
      <gauvaine@y...>
      > wrote:
      > > Harry Potter and the Meaning of Life
      > > Usually, i don't give book reviews. After all, every person is
      > > different, their opinions fluttering here and there like mad
      ducks
      > on
      > > the wing, meandering all over a bright blue sky. But with all
      the
      > > recent madness of the launch of HPATOOTP (Harry Potter and Order
      > the
      > > Phoenix, for the uninitiated)i deemed it noteworthy to post my
      > > thoughts, unfocused as they might be.
      > >
      > > Keep in mind that Potterage is supposedly meant for kids, ie,
      > > adolescents and teens, though it's obvious every demographic is
      > > affected by this phoenomenon. So, an adult point of view might
      > seem
      > > superflous. However, being that 90 percent of the books
      purchased
      > > since last week have undoubtedly been done so by adults doing so
      > for
      > > themselves, their childen and grandchildren, maybe it should be
      > given
      > > some consideration. A smidgen. Just a drop.
      > >
      > > Like Goblet of Fire, OTP (Order of the Phoenix, for short) was a
      > > hefty tome of myraid characters and further setting development
      > and
      > > overall story arch as it relates to YOU-KNOW-WHO. It seems to me
      > that
      > > the last two books have been more along this theme then the
      stand-
      > > alone, gripping adventures of the previous three books. Of
      course,
      > > the first three books were an excellent adventure of a boy
      trying
      > to
      > > find his place in two worlds, haunted by his past; the last two
      > books
      > > are of a marketing juggernaut trying to make the world shout out
      > the
      > > words, "ching, ching!"
      > >
      > > Has JKR started to believe her own immortality and
      infallibility?
      > Has
      > > she lost her focus as a writer and embraced the capitalist ethic
      > of
      > > intrepid entreprise? Who knows, but it seems obvious that more
      is
      > > definitely not better.
      > >
      > > Our intrepid hero, our noble man thrust once more unto the
      breach,
      > > dear friends . . . is a belligerent, whining, spastic, bi-polar
      > git.
      > > How the mighty have fallen. Within the 879 pages, I am quite
      > certain
      > > that Harry lost his temper 1234 times. I'm not sure. That comes
      > out
      > > to 1.4 times per page. Anger management therapy is definitely an
      > > option in book six, rumored to be titled "Harry Potter and the
      Bi-
      > > Polar Flubberworms of Death."
      > >
      > > Granted, 15 year old boys are moody and conflicted with hormones
      > and
      > > tangled emotions, but not like this manic depressive Munchausen
      > > Syndrome candidate. Our modest Harry, our victim of
      circumstance,
      > our
      > > protector of the common weal, makes Bronte's Heathcliff look
      like
      > > Tony Robbins. He fumes. He rages. He yells. When he is not being
      > > quiet, self-absorbed, and withdrawn. A couple of times he was
      > happy
      > > and smiled. Such mood swings are symptoms of something alot more
      > > serious than pubescent metamorphosis. Maybe Madame Pomfrey has
      > some
      > > Paxil or Prozac in the medical wing of Hogwarts that she can
      grind
      > up
      > > into some Bertie Bott's Every Flavor beans.
      > >
      > > Of course, the whole gang was in this book, plus some new faces.
      > > Sirius Black, Professor Lupin, Mad-Eye Moody, the Weasley's and
      > > Malfoys. Even Dobby turned up here and there. All good things,
      if
      > not
      > > a bit disappointing for their 2-dimensional standing.
      > > Characterization is not one of JFK's strongpoints, afterall.
      > > Protagonists don't protag as much as they are steered by
      secondary
      > > characters that have no life or color to them.
      > >
      > > For example, after nearly losing his life and still being in
      > mortal
      > > danger, Arthur Weasley had no epiphanies or emotional outbursts.
      > > Neither did his wife. It seems emotion is only sparked from
      Molly
      > > Weasley when she is needed for comic relief to yell at Fred or
      > > George, or just to yell in general. She visits her husband in
      the
      > > hospital and pats him on the shoulder after his near murder. No
      > > tears. No emotional scenes of love and endearment. That would
      have
      > > been too deep and normal. I guess only Muggles act like they
      have
      > > commmitted, loving relationships and not the stock, juvenile
      > > gobbledygook that represents life in the adult world of JFK's
      > books.
      > >
      > > Her attempt at darkness and making Harry have to overcome real
      > world,
      > > life and death choices, has turned into a mish mash of bad
      > > characterization, inconsistent theme, and long-winded plotting.
      > It's
      > > a disappointment.
      > >
      > > Having said that, there are, of course, some highpoints. Ron and
      > > Hermione had more to do, though they still remain 2 dimenionsal,
      > as
      > > does everyone else, though some clarity was given to Snape and
      his
      > > hatred of everything Potter. Neville Longbottom had a larger
      role
      > to
      > > play, as did Ginny Weasley and several others. Dumbledore was
      > absent
      > > until the end, when there was the rollicking, Gunfight at the
      O.K.
      > > Coral finale. And Hagrid was a non-entity except to fill a plot
      > hole
      > > that Rowling had backed herself into and couldn't seem to get
      out
      > of
      > > very adroitly.
      > >
      > > There was alot to this book. Alot happening. And nothing
      > happening.
      > > That's the only way to explain it. Much Ado About Nothing. It
      was
      > > like watching the Matrix Reloaded. It was okay, but you knew
      that
      > > there was another movie coming that was going to be alot more
      > clearer
      > > and exciting. Treading water. The rumors of writer's block were
      > true,
      > > i'm afraid. A post-adolescent diatribe about the merits of fame,
      > > fortune and destiny only can go so far. Dialogue, characters,
      and
      > > theme . . . they all matter. You can't coast on expectation and
      > fame.
      > > Even Harry knows that.
      >
      >
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    • Ice Dragon
      Well, I don t know about the rest of you, but I really didn t consider the character who died to be that major. I mean, he doesn t come up that often. When I
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 4, 2003
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        Well, I don't know about the rest of you, but I really didn't
        consider the character who died to be that major. I mean, he doesn't
        come up that often. When I first heard that someone was going to
        die, though, I thought that it was going to be maybe Dumbledore or
        someone like that, but once I started reading the book it became
        more obvious.

        --- In fantasyfictiondungeon@yahoogroups.com, Matt Baker
        <gauvaine@y...> wrote:
        > I think the press hyped up the "major character dying" angle, to
        raise the awareness of the book, as if that was needed. Initially, i
        thought it was going to be Hagrid, or even Ron or Hermione . . . but
        i think people would have hated that, so she had to eliminate a
        minor character.
        >
        > Ice Dragon <allipony@y...> wrote:Well, the clues were there along
        the way in the book. It happened
        > near the end of the book, and I don't think that they played the
        > death enough. I mean, so Harry destroys some stuff in dumbledore's
        > office, and that is the end of that. I think that the person could
        > come back later, too. It seemed kind of rushed near the end,
        though.
        >
        > Alli
        >
        > --- In fantasyfictiondungeon@yahoogroups.com, Matt Baker
        > <gauvaine@y...> wrote:
        > > About the death, JKR mentioned that she cried when she wrote
        that
        > scene and it was so hard, blah, blah, blah. What was hard about
        it?
        > It happened in two pages and was a minor aside to what was going
        on.
        > And she wimped out and left it open to the person coming back
        later,
        > i think. It wasn't that traumatic to me. And, like you, i
        suspected
        > that's who it was before i even picked the book up.
        > >
        > > Ice Dragon <allipony@y...> wrote:Hmmm. I liked the cover of
        Harry
        > Potter, the Canadian version at
        > > least. Of course, I like the cover of the Fionavar tapestry
        > better,
        > > but I haven't read the book yet. I spend 1/2 an hour staring at
        > the
        > > cover. I am such a sucker when it comes to dragons...
        > >
        > > Anyways, where was I? Ah yes, Harry Potter. Well, one aspect of
        > > Harry that I always found extaordinary was his kindness and his
        > > sense of innocence while living with his evil aunt, uncle, and
        > > cousin. After being locked in a closet for most of his life, you
        > > would think that some flaw in his personality would come out in
        > the
        > > first 3 books. Just like Oliver Twist, Harry is more of a symbol
        > in
        > > the first few books.
        > >
        > > I agree with what you said about Harry's mood swings and temper
        in
        > > this book. Personally, I found it a drastic change compared to
        the
        > > first four books. All of a sudden, even before they get anywhere
        > > near the train to go to hogwarts, Harry has lost his temper
        > numerous
        > > times, and doesn't listen to the voice of reason.
        > >
        > > The death that takes place (just incase somepeople haven't read
        > it,
        > > I woun't say who), I was expecting it would be who it was for
        most
        > > of the way, and I found it to take place all of a sudden, a
        little
        > > too quickly for my taste. No blood either. Of course, this is
        > > supposed to be a children's book, so I suppose that it can't be
        > > saturated in blood...
        > >
        > > Overall, though, it was ok, but not worth all of the hype that
        it
        > > got.
        > >
        > > Alli
        > >
        > > --- In fantasyfictiondungeon@yahoogroups.com, "Matt"
        > <gauvaine@y...>
        > > wrote:
        > > > Harry Potter and the Meaning of Life
        > > > Usually, i don't give book reviews. After all, every person is
        > > > different, their opinions fluttering here and there like mad
        > ducks
        > > on
        > > > the wing, meandering all over a bright blue sky. But with all
        > the
        > > > recent madness of the launch of HPATOOTP (Harry Potter and
        Order
        > > the
        > > > Phoenix, for the uninitiated)i deemed it noteworthy to post my
        > > > thoughts, unfocused as they might be.
        > > >
        > > > Keep in mind that Potterage is supposedly meant for kids, ie,
        > > > adolescents and teens, though it's obvious every demographic
        is
        > > > affected by this phoenomenon. So, an adult point of view might
        > > seem
        > > > superflous. However, being that 90 percent of the books
        > purchased
        > > > since last week have undoubtedly been done so by adults doing
        so
        > > for
        > > > themselves, their childen and grandchildren, maybe it should
        be
        > > given
        > > > some consideration. A smidgen. Just a drop.
        > > >
        > > > Like Goblet of Fire, OTP (Order of the Phoenix, for short) was
        a
        > > > hefty tome of myraid characters and further setting
        development
        > > and
        > > > overall story arch as it relates to YOU-KNOW-WHO. It seems to
        me
        > > that
        > > > the last two books have been more along this theme then the
        > stand-
        > > > alone, gripping adventures of the previous three books. Of
        > course,
        > > > the first three books were an excellent adventure of a boy
        > trying
        > > to
        > > > find his place in two worlds, haunted by his past; the last
        two
        > > books
        > > > are of a marketing juggernaut trying to make the world shout
        out
        > > the
        > > > words, "ching, ching!"
        > > >
        > > > Has JKR started to believe her own immortality and
        > infallibility?
        > > Has
        > > > she lost her focus as a writer and embraced the capitalist
        ethic
        > > of
        > > > intrepid entreprise? Who knows, but it seems obvious that more
        > is
        > > > definitely not better.
        > > >
        > > > Our intrepid hero, our noble man thrust once more unto the
        > breach,
        > > > dear friends . . . is a belligerent, whining, spastic, bi-
        polar
        > > git.
        > > > How the mighty have fallen. Within the 879 pages, I am quite
        > > certain
        > > > that Harry lost his temper 1234 times. I'm not sure. That
        comes
        > > out
        > > > to 1.4 times per page. Anger management therapy is definitely
        an
        > > > option in book six, rumored to be titled "Harry Potter and the
        > Bi-
        > > > Polar Flubberworms of Death."
        > > >
        > > > Granted, 15 year old boys are moody and conflicted with
        hormones
        > > and
        > > > tangled emotions, but not like this manic depressive
        Munchausen
        > > > Syndrome candidate. Our modest Harry, our victim of
        > circumstance,
        > > our
        > > > protector of the common weal, makes Bronte's Heathcliff look
        > like
        > > > Tony Robbins. He fumes. He rages. He yells. When he is not
        being
        > > > quiet, self-absorbed, and withdrawn. A couple of times he was
        > > happy
        > > > and smiled. Such mood swings are symptoms of something alot
        more
        > > > serious than pubescent metamorphosis. Maybe Madame Pomfrey has
        > > some
        > > > Paxil or Prozac in the medical wing of Hogwarts that she can
        > grind
        > > up
        > > > into some Bertie Bott's Every Flavor beans.
        > > >
        > > > Of course, the whole gang was in this book, plus some new
        faces.
        > > > Sirius Black, Professor Lupin, Mad-Eye Moody, the Weasley's
        and
        > > > Malfoys. Even Dobby turned up here and there. All good things,
        > if
        > > not
        > > > a bit disappointing for their 2-dimensional standing.
        > > > Characterization is not one of JFK's strongpoints, afterall.
        > > > Protagonists don't protag as much as they are steered by
        > secondary
        > > > characters that have no life or color to them.
        > > >
        > > > For example, after nearly losing his life and still being in
        > > mortal
        > > > danger, Arthur Weasley had no epiphanies or emotional
        outbursts.
        > > > Neither did his wife. It seems emotion is only sparked from
        > Molly
        > > > Weasley when she is needed for comic relief to yell at Fred or
        > > > George, or just to yell in general. She visits her husband in
        > the
        > > > hospital and pats him on the shoulder after his near murder.
        No
        > > > tears. No emotional scenes of love and endearment. That would
        > have
        > > > been too deep and normal. I guess only Muggles act like they
        > have
        > > > commmitted, loving relationships and not the stock, juvenile
        > > > gobbledygook that represents life in the adult world of JFK's
        > > books.
        > > >
        > > > Her attempt at darkness and making Harry have to overcome real
        > > world,
        > > > life and death choices, has turned into a mish mash of bad
        > > > characterization, inconsistent theme, and long-winded
        plotting.
        > > It's
        > > > a disappointment.
        > > >
        > > > Having said that, there are, of course, some highpoints. Ron
        and
        > > > Hermione had more to do, though they still remain 2
        dimenionsal,
        > > as
        > > > does everyone else, though some clarity was given to Snape and
        > his
        > > > hatred of everything Potter. Neville Longbottom had a larger
        > role
        > > to
        > > > play, as did Ginny Weasley and several others. Dumbledore was
        > > absent
        > > > until the end, when there was the rollicking, Gunfight at the
        > O.K.
        > > > Coral finale. And Hagrid was a non-entity except to fill a
        plot
        > > hole
        > > > that Rowling had backed herself into and couldn't seem to get
        > out
        > > of
        > > > very adroitly.
        > > >
        > > > There was alot to this book. Alot happening. And nothing
        > > happening.
        > > > That's the only way to explain it. Much Ado About Nothing. It
        > was
        > > > like watching the Matrix Reloaded. It was okay, but you knew
        > that
        > > > there was another movie coming that was going to be alot more
        > > clearer
        > > > and exciting. Treading water. The rumors of writer's block
        were
        > > true,
        > > > i'm afraid. A post-adolescent diatribe about the merits of
        fame,
        > > > fortune and destiny only can go so far. Dialogue, characters,
        > and
        > > > theme . . . they all matter. You can't coast on expectation
        and
        > > fame.
        > > > Even Harry knows that.
        > >
        > >
        > > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
        > >
        > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > > fantasyfictiondungeon-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        > Service.
        > >
        > >
        > >
        > > "For better or worse, you have been marked."
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------
        > > Do you Yahoo!?
        > > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
        > fantasyfictiondungeon-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
        Service.
        >
        >
        >
        > "For better or worse, you have been marked."
        >
        > ---------------------------------
        > Do you Yahoo!?
        > SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Matt
        A couple of weeks ago, book critic David Kipen wrote a not so flattering review of Harry Potter and the quest for more royalties, er, the Half-Blood Prince.
        Message 3 of 7 , Aug 1, 2005
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          A couple of weeks ago, book critic David Kipen wrote a not so
          flattering review of Harry Potter and the quest for more royalties,
          er, the Half-Blood Prince. Subsequently, he received hate mail from
          rabid J.K. Rowling zealots and Harry Potter followers.

          Heres an interesting rebuttal article:

          http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?
          f=/c/a/2005/07/26/DDGBKDSBJR1.DTL
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