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  • Bob
    My name is Bob and my daughter s name is Kasie. She is going to be 4 in March. When she was born, she was in the NICU for 13 days because she would
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 18, 2008
      My name is Bob and my daughter's name is Kasie. She is going to be 4
      in March. When she was born, she was in the NICU for 13 days because
      she would desaturate when she was feeding. My wife and I were told
      that she had reflux, and we finally were sent home with some medicine
      that I dont remember the name of. Anyways, she would never sleep, and
      cry all the time. About 6 months went by and she wasn't making the
      gains she need to be making, and we knew this because we also have an
      12 year old that was diagnosed with CP at 17 months. We enrolled her
      in Early Intervention as developmentally delayed. We met with
      psychologist and the words that were used were "mental retardation"
      but it was too soon to tell anything. She has never been into playing
      with anything and not we have never been able to engage her in
      anything. She has avery very short attention span sometimes as little
      as 20 or 30 seconds. She also is very moody, one minute she can be
      totally happy and then turn like a switch was turned on. She always
      tapped people and things but started throwing herself, kicking and
      screaming.
      Last year about this time, we met with the developmental center
      that we use for our son and they helped us get a timed schedule down,
      which took a bit, and Kasie started to sleep thru the night. She also
      started a 12 1 1 classroom last year which also helped. In August, she
      had run a fever and her attitude turned changed. She got worse. She
      started hitting herself and other not litely at all. I would say very
      intentional. about 5 days later she woke up from a nap and was
      crying, all black and blue around her face, and mouth bleeding swollen
      lips. She beat her self. We called the doctors and they put her on
      Risperadol. For a week straight, we literally had to hold her hands
      down in our lap to prevent her from hitting herself. Since then,
      things have gotten better for a week or so then worse again, and
      medicine is increased. It has been a circle. We have resorted to a
      helmet to protect her little head. She has also started to fall to
      her knees when she walks, so she doesnt walk much at all. We hold her
      hands and she is fine, but if you let go it is almost like she is
      scared.
      We had some genetic testing done back in October, of the sort I
      am not sure, but whatever they tested for came back negative. They
      gave her the title of PDDNOS and I believe these test were of the
      Autistic nature. When they came back negative, we went to a
      specialist (this was last week) who deals with features and could
      possibly diagnose. When we met with him this week, he thinks could
      not say for sure, but was pretty sure she has Angelman Syndrome. More
      genetics testing is being done, and he said he should have something
      in about 4 to 6 weeks. When we got home we did some internet
      searches, and she has many of the characteristics of it, (as well as
      many of Autism etc), but she is not happy. I read sometimes the
      happiness can be asserted as agitation and was wondering if anyone
      knows anything about that or if anyone has a child like this and can
      help us with some behavior modification?
      My wife and I are at our whits ends and know that maybe
      eventually we will come out of this.
      Any and all suggestions and ideas being accepted.

      PS. Thanks for letting me in your group.

      Bob.
    • momanddad Warnock
      Bob, First let me start by saying God Bless You and you will be in our families prayers. I have personally never heard of a child with Angelman Syndrome
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 19, 2008
        Bob,
        First let me start by saying God Bless You and you will be in our families prayers. I have personally never heard of a child with Angelman Syndrome displaying this sort of behavior.The early description of AS is "Puppet like syndrome". AS kids are very happy and I would dispute that it is due to aggitation. I believe that many years ago, when there was less understanding about AS that they were always described as having inappropriate fits of laughter, but as years have gone by and more is understood, I genuinely believe our AS kids are happy. I wish you and your family the very best and it will be interesting to see if Kasie has AS,
        Take care, and I am sure I can speak for anyone in this group, AS or not you will always be welcome here.
        Jean (Robert 19 del+)

        Bob <cornish1991@...> wrote:
        My name is Bob and my daughter's name is Kasie. She is going to be 4
        in March. When she was born, she was in the NICU for 13 days because
        she would desaturate when she was feeding. My wife and I were told
        that she had reflux, and we finally were sent home with some medicine
        that I dont remember the name of. Anyways, she would never sleep, and
        cry all the time. About 6 months went by and she wasn't making the
        gains she need to be making, and we knew this because we also have an
        12 year old that was diagnosed with CP at 17 months. We enrolled her
        in Early Intervention as developmentally delayed. We met with
        psychologist and the words that were used were "mental retardation"
        but it was too soon to tell anything. She has never been into playing
        with anything and not we have never been able to engage her in
        anything. She has avery very short attention span sometimes as little
        as 20 or 30 seconds. She also is very moody, one minute she can be
        totally happy and then turn like a switch was turned on. She always
        tapped people and things but started throwing herself, kicking and
        screaming.
        Last year about this time, we met with the developmental center
        that we use for our son and they helped us get a timed schedule down,
        which took a bit, and Kasie started to sleep thru the night. She also
        started a 12 1 1 classroom last year which also helped. In August, she
        had run a fever and her attitude turned changed. She got worse. She
        started hitting herself and other not litely at all. I would say very
        intentional. about 5 days later she woke up from a nap and was
        crying, all black and blue around her face, and mouth bleeding swollen
        lips. She beat her self. We called the doctors and they put her on
        Risperadol. For a week straight, we literally had to hold her hands
        down in our lap to prevent her from hitting herself. Since then,
        things have gotten better for a week or so then worse again, and
        medicine is increased. It has been a circle. We have resorted to a
        helmet to protect her little head. She has also started to fall to
        her knees when she walks, so she doesnt walk much at all. We hold her
        hands and she is fine, but if you let go it is almost like she is
        scared.
        We had some genetic testing done back in October, of the sort I
        am not sure, but whatever they tested for came back negative. They
        gave her the title of PDDNOS and I believe these test were of the
        Autistic nature. When they came back negative, we went to a
        specialist (this was last week) who deals with features and could
        possibly diagnose. When we met with him this week, he thinks could
        not say for sure, but was pretty sure she has Angelman Syndrome. More
        genetics testing is being done, and he said he should have something
        in about 4 to 6 weeks. When we got home we did some internet
        searches, and she has many of the characteristics of it, (as well as
        many of Autism etc), but she is not happy. I read sometimes the
        happiness can be asserted as agitation and was wondering if anyone
        knows anything about that or if anyone has a child like this and can
        help us with some behavior modification?
        My wife and I are at our whits ends and know that maybe
        eventually we will come out of this.
        Any and all suggestions and ideas being accepted.

        PS. Thanks for letting me in your group.

        Bob.






        ---------------------------------
        Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • mccswanny_66@shaw.ca
        Hey Bob, My name is Robin, my daughter Carly has AS, she is 14. She displays some similar patterns as Kasie. She hits herself very hard in the head and bangs
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 19, 2008
          Hey Bob,
          My name is Robin, my daughter Carly has AS, she is 14. She displays some similar patterns as Kasie. She hits herself very hard in the head and bangs her arm, elbow, or hand very hard into walls or furniture. She has dented most of the drywall in our home and has 3 big holes in her bedroom door. She has mood swings quite frequently as she will be playing on the computer for instance and then all of a sudden she will smash the computer door with her hand and then start crying for no reason that I can see. If we try to hug her when this is going on she will do her best to hurt us. We usually just let her cool off on her own and then she will be fine. It seems like she has a build up of emotions that need to explode once and awhile, after the explosion she is better. Over the years she has adopted many different behaviors such as pulling out her hair and eating it, eating any string or hair off of cloths, the floor, the dog etc, pulling my hair, sitting down in the middle of walking, even if there is snow on the ground, peeing her pants at school, pushing the chairs over and rearranging the furniture, biting her hand she has been doing this one since she was a baby and has a very big callous on her hand. It seems that as soon as she finds a new behavior she will stick with it for a few months to a year or so. She also has a very high pain tollerance, she cut her haed open one day and did not cry or indicate the any thing was wrong until I tried to comb her hair and the blood was dryed. Then I took her to the hospital for stitched and she laughed the whole time!!! We are very lucky because she at least sleeps all night and she has no seizures. I empathize with your family. I know how tough it is and there will be many up's and down's but you will make it. If you have any questions please feel free to e-mail me anytime. Please know that you are not alone. Take care Robin
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Bob
          To: familiesofangelmansyndrome@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 9:58 PM
          Subject: [Families of Angelman Syndrome] asking for ideas??


          My name is Bob and my daughter's name is Kasie. She is going to be 4
          in March. When she was born, she was in the NICU for 13 days because
          she would desaturate when she was feeding. My wife and I were told
          that she had reflux, and we finally were sent home with some medicine
          that I dont remember the name of. Anyways, she would never sleep, and
          cry all the time. About 6 months went by and she wasn't making the
          gains she need to be making, and we knew this because we also have an
          12 year old that was diagnosed with CP at 17 months. We enrolled her
          in Early Intervention as developmentally delayed. We met with
          psychologist and the words that were used were "mental retardation"
          but it was too soon to tell anything. She has never been into playing
          with anything and not we have never been able to engage her in
          anything. She has avery very short attention span sometimes as little
          as 20 or 30 seconds. She also is very moody, one minute she can be
          totally happy and then turn like a switch was turned on. She always
          tapped people and things but started throwing herself, kicking and
          screaming.
          Last year about this time, we met with the developmental center
          that we use for our son and they helped us get a timed schedule down,
          which took a bit, and Kasie started to sleep thru the night. She also
          started a 12 1 1 classroom last year which also helped. In August, she
          had run a fever and her attitude turned changed. She got worse. She
          started hitting herself and other not litely at all. I would say very
          intentional. about 5 days later she woke up from a nap and was
          crying, all black and blue around her face, and mouth bleeding swollen
          lips. She beat her self. We called the doctors and they put her on
          Risperadol. For a week straight, we literally had to hold her hands
          down in our lap to prevent her from hitting herself. Since then,
          things have gotten better for a week or so then worse again, and
          medicine is increased. It has been a circle. We have resorted to a
          helmet to protect her little head. She has also started to fall to
          her knees when she walks, so she doesnt walk much at all. We hold her
          hands and she is fine, but if you let go it is almost like she is
          scared.
          We had some genetic testing done back in October, of the sort I
          am not sure, but whatever they tested for came back negative. They
          gave her the title of PDDNOS and I believe these test were of the
          Autistic nature. When they came back negative, we went to a
          specialist (this was last week) who deals with features and could
          possibly diagnose. When we met with him this week, he thinks could
          not say for sure, but was pretty sure she has Angelman Syndrome. More
          genetics testing is being done, and he said he should have something
          in about 4 to 6 weeks. When we got home we did some internet
          searches, and she has many of the characteristics of it, (as well as
          many of Autism etc), but she is not happy. I read sometimes the
          happiness can be asserted as agitation and was wondering if anyone
          knows anything about that or if anyone has a child like this and can
          help us with some behavior modification?
          My wife and I are at our whits ends and know that maybe
          eventually we will come out of this.
          Any and all suggestions and ideas being accepted.

          PS. Thanks for letting me in your group.

          Bob.






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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Meredith Villarreal
          Bob, Hi my daughter Triniti is 4 as well. Triniti also hits herself in the head though she has never beat herself black and blue. SHe it also VERY aggressive
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 19, 2008
            Bob,
            Hi my daughter Triniti is 4 as well. Triniti also hits herself in the head though she has never beat herself black and blue. SHe it also VERY aggressive with other people. SHe hits, kicks pinches bites, ect. you name it she does it. She is also very strong for her age. She has given me and my husband a black eye more than once! I do think that it some ways it is her happiness manifesting in this way because she can have a big smile on her face and then lean over and bite me. If I don't say anything she walks away like nothing happened but if I tell her it hurts she goes into complete melt down mode like I offended her by not enjoying it. Most doctors have told me that aggression is a symptom that should always be adressed but when I do adress it she than is in melt down mode and results to hitting hersoe and throwing her self on the ground or hitting the dog or her baby sister to get back at me for not liking it. I have been looking into getting her
            A.B.A. theramy which is an extream behavior therapy usually only used for autistic children but not many places provide it and it is hard to get the insurance to pay for it.You may want to check to see if there is somthing like this in your area. I can not say for your daughter but my girl has NO speech and I think her behavior stems from not being able to comunicate her thoughts. I believe if she had this type of therapy she would respond great to it. Let me know how your angel is doing. Feel free to email anytime.
            Meredith


            ----- Original Message ----
            From: Bob <cornish1991@...>
            To: familiesofangelmansyndrome@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, February 18, 2008 10:58:04 PM
            Subject: [Families of Angelman Syndrome] asking for ideas??

            My name is Bob and my daughter's name is Kasie. She is going to be 4
            in March. When she was born, she was in the NICU for 13 days because
            she would desaturate when she was feeding. My wife and I were told
            that she had reflux, and we finally were sent home with some medicine
            that I dont remember the name of. Anyways, she would never sleep, and
            cry all the time. About 6 months went by and she wasn't making the
            gains she need to be making, and we knew this because we also have an
            12 year old that was diagnosed with CP at 17 months. We enrolled her
            in Early Intervention as developmentally delayed. We met with
            psychologist and the words that were used were "mental retardation"
            but it was too soon to tell anything. She has never been into playing
            with anything and not we have never been able to engage her in
            anything. She has avery very short attention span sometimes as little
            as 20 or 30 seconds. She also is very moody, one minute she can be
            totally happy and then turn like a switch was turned on. She always
            tapped people and things but started throwing herself, kicking and
            screaming.
            Last year about this time, we met with the developmental center
            that we use for our son and they helped us get a timed schedule down,
            which took a bit, and Kasie started to sleep thru the night. She also
            started a 12 1 1 classroom last year which also helped. In August, she
            had run a fever and her attitude turned changed. She got worse. She
            started hitting herself and other not litely at all. I would say very
            intentional. about 5 days later she woke up from a nap and was
            crying, all black and blue around her face, and mouth bleeding swollen
            lips. She beat her self. We called the doctors and they put her on
            Risperadol. For a week straight, we literally had to hold her hands
            down in our lap to prevent her from hitting herself. Since then,
            things have gotten better for a week or so then worse again, and
            medicine is increased. It has been a circle. We have resorted to a
            helmet to protect her little head. She has also started to fall to
            her knees when she walks, so she doesnt walk much at all. We hold her
            hands and she is fine, but if you let go it is almost like she is
            scared.
            We had some genetic testing done back in October, of the sort I
            am not sure, but whatever they tested for came back negative. They
            gave her the title of PDDNOS and I believe these test were of the
            Autistic nature. When they came back negative, we went to a
            specialist (this was last week) who deals with features and could
            possibly diagnose. When we met with him this week, he thinks could
            not say for sure, but was pretty sure she has Angelman Syndrome. More
            genetics testing is being done, and he said he should have something
            in about 4 to 6 weeks. When we got home we did some internet
            searches, and she has many of the characteristics of it, (as well as
            many of Autism etc), but she is not happy. I read sometimes the
            happiness can be asserted as agitation and was wondering if anyone
            knows anything about that or if anyone has a child like this and can
            help us with some behavior modification?
            My wife and I are at our whits ends and know that maybe
            eventually we will come out of this.
            Any and all suggestions and ideas being accepted.

            PS. Thanks for letting me in your group.

            Bob.





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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • carathomas24
            Hi Bob,I just wanted to reply to the comment u made about your daughter not having the happy demeaner being dominant,my son is 5,I didn t think he had the
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 19, 2008
              Hi Bob,I just wanted to reply to the comment u made about your
              daughter not having the happy demeaner being dominant,my son is 5,I
              didn't think he had the happy thing goin on all the time either,and
              hes very moody,hits people,he can be so happy and then turn to so
              mean.........your daughter has alot of characteristics that I'm not
              familiar with,but us parents of AS children have some serious
              challenges we too face.Your not alone and things will get easier to
              handle and better to deal with!Hope you guys come to accurate
              diagnosis with your daughter soon,I'm sure she brings out
              strengthening points in your lives you never knew you had......
            • jenrysdam
              First I want to say that I m sorry your daughter is having such a hard time. It must be heartbreaking for you. (((((HUGS))))) Please, please, please check out
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 20, 2008
                First I want to say that I'm sorry your daughter is having such a
                hard time. It must be heartbreaking for you. (((((HUGS)))))
                Please, please, please check out this other yahoo group
                http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/GFCFKids/
                It is a bunch of parents that have put their kids on Gluten
                Free/Casein Free diets but it's also a lot of parents dealing with
                Autism. You will be amazed at how effective these parents have
                learned to treat their kids' Autism.
                My advice would be to try dietary changes. Visit feingold.com and
                read about how artificial flavors, colors and preservatives can
                affect behavior. Autism and ADHD have a lot in common with the
                behaviors and chemical imbalances. I have noticed a huge difference
                in my son with ADHD and also have noticed a lot more interaction with
                my daughter that has a clinical Angelman diagnosis. Even trying it
                for 2 weeks you'll see a big difference in her behaviors.
                Best Wishes and please email me if you have any quesitons.
                Jennifer
                Mom to 4 and soon one more through another adoption.



                --- In familiesofangelmansyndrome@yahoogroups.com, "Bob"
                <cornish1991@...> wrote:
                >
                > My name is Bob and my daughter's name is Kasie. She is going to be
                4
                > in March. When she was born, she was in the NICU for 13 days
                because
                > she would desaturate when she was feeding. My wife and I were told
                > that she had reflux, and we finally were sent home with some
                medicine
                > that I dont remember the name of. Anyways, she would never sleep,
                and
                > cry all the time. About 6 months went by and she wasn't making the
                > gains she need to be making, and we knew this because we also have
                an
                > 12 year old that was diagnosed with CP at 17 months. We enrolled
                her
                > in Early Intervention as developmentally delayed. We met with
                > psychologist and the words that were used were "mental retardation"
                > but it was too soon to tell anything. She has never been into
                playing
                > with anything and not we have never been able to engage her in
                > anything. She has avery very short attention span sometimes as
                little
                > as 20 or 30 seconds. She also is very moody, one minute she can be
                > totally happy and then turn like a switch was turned on. She always
                > tapped people and things but started throwing herself, kicking and
                > screaming.
                > Last year about this time, we met with the developmental center
                > that we use for our son and they helped us get a timed schedule
                down,
                > which took a bit, and Kasie started to sleep thru the night. She
                also
                > started a 12 1 1 classroom last year which also helped. In August,
                she
                > had run a fever and her attitude turned changed. She got worse.
                She
                > started hitting herself and other not litely at all. I would say
                very
                > intentional. about 5 days later she woke up from a nap and was
                > crying, all black and blue around her face, and mouth bleeding
                swollen
                > lips. She beat her self. We called the doctors and they put her on
                > Risperadol. For a week straight, we literally had to hold her hands
                > down in our lap to prevent her from hitting herself. Since then,
                > things have gotten better for a week or so then worse again, and
                > medicine is increased. It has been a circle. We have resorted to
                a
                > helmet to protect her little head. She has also started to fall to
                > her knees when she walks, so she doesnt walk much at all. We hold
                her
                > hands and she is fine, but if you let go it is almost like she is
                > scared.
                > We had some genetic testing done back in October, of the sort I
                > am not sure, but whatever they tested for came back negative. They
                > gave her the title of PDDNOS and I believe these test were of the
                > Autistic nature. When they came back negative, we went to a
                > specialist (this was last week) who deals with features and could
                > possibly diagnose. When we met with him this week, he thinks could
                > not say for sure, but was pretty sure she has Angelman Syndrome.
                More
                > genetics testing is being done, and he said he should have something
                > in about 4 to 6 weeks. When we got home we did some internet
                > searches, and she has many of the characteristics of it, (as well as
                > many of Autism etc), but she is not happy. I read sometimes the
                > happiness can be asserted as agitation and was wondering if anyone
                > knows anything about that or if anyone has a child like this and can
                > help us with some behavior modification?
                > My wife and I are at our whits ends and know that maybe
                > eventually we will come out of this.
                > Any and all suggestions and ideas being accepted.
                >
                > PS. Thanks for letting me in your group.
                >
                > Bob.
                >
              • Sonya OBrien
                Anyone feel free to correct me but couldn t her rage/tantrums be a seizure? Sonya jenrysdam wrote: First I want to say that I m sorry
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 21, 2008
                  Anyone feel free to correct me but couldn't her rage/tantrums be a seizure?
                  Sonya

                  jenrysdam <jenrysdam@...> wrote:
                  First I want to say that I'm sorry your daughter is having such a
                  hard time. It must be heartbreaking for you. (((((HUGS)))))
                  Please, please, please check out this other yahoo group
                  http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/GFCFKids/
                  It is a bunch of parents that have put their kids on Gluten
                  Free/Casein Free diets but it's also a lot of parents dealing with
                  Autism. You will be amazed at how effective these parents have
                  learned to treat their kids' Autism.
                  My advice would be to try dietary changes. Visit feingold.com and
                  read about how artificial flavors, colors and preservatives can
                  affect behavior. Autism and ADHD have a lot in common with the
                  behaviors and chemical imbalances. I have noticed a huge difference
                  in my son with ADHD and also have noticed a lot more interaction with
                  my daughter that has a clinical Angelman diagnosis. Even trying it
                  for 2 weeks you'll see a big difference in her behaviors.
                  Best Wishes and please email me if you have any quesitons.
                  Jennifer
                  Mom to 4 and soon one more through another adoption.

                  --- In familiesofangelmansyndrome@yahoogroups.com, "Bob"
                  <cornish1991@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > My name is Bob and my daughter's name is Kasie. She is going to be
                  4
                  > in March. When she was born, she was in the NICU for 13 days
                  because
                  > she would desaturate when she was feeding. My wife and I were told
                  > that she had reflux, and we finally were sent home with some
                  medicine
                  > that I dont remember the name of. Anyways, she would never sleep,
                  and
                  > cry all the time. About 6 months went by and she wasn't making the
                  > gains she need to be making, and we knew this because we also have
                  an
                  > 12 year old that was diagnosed with CP at 17 months. We enrolled
                  her
                  > in Early Intervention as developmentally delayed. We met with
                  > psychologist and the words that were used were "mental retardation"
                  > but it was too soon to tell anything. She has never been into
                  playing
                  > with anything and not we have never been able to engage her in
                  > anything. She has avery very short attention span sometimes as
                  little
                  > as 20 or 30 seconds. She also is very moody, one minute she can be
                  > totally happy and then turn like a switch was turned on. She always
                  > tapped people and things but started throwing herself, kicking and
                  > screaming.
                  > Last year about this time, we met with the developmental center
                  > that we use for our son and they helped us get a timed schedule
                  down,
                  > which took a bit, and Kasie started to sleep thru the night. She
                  also
                  > started a 12 1 1 classroom last year which also helped. In August,
                  she
                  > had run a fever and her attitude turned changed. She got worse.
                  She
                  > started hitting herself and other not litely at all. I would say
                  very
                  > intentional. about 5 days later she woke up from a nap and was
                  > crying, all black and blue around her face, and mouth bleeding
                  swollen
                  > lips. She beat her self. We called the doctors and they put her on
                  > Risperadol. For a week straight, we literally had to hold her hands
                  > down in our lap to prevent her from hitting herself. Since then,
                  > things have gotten better for a week or so then worse again, and
                  > medicine is increased. It has been a circle. We have resorted to
                  a
                  > helmet to protect her little head. She has also started to fall to
                  > her knees when she walks, so she doesnt walk much at all. We hold
                  her
                  > hands and she is fine, but if you let go it is almost like she is
                  > scared.
                  > We had some genetic testing done back in October, of the sort I
                  > am not sure, but whatever they tested for came back negative. They
                  > gave her the title of PDDNOS and I believe these test were of the
                  > Autistic nature. When they came back negative, we went to a
                  > specialist (this was last week) who deals with features and could
                  > possibly diagnose. When we met with him this week, he thinks could
                  > not say for sure, but was pretty sure she has Angelman Syndrome.
                  More
                  > genetics testing is being done, and he said he should have something
                  > in about 4 to 6 weeks. When we got home we did some internet
                  > searches, and she has many of the characteristics of it, (as well as
                  > many of Autism etc), but she is not happy. I read sometimes the
                  > happiness can be asserted as agitation and was wondering if anyone
                  > knows anything about that or if anyone has a child like this and can
                  > help us with some behavior modification?
                  > My wife and I are at our whits ends and know that maybe
                  > eventually we will come out of this.
                  > Any and all suggestions and ideas being accepted.
                  >
                  > PS. Thanks for letting me in your group.
                  >
                  > Bob.
                  >






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