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Solicitation of Introduction

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  • stephen@shieldsplace.org
    Hi everyone! Thanks for your interest in faithmaps. I created this site and this discussion group as a resource for pastors and Christian leaders to discuss
    Message 1 of 18 , May 16, 2001
      Hi everyone!

      Thanks for your interest in faithmaps. I created this site and this
      discussion group as a resource for pastors and Christian leaders to
      discuss theology, leadership, discipleship and church life in what's
      being called postmodernity.

      Couple of things to note. If you go to

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/faithmaps

      and click on "delivery options" you can receive emails one-by-one,
      receive one email a day (when there's activity) as a digest that
      contains links to every individual email sent, or receive no emails
      at all and read discuss when you wish by visiting

      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/faithmaps.

      It's customary in mailing lists for all new participants to send out
      a couple of words of introduction and their interest in the
      discussion purpose of the list.

      Many of you know me, but I haven't met all of you. Until very
      recently I was a bi-vocational pastor serving Cedar Ridge Community
      Church in Spencerville, MD and working with Brian McLaren. I
      currently work for USA TODAY as a Technical Manager. I've been with
      USA TODAY since 1988.

      I have special interests in Christian leadership, discipleship,
      spiritual friendship, and the way postmodern insights can correct a
      modernized evangelicalism. At the same time I'm very concerned many
      are too enamoured of the postmodern turn and are wedding Christian
      thought and praxis to the lastest philosophical fashion. I've given
      a more fuller expression to this in my Delights and Dangers articles
      on the faithmaps site (linked to the Next Wave zine) and I've been
      adding articles on postmodernity to faithmaps that represent
      different perspectives.

      I've been following Christ for 22 years, hold an M. Div from Grace
      Theological Seminary, have been married to Bethany Jones Shields for
      almost 10 years and have three girls: Michaela (5), Skye (3), and
      Alia (1). My undergraduate degree is in Classical and Koine Greek
      and Bible.

      At some point, I would be very interested in exploring with you the
      idea of an "irreducable complexity" or - to use Pauline language -
      the "good deposit" which is "the pattern of sound teaching" (2 Tim.
      1:13,14). Some today are calling for evangelical boundaries; others
      are saying efforts spent toward considering such boundaries are
      energies mis-spent.

      I'm also interested in discussing how we pursue making disciples of
      Jesus Christ and nurturing spiritual friendships.

      So please take a moment to introduce yourself and let us know what
      you'd like to talk about!

      Stephen Shields
      sshields@...
      http://www.faithmaps.org
    • Stilwell, Rick
      OK, I ll bite. Hi, Stephen - I m Rick, just a southern boy tired of religion for religion s sake. Sometime over the past five years or so, as God has called me
      Message 2 of 18 , May 16, 2001
        OK, I'll bite.
         
        Hi, Stephen - I'm Rick, just a southern boy tired of religion for religion's sake. Sometime over the past five years or so, as God has called me to ministry (Assoc. Pastor of Community, CWO in Columbia, SC), He's also been opening my eyes to how this cultural thing called "postmodernism" might be more open to the Truth then the previous generations. Like other probably on this list, I started questioning things - questions too big or difficult for my "church" but not for God. I grabbed both sides of paradoxes; I loved finding contradictions that made sense. And I read alot. Len Sweet, Kevin Graham Ford and Douglas Coupland for insight into the change I was feeling in me and around me, and Dutch Sheets, Tommy Tenney and Rick Joyner for changes I was sensing in my spiritual make-up.
         
        I'm looking for a way to be meaningful to the people around me. I'm looking for a real way to worship in Spirit - spiritual gifts, healing, tongues, the apostolic, etc - and in Truth - strong Bible, transforming prayer, intercession.
         
        Thanks for the forum! - rick
        Rick Stilwell
        CWO Pastor of Community
        church 803.254.6400
        mobile 803.240.5006
        http://www.columbiaworldoutreach.com
        mailto:rick@...
        mailto:1j13-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
         
      • Takushi, Jane
        Hi there-- My name is Jane Takushi and I go to Cedar Ridge Community Church, where Stephen used to work. Actually, I used to work there too--more in the
        Message 3 of 18 , May 17, 2001
          Hi there--

          My name is Jane Takushi and I go to Cedar Ridge Community Church, where
          Stephen used to work. Actually, I used to work there too--more in the
          worship arena. Now I work at Highland Technologies in Training and
          Organizational Development. I've been married to Eric--my dearest, best
          friend--and we have a dog named Nelson. If you're a "Simpsons" fan, it may
          interest you to know that he was named after Nelson Muntz.

          I started to hear about post modernity when I first came to Cedar Ridge. It
          was a bit daunting, as it was flying in the face of my dispensational,
          leaning-towards-Bible-worship background. The thing that I've appreciated
          about Cedar Ridge--and indeed about post modernity--is that it constantly
          calls me to examine what I believe to be "biblical." I'm finding that much
          of what I had in the past labeled as biblical has really been my preference,
          or my modern framework. (And I say that as a person who really does believe
          in the authority of the Bible.)

          I'm looking forward to hearing and learning from you all. As I said, my
          bent leans towards helping people experience God in worship.

          Take care--
          Jane

          -----Original Message-----
          From: stephen@... [mailto:stephen@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2001 10:48 PM
          To: faithmaps@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [faithmaps] Solicitation of Introduction


          Hi everyone!

          Thanks for your interest in faithmaps. I created this site and this
          discussion group as a resource for pastors and Christian leaders to
          discuss theology, leadership, discipleship and church life in what's
          being called postmodernity.

          Couple of things to note. If you go to

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/faithmaps

          and click on "delivery options" you can receive emails one-by-one,
          receive one email a day (when there's activity) as a digest that
          contains links to every individual email sent, or receive no emails
          at all and read discuss when you wish by visiting

          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/faithmaps.

          It's customary in mailing lists for all new participants to send out
          a couple of words of introduction and their interest in the
          discussion purpose of the list.

          Many of you know me, but I haven't met all of you. Until very
          recently I was a bi-vocational pastor serving Cedar Ridge Community
          Church in Spencerville, MD and working with Brian McLaren. I
          currently work for USA TODAY as a Technical Manager. I've been with
          USA TODAY since 1988.

          I have special interests in Christian leadership, discipleship,
          spiritual friendship, and the way postmodern insights can correct a
          modernized evangelicalism. At the same time I'm very concerned many
          are too enamoured of the postmodern turn and are wedding Christian
          thought and praxis to the lastest philosophical fashion. I've given
          a more fuller expression to this in my Delights and Dangers articles
          on the faithmaps site (linked to the Next Wave zine) and I've been
          adding articles on postmodernity to faithmaps that represent
          different perspectives.

          I've been following Christ for 22 years, hold an M. Div from Grace
          Theological Seminary, have been married to Bethany Jones Shields for
          almost 10 years and have three girls: Michaela (5), Skye (3), and
          Alia (1). My undergraduate degree is in Classical and Koine Greek
          and Bible.

          At some point, I would be very interested in exploring with you the
          idea of an "irreducable complexity" or - to use Pauline language -
          the "good deposit" which is "the pattern of sound teaching" (2 Tim.
          1:13,14). Some today are calling for evangelical boundaries; others
          are saying efforts spent toward considering such boundaries are
          energies mis-spent.

          I'm also interested in discussing how we pursue making disciples of
          Jesus Christ and nurturing spiritual friendships.

          So please take a moment to introduce yourself and let us know what
          you'd like to talk about!

          Stephen Shields
          sshields@...
          http://www.faithmaps.org


          To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          faithmaps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



          Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        • Chris G Criminger
          Hi Stephen and all, I am the preaching minister of Vallonia Christian Church and just a little shy of forty :-) I have been studying postmodern thought for
          Message 4 of 18 , May 17, 2001
            Hi Stephen and all,
            I am the preaching minister of Vallonia Christian Church and just a
            little shy of forty :-) I have been studying postmodern thought for
            almost five years reading everything from Evangelicals from Groothuis
            "Truth Decay" to Middleton * Walsh's " Truth is Stranger than it Used to
            Be" and two excellent books for laymen and church leaders to examine
            would be Brian McLaren "The Church on the other Side" and Chuck Smith
            Jr., "The End of the World . . . As We Know It" (Leonard Sweet's books
            are also recommended :-) [I have also tried to read several of the
            primary sources of several postmodern guru's which is a long and
            difficult project to say the least].

            I am what some call a post-conservative who leans towards postliberal
            theology (my whole educational and ministry experience has been and still
            is within Evangelicalism).
            I think there are many more Evangelicals today than ever who are looking
            for more proactive ways to deal with our culture and are open towards and
            leaning in the post-conservative direction. There are extremes on both
            sides but hopefully a wide enough middle for many lively discussions and
            threads :-)

            Grace and Peace to all - Chris Criminger
            Vallonia Indiana



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          • sshields@faithmaps.org
            This is certainly not a requirement, but I did want to encourage the new folk (or those of you who haven t posted one yet) out there to send an intro, if you
            Message 5 of 18 , Jun 23, 2001
              This is certainly not a requirement, but I did want to encourage the
              new folk (or those of you who haven't posted one yet) out there to
              send an intro, if you might be so inclined. Stuff like:

              Name
              Church (if applicable)
              your interest in faithmaps
              how you spend your time (job or avocation)
              influences
              favorite books
              anything else you wish to share!


              But no pressure - lurking is fine.

              And welcome to faithmaps!

              Stephen Shields
              sshields@...
              http://www.faithmaps.org
            • Art Mealer
              Art Mealer, Durham, NC Involved in house church Joined faithmaps for discussion of Christian leadership, discipleship, and church life in postmodernity. Do
              Message 6 of 18 , Jun 24, 2001
                Art Mealer, Durham, NC
                Involved in "house church"
                Joined faithmaps for "discussion of Christian leadership, discipleship, and
                church life in postmodernity.
                Do various things in industry to support my family -typically in business
                and technology- but live for working with church organizational and
                leadership development issues. Presently focused on doing some writing over
                the next 18 months.
                Favorite books: Proverbs, Ephesians, The Leadership Challenge (Kouzes and
                Posner, and their new book, Credibility), Built to Last (Collins and Porras,
                although I prefer their more concentrated articles on leadership, vision and
                values that resulted in the book). Probably another twenty or thirty books
                on organizational and leadership issues (attending Regent University towards
                a masters in organizational leadership).

                "Anything else" categories:
                Believe strongly that the church as we know it is as faithful and close to
                God's plan as was Israel- totally a mess, in bondage and defeat through
                chasing the idols of human methods and means, and turning traditions into
                things that end up opposing scriptural principles.

                Believe strongly in an itinerate function as normative in the church, and in
                relying outrageously on God's wisdom ("outrageous" as it seems when measured
                alongside human methodologies- who would march seven days around a fortified
                enemy city?).

                Believe the church needs drastic change and repentance, returning to simple
                faith and holiness. My expectation is that some will return to a biblical
                style of being a disciple, of being the church together (again similar to
                Israel, where about 5% returned from the Babylonian Captivity).

                These issues are briefly addressed at my website:
                http://www.church-task-force.org

                -Art Mealer
                Durham, NC
              • beth ellen brickey
                I have posted before but not much in the way of sharing. My name is Beth Ellen Nagel. I recently married and moved to Wisconsin from Arizona. It is a
                Message 7 of 18 , Jun 26, 2001
                  I have posted before but not much in the way of sharing.

                  My name is Beth Ellen Nagel. I recently married and moved to Wisconsin from
                  Arizona. It is a temporary move. I am still looking for a church but at
                  this point it looks like either a PCA near by or a RPCNA much further away.
                  Undecided.

                  I have always loved discussing ideas. But for a little history...

                  At age 11 I became aware of my need for God and his redemption in Christ. I
                  have gone through many trials and struggles since then the likes of which I
                  could not account here. One major transitional change in my thinking came
                  during my early 20's when I was attending a Sourthern Baptist Church. I
                  often longed to learn more and also had an intuition of sorts that there was
                  more to Christianity than I was experiencing. I use to go down into the
                  church library and read all kinds of things from the early church fathers to
                  theology books (Hodge) to Kierkegaard. Once I discovered the complete
                  works of Francis Schaeffer. They did not look they were read much but I
                  started reading them and it was like a huge light came on and I almost felt
                  born again "again". I could never see the world and Christianity quite the
                  same. That was the beginning of my studies in philosophy and apologetics.
                  Francis helped me to see that we can speak to men where they are in an
                  intrinsic and meaningful way and not just merely throwing the Book at them
                  so to speak.

                  The second transitional change came when I found a teacher who was much like
                  Francis Schaeffer but who has a different view on epistimology. But I am
                  still in the process of reading more of VanTil and Clark and so on to
                  clarify just where I am at.

                  Faithmaps caught my eye because I am interested in the ideas and how
                  faithmaps focuses resources for dialogue. I have had an interest in
                  postmodernism as well. I am not sure about some of the epistemological
                  underpinnings of faithmaps at this point. I am here to ask questions/learn
                  and to share what meager insights I might have, if I do indeed have any at
                  all.

                  Aside from being a new wife and learning to yield to God's design in
                  marriage I am a artist of sorts. I hand coil pots and paint designs. I also
                  play classical guitar but that has taken a back seat lately. I have
                  composed a few things here and there. I have written some poetry. I want
                  to bring the art back into focus in my life and find new direction for what
                  I do. Any other artists out there to discuss this with?

                  I am currently getting ready for a move and will be a bit busy but hope I
                  can engage some of the ideas better when time allows.

                  This sharing is woefully incomplete Stephen but the best I can do right now!

                  Regards,

                  Beth Ellen


                  >From: sshields@...
                  >Reply-To: faithmaps@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: faithmaps@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: [faithmaps] Solicitation of Introduction
                  >Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2001 22:26:11 -0000
                  >
                  >This is certainly not a requirement, but I did want to encourage the
                  >new folk (or those of you who haven't posted one yet) out there to
                  >send an intro, if you might be so inclined. Stuff like:
                  >
                  >Name
                  >Church (if applicable)
                  >your interest in faithmaps
                  >how you spend your time (job or avocation)
                  >influences
                  >favorite books
                  >anything else you wish to share!
                  >
                  >
                  >But no pressure - lurking is fine.
                  >
                  >And welcome to faithmaps!
                  >
                  >Stephen Shields
                  >sshields@...
                  >http://www.faithmaps.org
                  >
                  >
                  >You can visit the faithmaps Yahoo groups web site to modify your
                  >delivery settings and review former messages @
                  >
                  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/faithmaps
                  >
                  >Here you can set your delivery settings so that you
                  >
                  >1 - receive every individual e-mail (the default setting), or
                  >2 - only receive one email a day that is a digest of all that day's e-mail
                  >activity, or
                  >3 - never receive any e-mails! If you select this option you can still
                  >remain a member of the group and view all e-mails at your leisure online at
                  >
                  >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/faithmaps
                  >
                  >If you do not wish to belong to faithmaps, you may
                  >unsubscribe at any time by sending an email to
                  >
                  >faithmaps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >

                  _________________________________________________________________
                  Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                • Art Mealer
                  ... From: beth ellen brickey I want to bring the art back into focus in my life and find new direction for what I do. Any other
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jun 26, 2001
                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "beth ellen brickey" <bethelmundi@...>
                    I want to bring the art back into focus in my life and find new direction
                    for what
                    I do. Any other artists out there to discuss this with?
                    ***************************************

                    Hi Beth Ellen!

                    I oil paint, sculpt in clay and wax, and write poetry. In fact, I recently
                    left a very good job as technology director to return to a calling I feel
                    for writing. Now I am a starving artist, afraid for sure, but also excited
                    and expectant.

                    I am working on a book with a dear friend on the issues of trust, and
                    working on my own book about the cost of discipleship as seen in the lives
                    of various biblical characters (sort of a stripping away of the mystique,
                    and opening up the reality of their faith journeys).

                    Here's an Easter poem I wrote recently, but of course, it ain't finished
                    (what poem ever is!):

                    Lenten Vigil

                    The damp chill
                    of an early dew
                    settles quietly
                    onto the garden
                    and halos form
                    as moonlight
                    glimmers in the leaves
                    of the old fig twisting upwards,
                    while warm light washes down
                    onto the Lamb
                    lifting His face
                    to deeply drink
                    from an offered cup
                    with trembling lips,
                    spilling droplets
                    that wetly glisten
                    like a ruby studded veil
                    covering His hour of fear
                    and only angels watch,
                    doubly stricken,
                    as we in slumber rest
                    unable to answer
                    His only plea
                    for one hour
                    more of prayer.

                    -Art Mealer
                    Durham, NC
                  • beth ellen brickey
                    Art, Enjoyed the poem. The imagery is right on. Thank you for sharing. Looks like we will have to discuss art in the days to come. When you get a chance go
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jun 27, 2001
                      Art,

                      Enjoyed the poem. The imagery is right on. Thank you for sharing. Looks
                      like we will have to discuss art in the days to come.

                      When you get a chance go to:

                      http://y42.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/thebnelle/lst?&.dir=/My+Photos&.src=bc&.view=l

                      These are some earlier pots. Feel free to email me.

                      Look forward to hearing more about what you are doing and thinking as it
                      relates to Faithmaps.

                      Take care,

                      Beth Ellen




                      >From: "Art Mealer" <art.mealer@...>
                      >Reply-To: faithmaps@yahoogroups.com
                      >To: <faithmaps@yahoogroups.com>
                      >Subject: Re: [faithmaps] Solicitation of Introduction
                      >Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 17:45:23 -0400
                      >
                      >----- Original Message -----
                      >From: "beth ellen brickey" <bethelmundi@...>
                      >I want to bring the art back into focus in my life and find new direction
                      >for what
                      >I do. Any other artists out there to discuss this with?
                      >***************************************
                      >
                      >Hi Beth Ellen!
                      >
                      >I oil paint, sculpt in clay and wax, and write poetry. In fact, I recently
                      >left a very good job as technology director to return to a calling I feel
                      >for writing. Now I am a starving artist, afraid for sure, but also excited
                      >and expectant.
                      >
                      >I am working on a book with a dear friend on the issues of trust, and
                      >working on my own book about the cost of discipleship as seen in the lives
                      >of various biblical characters (sort of a stripping away of the mystique,
                      >and opening up the reality of their faith journeys).
                      >
                      >Here's an Easter poem I wrote recently, but of course, it ain't finished
                      >(what poem ever is!):
                      >
                      >Lenten Vigil
                      >
                      >The damp chill
                      >of an early dew
                      >settles quietly
                      >onto the garden
                      >and halos form
                      >as moonlight
                      >glimmers in the leaves
                      >of the old fig twisting upwards,
                      >while warm light washes down
                      >onto the Lamb
                      >lifting His face
                      >to deeply drink
                      >from an offered cup
                      >with trembling lips,
                      >spilling droplets
                      >that wetly glisten
                      >like a ruby studded veil
                      >covering His hour of fear
                      >and only angels watch,
                      >doubly stricken,
                      >as we in slumber rest
                      >unable to answer
                      >His only plea
                      >for one hour
                      >more of prayer.
                      >
                      >-Art Mealer
                      >Durham, NC
                      >
                      >
                      >You can visit the faithmaps Yahoo groups web site to modify your
                      >delivery settings and review former messages @
                      >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/faithmaps
                      >
                      >Here you can set your delivery settings so that you
                      >1 - receive every individual e-mail (the default setting), or
                      >2 - only receive one email a day that is a digest of all that day's e-mail
                      >activity, or
                      >3 - never receive any e-mails! If you select this option you can still
                      >remain a member of the group and view all e-mails at your leisure online at
                      >
                      >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/faithmaps
                      >
                      >If you've never signed on to any yahoogroup before, you will need to create
                      >a userid and password. You do this by clicking "register" in the upper
                      >right hand corner of the screen when you go to the web page listed above.
                      >Or if you have registered before, you may need to click "sign in" so that
                      >Yahoo knows who you are.
                      >
                      >If you do not wish to belong to faithmaps, you may
                      >unsubscribe at any time by sending an email to
                      >
                      >faithmaps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      >
                      >

                      _________________________________________________________________
                      Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                    • Art Mealer
                      ... When you get a chance go to: http://y42.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/thebnelle/lst?&.dir=/My+Photos&.src=bc&.vi ew=l ******************************** Oh my!
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jun 27, 2001
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        When you get a chance go to:

                        http://y42.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/thebnelle/lst?&.dir=/My+Photos&.src=bc&.vi
                        ew=l

                        ********************************
                        Oh my! Goodness! How lovely these are! How different each is! I must say,
                        pot number two is my personal favorite, but they are all dramtically
                        beautiful. I could not help thinking about angels viewing we pots here in
                        the journey, painted by scars, marred by impurities, yet adorned with fruit,
                        formed by the hand of a master into a thing of beauty.

                        Thanks Beth Ellen!

                        -Art
                      • beth ellen brickey
                        I hope this don t stray too much from Faithmaps- Perhaps one thing that weighs heavily on me lately is that I have lost my spontanaeity in art. I have been
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jun 27, 2001
                          I hope this don't stray too much from Faithmaps-

                          Perhaps one thing that weighs heavily on me lately is that I have lost my
                          spontanaeity in art. I have been unable to really tap into my intuitions
                          and creativity. Someting is blocking me. If I had devised a Faithmaps of
                          sorts it would have to include this. Right Stephen? Stephen? Where is that
                          guy? :-) Sometimes I feel a huge hole in terms of my personal gift and how
                          to direct it. A lost feeling and while I have intimations of enthusiasm,
                          faint flashes of insight, I can't seem to nail it down and focus. I feel
                          lonely. What is wrong with me? Perhaps once I get the studio going things
                          will open up. I want to write more too. Any words of wisdom out there?
                          How about you Art? In your journey into art and working that through what
                          kind of thought processess are involved? How do you connect it with the
                          whole?

                          Musing solemnly

                          Beth Ellen


                          >From: "Art Mealer" <art.mealer@...>
                          >Reply-To: faithmaps@yahoogroups.com
                          >To: <faithmaps@yahoogroups.com>
                          >Subject: Re: [faithmaps] Solicitation of Introduction
                          >Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2001 08:50:40 -0400
                          >
                          >----- Original Message -----
                          >When you get a chance go to:
                          >
                          >http://y42.briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/thebnelle/lst?&.dir=/My+Photos&.src=bc&.vi
                          >ew=l
                          >
                          >********************************
                          >Oh my! Goodness! How lovely these are! How different each is! I must say,
                          >pot number two is my personal favorite, but they are all dramtically
                          >beautiful. I could not help thinking about angels viewing we pots here in
                          >the journey, painted by scars, marred by impurities, yet adorned with
                          >fruit,
                          >formed by the hand of a master into a thing of beauty.
                          >
                          >Thanks Beth Ellen!
                          >
                          >-Art
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >You can visit the faithmaps Yahoo groups web site to modify your
                          >delivery settings and review former messages @
                          >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/faithmaps
                          >
                          >Here you can set your delivery settings so that you
                          >1 - receive every individual e-mail (the default setting), or
                          >2 - only receive one email a day that is a digest of all that day's e-mail
                          >activity, or
                          >3 - never receive any e-mails! If you select this option you can still
                          >remain a member of the group and view all e-mails at your leisure online at
                          >
                          >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/faithmaps
                          >
                          >If you've never signed on to any yahoogroup before, you will need to create
                          >a userid and password. You do this by clicking "register" in the upper
                          >right hand corner of the screen when you go to the web page listed above.
                          >Or if you have registered before, you may need to click "sign in" so that
                          >Yahoo knows who you are.
                          >
                          >If you do not wish to belong to faithmaps, you may
                          >unsubscribe at any time by sending an email to
                          >
                          >faithmaps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >

                          _________________________________________________________________
                          Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
                        • Art Mealer
                          ... From: beth ellen brickey Perhaps one thing that weighs heavily on me lately is that I have lost my spontanaeity in art. I have
                          Message 12 of 18 , Jun 27, 2001
                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: "beth ellen brickey" <bethelmundi@...>
                            Perhaps one thing that weighs heavily on me lately is that I have lost my
                            spontanaeity in art. I have been unable to really tap into my intuitions
                            and creativity. Someting is blocking me. ...How about you Art? In your
                            journey into art and working that through what kind of thought processess
                            are involved? How do you connect it with the whole?
                            *****************************************
                            Dear Solemn Muser...

                            er, Beth Ellen. It does seem the muse favors troubled times in our souls. I
                            have found that when my heart is deeply hurting, I can be more easily in
                            touch with ...inspiration? When my heart roils in pain, the pen bleeds ink
                            for me.

                            But I have also discovered that during life's journey, beginning very young,
                            I began becoming what other people needed from me, not who I was. I had the
                            messiah thing I suppose. It looks and feels noble enough, and I know for me
                            awful pressures appealed to my nature to act in those ways. What stresses
                            are caused internally when we try to puff ourselves up to 16 feet tall for
                            others, trying desperately to meet their (as I perceived them) expectations
                            of us. What energies we expend. What empty hollowness of soul it brings in
                            the night.

                            I am indeed trying to let all that go, which is why I resigned my job. Great
                            cost. But the greater cost was losing who I was, losing a genuine-ness. I
                            feel, along with being pretty afraid at times, great and deep peace now. I
                            feel I am in touch with who I am, with who He is within me. I began
                            journaling my times with Him. That has proven to be a rich source of
                            connection and honesty.

                            I don't know what may lie in your path Beth Ellen. I do suspect a deep,
                            honest connection with yourself and with Him, an intimate journey, will be
                            of help. It really takes brutal honesty for me. And great willingness to
                            abandon every private hope and dream, the needs to achieve and make one's
                            self worthy in other's eyes, etc, blather, blah, and instead to seek to be
                            simply genuine/authentic. Just me. In a class I was taking, the professor
                            asked us all to introduce who we were. I found myself saying, "I am not-God.
                            This was a revelation for me. I am now so happy to just be this little boy
                            now lingering in the midst of those long, endless summers of youth without
                            aspirations or care. I have a long way yet to go, a lifetime of journeying!

                            -Art
                          • David Hopkins
                            Beloved, Stephen has told me (along with everyone else) to introduce myself to the nice people of Faithmaps. I guess I ll give it a go. My name is David
                            Message 13 of 18 , Jun 29, 2001
                              Beloved,

                              Stephen has told me (along with everyone else) to introduce myself to the
                              nice people of Faithmaps. I guess I'll give it a go.

                              My name is David Gregory Hopkins.

                              If you refer to me by this name, I will answer. If you refer to me by
                              "Dave," I will answer with no confusion. If you refer to me by something
                              other than this, but are shouting in my general direction-- I'll still
                              probably answer. If you do not use a sound at all, but merely tap me on the
                              shoulder-- I'll still answer. If you send me an e-mail, but it refers to
                              many people and has the letters FWD on it-- I will NOT answer. However, if
                              you send me an e-mail and it has my name on it, I will answer.


                              I go to the church event regularly. I am a part of the Church. Sometimes
                              they even let me make decisions that affect everyone else. In our church,
                              we refer to this as "leadership." I do leadership.


                              I am interested in Faithmaps, because Stephen seems like a nice guy. He
                              likes Next-Wave. I like Next-Wave. He likes Antithesis. I like
                              Antithesis. Stephen and I both like USA Today. Although, I've never
                              received a dime from the organization. Stephen has a wife. I will soon
                              have a wife. (With all this stuff in common, we could be friends!)

                              Stephen also attends the church event and is part of the Church... just like
                              me.


                              I spend my time. I'm not always sure WHAT I spend my time on. But I am
                              positive that I do, in fact, spend my time. I seem to spend a lot of my
                              time looking at this glowing screen. When I'm not in front of this glowing
                              screen, I sit in front of another glowing screen in my living room. From
                              this glowing screen in my living room, I can play video games, watch a DVD,
                              or yell at basketball game. I enjoy these events thoroughly. When not in
                              front of glowing screen, I spend the rest of my time in front of other
                              people. I talk with these people, because they refer to me by my name or
                              use some other gesture to show that they want to communicate. Most of these
                              people attend the same church event I do. I especially enjoy talking to
                              people who have never gone to a church event before. I tell them about
                              Jesus and the voices in my head. They think I'm crazy.


                              People in Arlington, Texas give money to the Arlington School Board. In
                              turn, the Arlington School Board gives me the money. I stand in front of
                              younger faces (normally called "students") and we talk about English and the
                              voices in my head. They think I'm crazy as well. But I get paid for this,
                              so I don't mind. When they leave my classroom, they are better at doing the
                              English-event than when they came in. This is called "learning." I don't
                              know how it happens, but it does.


                              I am influenced by Jesus. I am influenced by my parents, who convinced me
                              to be a person-- instead of nothing at all. I am influenced by the glowing
                              screen. But I'm more influenced by the people I meet. For this reason, I
                              am thankful. I'm sometimes influenced by what I eat. And I am also
                              influenced by the church event-- sometimes they even let me speak.

                              I am also easily influenced by books with people's name of the front. Names
                              like Francis Schaeffer, John Piper, R.C. Sproul, J.I. Packer, Lesslie
                              Newbigin, Leonard Sweet, Jean Baudrillard, Marshall McLuhan, Erik Davis,
                              Juliet Schor, Thomas Cahill, Stanley Grenz, and Douglas Coupland are
                              particularly fun. I would like to think I would friends with these people,
                              just like I could be friends with Stephen!

                              I met the man with the name R.C. Sproul. He signed a book of mine and that
                              was the end of our relationship. I also met the man with the name Leonard
                              Sweet. We talked very briefly, but I enjoyed his company. I wish I could
                              have met Francis Schaeffer. However, two of my friends had met him and they
                              enjoyed his company. I would like to meet Douglas Coupland. But he lives
                              in Canada and I don't. Jordan Cooper is from Canada. Maybe they could meet
                              while playing hockey.


                              You can look at my website. Type in http://monkhouse.org/david and your
                              internet browswer should take you there. If this does not work, come to
                              Arlington, Texas. Ask for "David" and someone should be able to help you.

                              I do not think there is anything else I'd wish to share.

                              Thanks! :)

                              Blessings and much love,
                              David


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                            • sshields@faithmaps.org
                              Obviously, I m catching up on my emails! My name is Beth Ellen Nagel My wife s best friend was a Nagel. I think she grew in MD. Once I discovered the
                              Message 14 of 18 , Jun 29, 2001
                                Obviously, I'm catching up on my emails!

                                "My name is Beth Ellen Nagel"

                                My wife's best friend was a Nagel. I think she grew in MD.

                                "Once I discovered the complete
                                works of Francis Schaeffer. "

                                I think for many of us, Schaeffer was our introduction into the fact
                                that one could be a Christian and profoundly intellectual as well.

                                "I am not sure about some of the epistemological
                                underpinnings of faithmaps at this point. "

                                Please be assured that I'm still working this out myself! The only
                                thing I am sure of (regarding epistemology, that is) is that God has
                                spoken and that reliably. Beyond that, I'm still reading, thinking
                                and discussing!

                                Thank you for sharing of yourself with us, Beth Ellen!

                                Stephen Shields
                                sshields@...
                                http://www.faithmaps.org
                              • sshields@faithmaps.org
                                Beth Ellen wrote: I hope this don t stray too much from Faithmaps- Perhaps one thing that weighs heavily on me lately is that I have lost my spontanaeity in
                                Message 15 of 18 , Jun 29, 2001
                                  Beth Ellen wrote:

                                  I hope this don't stray too much from Faithmaps-

                                  Perhaps one thing that weighs heavily on me lately is that I have lost my
                                  spontanaeity in art. I have been unable to really tap into my intuitions
                                  and creativity. Someting is blocking me. If I had devised a
                                  Faithmaps of
                                  sorts it would have to include this. Right Stephen? Stephen? Where
                                  is that
                                  guy? :-) Sometimes I feel a huge hole in terms of my personal gift
                                  and how
                                  to direct it. A lost feeling and while I have intimations of enthusiasm,
                                  faint flashes of insight, I can't seem to nail it down and focus. I
                                  feel
                                  lonely. What is wrong with me? Perhaps once I get the studio going things
                                  will open up. I want to write more too. Any words of wisdom out there?
                                  How about you Art? In your journey into art and working that through
                                  what
                                  kind of thought processess are involved? How do you connect it with the
                                  whole?

                                  Musing solemnly

                                  ------------------------------------------------

                                  Beth, I know (or at least I think I know) that you were exploring the
                                  relevance to faithmaps playfully, but I'd like to make a serious
                                  comment about the relevance, which I actually think is quite profound
                                  (the relevance, not my comment!).

                                  But first of all I want to say that when I talk about faithmaps, I
                                  hope that no one thinks that I'm really trying to be terribly
                                  original. I'm hoping to use a helpful metaphor to stimulate different
                                  kinds of thinking about faith and its relevance to life and thought.
                                  I believe that the "tenets of faithmapping" are found in Scripture,
                                  but in some respects have not been emphasized in some contemporary
                                  thought and practice.

                                  Anyway, having gotten that off my chest, I think that art is *very*
                                  relative to faithmaps and to truth and to God! Mars Hill Audio has a
                                  wonderful 2 tape series on Michael Polanyi (see the Polanyi subsection
                                  of faithmaps' pomo page)

                                  http://www.faithmaps.org/pomophilarticles.htm#Michael%20Polanyi

                                  On that tape they interview two viola makers in illustration of
                                  Polanyi's thesis of how knowledge is transferred. Polanyi studied ...
                                  some kind of artisan, it might have been makers of leather goods, I'm
                                  not recalling - to illustrate the way that knowledge really is xferred
                                  from one individual to another. One of the artisans interviewed
                                  discusses how she learned a difficult concept by listening to her
                                  mentor work it out in wood as he spoke about the process. Her husband
                                  spoke about how he chooses European woods appropriate for violas and
                                  how that he could not possibly create a list for someone to use in
                                  reduplicating his expertise.

                                  I believe that spiritual knowledge is imparted in the same artful way.
                                  It is an impartation of life to life and not just knowledge to knowledge.

                                  And I believe that art helps us to understand truths that transcend
                                  the limits of vocabulary. a couple of years ago, I had the chance to
                                  stand on the top of a peak and get a magnificent 360 degree view
                                  around Mt Ranier in Washington. The peak was about 2x the size of my
                                  office. That kind of vision teaches something about God that can't be
                                  obtained from a theological textbook or a classroom. I believe it is
                                  God's art.

                                  Man's art can have a similar heuristic function. One of the concerns
                                  I have with the Protestant Reformation (though I am a Protestant and
                                  resonant with the reformers concerns) is that some baby was throwing
                                  out with bathwater. Evangelicals, in my opinion, have moved too far
                                  away from art and we need to "rebaptize" it and embrace it and
                                  celebrate it as another way to God. Art is about worship.

                                  for what it's worth,

                                  Stephen Shields
                                  sshields@...
                                  http://www.faithmaps.org
                                • sshields@faithmaps.org
                                  In an obviously abortive attempt to make a point I wrote: One of the concerns I have with the Protestant Reformation (though I am a Protestant and resonant
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Jun 29, 2001
                                    In an obviously abortive attempt to make a point I wrote:

                                    "One of the concerns I have with the Protestant Reformation (though I
                                    am a Protestant and resonant with the reformers concerns) is that
                                    some baby was throwing out with bathwater. "

                                    Some might wonder what in fact the baby was throwing out.

                                    My point might be clearer if I had written

                                    "some baby was *thrown* out with bathwater"

                                    but, then again, perhaps not.

                                    Stephen Shields
                                    sshields@...
                                    http://www.faithmaps.org
                                  • Art Mealer
                                    ... From: My point might be clearer if I had written some baby was *thrown* out with bathwater ************************************
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Jun 29, 2001
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: <sshields@...>
                                      My point might be clearer if I had written

                                      "some baby was *thrown* out with bathwater"
                                      ************************************
                                      Dear Stephen,

                                      I don't want to start a doctrinordinary argumentual, but I'm not sure this
                                      is correct. I am not sure about infant baptism as a general practice unless
                                      the baby has articulated by some giggle his or her ascent to a standard
                                      faith confession (as long as you don't drown the cute critters, I guess it
                                      don't hurt), but I think the mode should be immersion, or at least
                                      sprinkling. I don't hold with baby tossing as a valid mode of this blessed
                                      sacrilege.

                                      -Art Mealer
                                      I read the book, and I didn't see no babies thrown out. That is an old
                                      testament model just for Moses, I think.
                                    • beth ellen brickey
                                      LOL Stephen, The scarey thing is that I understood you the first time! Ha ha... Beth ... _________________________________________________________________ Get
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Jun 29, 2001
                                        LOL Stephen,

                                        The scarey thing is that I understood you the first time!
                                        Ha ha...

                                        Beth


                                        >From: sshields@...
                                        >Reply-To: faithmaps@yahoogroups.com
                                        >To: faithmaps@yahoogroups.com
                                        >Subject: [faithmaps] I, too, find English to be quite difficult
                                        >Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2001 22:26:27 -0000
                                        >
                                        >In an obviously abortive attempt to make a point I wrote:
                                        >
                                        >"One of the concerns I have with the Protestant Reformation (though I
                                        >am a Protestant and resonant with the reformers concerns) is that
                                        >some baby was throwing out with bathwater. "
                                        >
                                        >Some might wonder what in fact the baby was throwing out.
                                        >
                                        >My point might be clearer if I had written
                                        >
                                        >"some baby was *thrown* out with bathwater"
                                        >
                                        >but, then again, perhaps not.
                                        >
                                        >Stephen Shields
                                        >sshields@...
                                        >http://www.faithmaps.org
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >You can visit the faithmaps Yahoo groups web site to modify your
                                        >delivery settings and review former messages @
                                        >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/faithmaps
                                        >
                                        >Here you can set your delivery settings so that you
                                        >1 - receive every individual e-mail (the default setting), or
                                        >2 - only receive one email a day that is a digest of all that day's e-mail
                                        >activity, or
                                        >3 - never receive any e-mails! If you select this option you can still
                                        >remain a member of the group and view all e-mails at your leisure online at
                                        >
                                        >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/faithmaps
                                        >
                                        >If you've never signed on to any yahoogroup before, you will need to create
                                        >a userid and password. You do this by clicking "register" in the upper
                                        >right hand corner of the screen when you go to the web page listed above.
                                        >Or if you have registered before, you may need to click "sign in" so that
                                        >Yahoo knows who you are.
                                        >
                                        >If you do not wish to belong to faithmaps, you may
                                        >unsubscribe at any time by sending an email to
                                        >
                                        >faithmaps-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                                        >
                                        >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        >
                                        >

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