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45377Re: "Open theism"

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  • mattosk1
    Aug 27, 2006
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      Quick note.

      I believe that God does in fact respond to that actions of men and
      women. Starting in Genesis and the fall of mankind we see nothing but
      the responsive actions of God toward man ever since.

      Some years ago a friend of mine ask a very interesting question in
      the midst of discussing many of the ideas of Reformed theology. He
      rhetorically and provokingly asked: Did God predestine all of His
      responses to mankind and their actions?

      The question opened up a lot of reflection for me personally.

      Matt







      --- In faithmaps@yahoogroups.com, "Caroline Wong" <caroline1008@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > On 8/26/06, Peter Attwood <attwoods@...> wrote:
      > > We have many centuries of disputing this matter, and I think we
      should lay to heart that no side in the controversy sounds much like
      the Bible, and that suggests that we share a fundamental
      misunderstanding all around.
      > >
      > > The whole Bible affirms that God is in charge of everything,
      prophesying events in detail that come to pass long after and asking
      in the Proverbs, "Is there evil in a city and the Lord has not done
      it."
      > >
      > Caroline:
      > Can you give a reference for that as I can't find it in my bible.
      > Also, the prophecies were not in detail or obvious as it was only
      > after the fact that people realized how they fit. Ex. Matthew 2:23
      > said "He will be called a Nazarene" but no where in the OT does it
      say
      > that specifically and if it was implied, it was probably an
      > implication that he will be dedicated to the Lord, not necessarily
      > that he would be from Nazareth (which he was, anyhow). Or the
      prophecy
      > in Matthew 2:15 "Out of Egypt, I will call my son" which is a
      > reference to God bringing the Israelites out of Egypt under Moses.
      > This statement in Hosea became messianic prophecy in Matthew. The
      list
      > is endless including the prophecy that he would be betrayed by a
      > friend. He was eventually betrayed by 2, Peter and Judas, on the
      night
      > before he was crucified.
      >
      > Open Theism does not deny the accuracy of long range prophecy
      because
      > God is sovereign and He has the freewill and the might to bring
      events
      > around as He pleases. Open Theism merely says that He also allows
      > human decisions a role within His plans.
      >
      > Here is a counter example for those who believe the Lord's prophecy
      > always comes true no matter what. When the Lord asked Samuel to
      anoint
      > Saul as king, He said Saul will deliver His people from the
      > Philistines. He then filled Saul with the Holy Spirit to enable him
      to
      > do his task. Saul failed, the Holy Spirit left him and David was the
      > king to deliver the people.
      >
      > Peter Attwood
      > > The same Bible testifies of God's disappointment at having made
      man in the days before the flood, and his astonishment that there is
      no justice. The Bible writeres heartily affirm both these truths and
      are not disturbed in the least by what modern minds consider a
      contradiction. I'm still working on it, but I know we'll have it
      right when we would write it up just as they did, not just when we
      can find a way to make it fit somehow.
      >
      > Caroline:
      > Or we could just read the passage as it was written.
      > >
      >
      > Peter Attwood
      > > One very practical outcome for our own lives is that God has
      clearly made a world in which he does not get his own way and is
      indeed quite helpless, being unafraid to do so because he knows that
      he is in fact sovereign and therefore need not exercise control. We
      do see in daily life that the people who have to control everything
      are the same people who indeed are unable to really govern themselves
      and reign in life, while self-control goes with being able to let
      others be free.
      > >
      >
      > Caroline:
      > I agree. If we posit that God always gets His way, then
      universalism is a given
      >
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