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45376Re: [faithmaps] "Open theism"

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  • Caroline Wong
    Aug 27, 2006
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      On 8/26/06, Peter Attwood <attwoods@...> wrote:
      > We have many centuries of disputing this matter, and I think we should lay to heart that no side in the controversy sounds much like the Bible, and that suggests that we share a fundamental misunderstanding all around.
      >
      > The whole Bible affirms that God is in charge of everything, prophesying events in detail that come to pass long after and asking in the Proverbs, "Is there evil in a city and the Lord has not done it."
      >
      Caroline:
      Can you give a reference for that as I can't find it in my bible.
      Also, the prophecies were not in detail or obvious as it was only
      after the fact that people realized how they fit. Ex. Matthew 2:23
      said "He will be called a Nazarene" but no where in the OT does it say
      that specifically and if it was implied, it was probably an
      implication that he will be dedicated to the Lord, not necessarily
      that he would be from Nazareth (which he was, anyhow). Or the prophecy
      in Matthew 2:15 "Out of Egypt, I will call my son" which is a
      reference to God bringing the Israelites out of Egypt under Moses.
      This statement in Hosea became messianic prophecy in Matthew. The list
      is endless including the prophecy that he would be betrayed by a
      friend. He was eventually betrayed by 2, Peter and Judas, on the night
      before he was crucified.

      Open Theism does not deny the accuracy of long range prophecy because
      God is sovereign and He has the freewill and the might to bring events
      around as He pleases. Open Theism merely says that He also allows
      human decisions a role within His plans.

      Here is a counter example for those who believe the Lord's prophecy
      always comes true no matter what. When the Lord asked Samuel to anoint
      Saul as king, He said Saul will deliver His people from the
      Philistines. He then filled Saul with the Holy Spirit to enable him to
      do his task. Saul failed, the Holy Spirit left him and David was the
      king to deliver the people.

      Peter Attwood
      > The same Bible testifies of God's disappointment at having made man in the days before the flood, and his astonishment that there is no justice. The Bible writeres heartily affirm both these truths and are not disturbed in the least by what modern minds consider a contradiction. I'm still working on it, but I know we'll have it right when we would write it up just as they did, not just when we can find a way to make it fit somehow.

      Caroline:
      Or we could just read the passage as it was written.
      >

      Peter Attwood
      > One very practical outcome for our own lives is that God has clearly made a world in which he does not get his own way and is indeed quite helpless, being unafraid to do so because he knows that he is in fact sovereign and therefore need not exercise control. We do see in daily life that the people who have to control everything are the same people who indeed are unable to really govern themselves and reign in life, while self-control goes with being able to let others be free.
      >

      Caroline:
      I agree. If we posit that God always gets His way, then universalism is a given
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