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45375"Open theism"

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  • Peter Attwood
    Aug 26, 2006
      We have many centuries of disputing this matter, and I think we should lay to heart that no side in the controversy sounds much like the Bible, and that suggests that we share a fundamental misunderstanding all around.

      The whole Bible affirms that God is in charge of everything, prophesying events in detail that come to pass long after and asking in the Proverbs, "Is there evil in a city and the Lord has not done it."

      The same Bible testifies of God's disappointment at having made man in the days before the flood, and his astonishment that there is no justice. The Bible writeres heartily affirm both these truths and are not disturbed in the least by what modern minds consider a contradiction. I'm still working on it, but I know we'll have it right when we would write it up just as they did, not just when we can find a way to make it fit somehow.

      One very practical outcome for our own lives is that God has clearly made a world in which he does not get his own way and is indeed quite helpless, being unafraid to do so because he knows that he is in fact sovereign and therefore need not exercise control. We do see in daily life that the people who have to control everything are the same people who indeed are unable to really govern themselves and reign in life, while self-control goes with being able to let others be free.

      -----Original Message-----
      >From: Rick Presley <richard.presley@...>
      >Sent: Aug 25, 2006 9:08 PM
      >To: faithmaps@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [faithmaps] Moderator's Note
      >
      >Caroline,
      >
      >Good thing I wasn't there. I grew up living across the Detroit River from
      >Windsor, listening to godless rock & roll on CKLW and vactioning
      >occassionally up north of the Soo. (Sault Ste. Marie, for you
      >non-Northerners). I musta had my share of the fresh water because I'd a
      >lowered the boom on him.
      >
      >I would say that no only can God fortell any event, but that he is
      >omniscient enough to fortell EVERY event so that no matter what course of
      >action we choose, ultimately his plan will work out. God can afford to be
      >"open" because no matter what we do things are going to be accomplished
      >according to his good pleasure. And then I woudl refer him to Esther 4 where
      >the queen clearly has a choice that has a direct impact on her and her
      >family but not on God's ultiamte plan for Israel.
      >
      >Poor Kenny.
      >
      >rick
      >
      >www.ill-legalism.com
      >
      >
      >On 8/25/06, Caroline Wong <caroline1008@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> Hi Rick;
      >>
      >> I belong to a very Conservative church and last Sunday a guest pastor
      >> spoke on the sovereignty of God and basically said Open
      >> Theism is heresy because if God can not foretell any event, no matter
      >> how minor, then He is not sovereign. Of course, that begs the freewill
      >> questions. He also blamed us Canadians for the open theism heresy.
      >> Must be the fresh water that makes us so radical. Perhaps the South
      >> Park people can add another verse to their Blame Canada song.
      >>
      >> Love,
      >>
      >> Caroline
      >>
      >> On 8/25/06, Rick Presley <richard.presley@...> wrote:
      >> > Caroline,
      >> >
      >> > I hear you loud & clear on this. I'm attending a 5-point GARBC church
      >> and
      >> > agree with Calvinism as far as it goes. Once out of the TULIP patch
      >> though,
      >> > I defy characterization. I've been on Pomoxian, Emergent Theology (was
      >> > Postmodern Theology), Postmodern Christianity, Christian Postmoderns and
      >> > some other more "out there" groups that have really opened my eyes to
      >> some
      >> > authors and ways of thinking that I highly value. While I am comfy in my
      >> > conserviative church, it is really interesting that under their
      >> conservative
      >> > veneer many of them entertain some pretty radical ideas. I think groups
      >> like
      >> > this have fostered the rise of quiet radicals.
      >> >
      >> >
      >> > rick
      >> >
      >>
      >>
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      >
      >
      >--
      >rick
      >
      >www.ill-legalism.com
      >
      >
      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
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