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Re: [XP] write customer tests first

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  • Dakshinamurthy Karra
    On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:42:59 +1300, Keith Nicholas ... Can you think of an example for such a case? -- KD -- Dakshinamurthy Karra CTO, Subex Systems
    Message 1 of 35 , Nov 2, 2004
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      On Tue, 2 Nov 2004 10:42:59 +1300, Keith Nicholas
      <keithnlist@...> wrote:
      > The problem I have with acceptance tests first is it assumes you know the
      > answer before doing any work. Sometimes you do. Sometimes acceptance is
      > defined in very fuzzy terms and you need to have a play with things before
      > you can nail down what is achievable and then what's your criteria for
      > acceptance.

      Can you think of an example for such a case?

      -- KD

      --
      Dakshinamurthy Karra
      CTO, Subex Systems Ltd.(http://www.subexsystems.com)
    • Amir Kolsky
      Yup Amir Kolsky XP& Software
      Message 35 of 35 , Nov 6, 2004
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        Yup

        Amir Kolsky
        XP& Software


        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Kent Beck [mailto:kentb@...]
        >Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 6:16 AM
        >To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: RE: [XP] write customer tests first
        >
        >
        >I misunderstood you. My mistake. What I hear you saying now is
        >that if people are unhappy on an XP team there are serious
        >consequences. Is that accurate?
        >
        >Kent Beck
        >Three Rivers Institute
        >
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: Amir Kolsky [mailto:kolsky@...]
        >> Sent: Friday, November 05, 2004 11:32 AM
        >> To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        >> Subject: RE: [XP] write customer tests first
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >> I said: "You cannot have members of your community unahppy in XP, at
        >> least not for long." It is a matter of fact that some people
        >might be
        >> unhappy as a result of someone's actions, be it you or someone else.
        >> For example, if some new guy gets hired and he happened to sit by a
        >> CRT screen when everyone else has LCD, he'll probably be
        >unhappy. But
        >> that's acceptable. The tradeoffs between reality and happiness are
        >> always there... However, you cannot have any single member of your
        >> community unhappy for a long time as this will cause your team to be
        >> inaffective, or that person to leave.
        >>
        >> One of the worse things you can do is alienate your customer.
        >> Especially if that customer is one of many (which is
        >something that we
        >> have ran across recently). If a customer is consistently ignored he
        >> will be unhappy. You have to indulge that customer in the planning
        >> game (as the lead customer, that is) or he might turn
        >against you. In
        >> our case a customer was trying to do things the XP way (from his
        >> perspective) which went against the wish of another major player. He
        >> lost every time. Eventually he started to voice concerns that the
        >> whole project is going to fail. We had a tough time (As
        >> coaches) to make people understand that even though what he
        >asked for
        >> might not be the *exact* right thing to do next, it was the
        >> politically correct thing to do, and since this calmed
        >things down in
        >> the group, it had business value.
        >
        >
        >
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