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Re: how do you handle differing estimates by team members? [Was]: [XP] More Chal

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... It is. And I d like to have the team know what they spent their time on. And I m in no sense opposed to estimating how much working time is involved in
    Message 1 of 161 , Nov 2, 2004
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      On Monday, November 1, 2004, at 2:52:11 AM, Kent Beck wrote:

      > Yes, you trust your team. But, you don't trust blindly. You work based
      > on faith until you acquire experience. You build trust based on
      > experience. Accountability is one of the most effective means to this
      > end.

      It is. And I'd like to have the team know what they spent their time on.
      And I'm in no sense opposed to estimating how much working time is involved
      in some story -- I think it's the most effective way to estimate.

      It has the advantage that it can't drift against past estimates. I used to
      be able to estimate what I could do in a day, now I still can. What I can
      do is different, but the units are the same. A "one" a year ago, and a
      "one" now? Don't know.

      However ...

      > Accountability is a form of trustworthiness. If I am willing to be
      > accountable for my use of family money, then my spouse can trust me to
      > use it wisely. She needn't spend time worrying about what I'm doing with
      > our money. If I constantly come back with, "I took out $200 on Wednesday
      > and it's just gone. I don't know what I spent it on." then she shouldn't
      > trust me to spend our money wisely.

      I think it's good to know where the money is going. I don't think it's good
      to have the spouse demand reporting, or even need or want it. That's not
      trust, it's something else.

      > You can't control whether someone trusts you, but you can control
      > whether you are trustworthy. Accountability is one way to demonstrate
      > trustworthiness.

      Yes. And sometimes we do need to demonstrate trustworthiness. Maybe we
      should consider that need to be a process smell, a relationship smell. It's
      good to know where the time went. I'm not comfortable with the general need
      to be producing that accounting for others.

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      Accroche toi a ton reve. --ELO
    • Kay Pentecost
      Hey... There should be a level -5 for people who have heard of it, but refuse to try it, and are intent on ridiculing it... Kay
      Message 161 of 161 , Nov 11, 2004
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        Hey...

        There should be a level -5 for people who have heard of it, but refuse to
        try it, and are intent on ridiculing it...

        Kay

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:ronjeffries@...]
        > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 1:51 PM
        > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: how do you handle differing estimates by team
        > members? [Was]: [XP] More Chal
        >
        >
        > I have no idea how that happened. Were it up to me, I'd have
        > them match the
        > CMM levels. I'm heavily into tradition, as is well known.
        >
        > Ron Jeffries
        > www.XProgramming.com
        > Logic is overrated as a system of thought.
        >
        > On Tuesday, November 9, 2004, at 1:42:13 PM, Dave Rooney wrote:
        >
        > > I had a look at the page on the Wiki
        > > (http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ExtremeProgrammingMaturityModel), and was
        > > surprised to see that the levels were from -2 to 2! I
        > hadn't realized
        > > they had changed.
        >
        > End quotation from Dave Rooney, on Tuesday, November 9, 2004,
        > at 1:42:13 PM
        >
        >
        >
        >
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