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Re: [XP] manipulation and lies -- a good or bad thing?

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  • Jeff Grigg
    ... I, too, am an INTP. Lying is a bad thing. Telling the truth can also be a bad thing. In that telling the truth can cause harm, from hurting someone s
    Message 1 of 4 , Oct 16, 2004
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      --- Kay, then Ron, then Kay, then Ron...
      >>>>> First off, I think lying is neither good nor bad.

      >>>> Explain, please.

      >>> Okay. <grin> I'm an INTP.

      >> Explain, please.

      --- "Kay Pentecost" <tranzpupy@i...> wrote:
      > Okay, all seriousness aside... <grin>
      >
      > Lying is the act of not telling the truth, isn't it?
      > Or possibly saying something that is the opposite of truth.
      >
      > I have no categorical pre-judgment of whether not telling
      > the truth is a good thing, or a bad thing.
      >
      > It might be a bad thing to tell the truth and hurt
      > someone's feelings.
      >
      > It might be a good thing to not tell someone the truth.
      > "Your daughter was *awful* in that play."
      >
      > Is that explained?

      I, too, am an INTP.

      Lying is a bad thing.

      Telling the truth can also be a bad thing. In that telling the
      truth can cause harm, from hurting someone's feelings to, in very
      extreme circumstances, causing harm and death. There are times when
      telling the truth causes more harm than lying. In those cases, one
      may be morally and/or ethically justified in lying.
    • Kay Pentecost
      Hi, Jeff, ... Cool, huh? I think a lot of us on this list are INTP... ... Uh huh. So we have one INTP who says that lying is a bad thing, and one (me) who
      Message 2 of 4 , Oct 16, 2004
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        Hi, Jeff,

        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: Jeff Grigg [mailto:jeffgrigg@...]
        > Sent: Saturday, October 16, 2004 11:33 PM
        > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [XP] manipulation and lies -- a good or bad thing?
        >
        >
        >
        > --- Kay, then Ron, then Kay, then Ron...
        > >>>>> First off, I think lying is neither good nor bad.
        >
        > >>>> Explain, please.
        >
        > >>> Okay. <grin> I'm an INTP.
        >
        > >> Explain, please.
        >
        > --- "Kay Pentecost" <tranzpupy@i...> wrote:
        > > Okay, all seriousness aside... <grin>
        > >
        > > Lying is the act of not telling the truth, isn't it?
        > > Or possibly saying something that is the opposite of truth.
        > >
        > > I have no categorical pre-judgment of whether not telling
        > > the truth is a good thing, or a bad thing.
        > >
        > > It might be a bad thing to tell the truth and hurt
        > > someone's feelings.
        > >
        > > It might be a good thing to not tell someone the truth.
        > > "Your daughter was *awful* in that play."
        > >
        > > Is that explained?
        >
        > I, too, am an INTP.

        Cool, huh? I think a lot of us on this list are INTP...

        >
        > Lying is a bad thing.

        Uh huh. So we have one INTP who says that lying is a bad thing, and one
        (me) who says they see lying as neither bad nor good.

        >
        > Telling the truth can also be a bad thing.

        Yes, I agree.


        > In that telling the
        > truth can cause harm, from hurting someone's feelings to, in very
        > extreme circumstances, causing harm and death. There are times when
        > telling the truth causes more harm than lying. In those cases, one
        > may be morally and/or ethically justified in lying.

        So is the lying in that case a *good* thing? Or is it okay to do bad things
        when they are justified...??

        Kay

        >
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        >
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      • Michael Feathers
        ... I am too. I once saw a set of pictures taken at an INTP convention.. a bunch of people sitting in chairs looking at each other. No joke :) Michael
        Message 3 of 4 , Oct 17, 2004
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          Kay Pentecost wrote:

          >>>Is that explained?
          >>>
          >>>
          >>I, too, am an INTP.
          >>
          >>
          >
          >Cool, huh? I think a lot of us on this list are INTP...
          >
          >
          I am too. I once saw a set of pictures taken at an INTP convention.. a
          bunch
          of people sitting in chairs looking at each other. No joke :)


          Michael Feathers
          author, Working Effectively with Legacy Code
          www.objectmentor.com
          michaelfeathers.com
        • Ron Jeffries
          ... Years ago, I went to the first CompuServe meeting of people who were users of their on-line chat rooms. Many of the people went back to their rooms to use
          Message 4 of 4 , Oct 17, 2004
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            On Sunday, October 17, 2004, at 2:55:04 PM, Michael Feathers wrote:

            > I am too. I once saw a set of pictures taken at an INTP convention.. a
            > bunch
            > of people sitting in chairs looking at each other. No joke :)

            Years ago, I went to the first CompuServe meeting of people who were users
            of their on-line chat rooms. Many of the people went back to their rooms to
            use the on-line chat to talk with each other.

            Ron Jeffries
            www.XProgramming.com
            My advice is to do it by the book, get good at the practices, then do as
            you will. Many people want to skip to step three. How do they know?
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