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Re: [good] [XP] Re: Oracle & Ford in need of XP

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... Well, yes, requirements gathering has a cost. In my experience, usually the requirements gathering needed to get a project approved is quite small and
    Message 1 of 145 , Sep 1, 2004
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      On Wednesday, September 1, 2004, at 5:51:16 AM, Dominic Williams wrote:

      > I think you suggested that the customer needs to gather
      > more requirements than what would be necessary just to
      > get the developers started, in order to obtain funding
      > for the complete project.

      > This additional requirements gathering has a cost. What
      > if the money were spent on paying for the first
      > iteration instead? That may be enough to get funding
      > for the second iteration, and so on. It may never be
      > necessary to obtain funding for the complete project.

      Well, yes, requirements gathering has a cost. In my experience, usually the
      requirements gathering needed to get a project approved is quite small and
      mostly harmless. I'm OK with that, in general, although we need to remember
      that someone may one day hold us to whatever was said in that approved
      plan, so even there caution is advisable.

      > As a supplier, I would not risk bidding fixed-price
      > fixed-scope, because I have never seen this work to
      > either parties best interests. I would offer an
      > incrementally funded, scope-controlled approach.

      That's certainly a choice one can make, and if you can get the business it
      seems to put the project on a very good footing. I think most of us have a
      lot to learn about how to bid into a fixed-price situation with such a
      proposal, such that the readers of the proposal don't reject it out of hand
      as not passing the proposal requirements.
      >
      > Some customers would not be interested, because it
      > matters more to them to know how much money will be
      > spent than to know whether it will be well
      > spent. That's too bad.

      Seems to me that setting the amount to be spent on various subjects, and
      leaving how it's spent to the department or project is a pretty agile
      approach to business. It could serve as a very good delegation model.

      I believe that we have just begun to scratch the surface of how to address
      situations with fixed time and money budgets, and that the right answer may
      not be as much like incremental funding and variable content as we think.

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      In times of stress, I like to turn to the wisdom of my Portuguese waitress,
      who said: "Olá, meu nome é Marisol e eu serei sua garçonete."
      -- after Mark Vaughn, Autoweek.
    • Randy MacDonald
      Previous experience worked for me. ... From: John D. Mitchell To: Sent: Friday, September 10,
      Message 145 of 145 , Sep 9, 2004
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        Previous experience worked for me.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "John D. Mitchell" <johnm-extreme@...>
        To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 12:57 AM
        Subject: [XP] Re: The Value of XP when Requirements are Stable


        > Of course, sustainable very-high-speed typing and previous experience in
        > the various problem domains go a long way, too. :-( :-)
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