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Re: [XP] Six Sigma and Extreme - Is Agile to ---

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  • Victor
    I like your approach, Brad. If you have to do it, you have to do it. It also has the valuable result that eventually you get meaningful data. It brings up in
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 31, 2004
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      I like your approach, Brad.

      If you have to do it, you have to do it. It also has the valuable result
      that eventually you get meaningful data.

      It brings up in my mind two stories that work well as metaphors.

      Story 1. St Paul Academy, St. Paul, Minnesota. They used to have this
      activity where students would be challenged to swim between two spots in the
      cold Lake Superior. That's a tough, long exercise. The participants would
      be blue when exiting the water. Yet, very rewarding when they either
      succeeded or just participated. This is only one example of the kind of
      strenuous activities the students are challenged to do. I don't know if
      this one is still being done. In general, the challenges are both physical
      and intellectual. Many of their graduates go on to be leaders of important
      organizations in the nation and valuable contributors to society. There are
      other factors that help, like money and connections, but by themselves they
      are not sufficient to explain those results.

      Story 2. I heard the comment, a number of times, that students and
      eventually professionals that come from farming communities tend to be more
      productive and successful than comparable individuals coming from other
      communities.

      The commonality of these two stories is that activities that consistently
      require to stretch a person's effort in pursuit of a valuable goal, in a
      focused way, also prepare that person to pursue other goals in a focused and
      effective way. It may sound trivial, but for many people it's not, and even
      for those that intuitively accept the validity of the conclusion, it's not
      an easy path to follow.

      Brad, I don't know if you follow this pattern or not, but 6 sigma seems to
      require people that are able to stay doggedly on focus to get meaningful
      results. For those that do, the results seem to be quite rewarding.

      Victor

      P.S. Please note I am only talking about possible tendencies, rather than
      deterministic laws, and individual examples are plenty that don't fit the
      patterns described above.



      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Brad Appleton" <brad@...>
      To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 7:39 PM
      Subject: Re: [XP] Six Sigma and Extreme - Is Agile to ---


      > On Sat, Jul 31, 2004 at 07:27:18PM -0400, Ron Jeffries wrote:
      > > It could be. SixSigma hurts my brain, and the kinds of companies that I
      > > have encountered who were doing it hurt my soul. I'm not saying that it
      has
      > > to be that way, but I'm glad you're excited about the topic, because
      it'll
      > > take a lot of 'splainin' on your part before I sign up.
      >
      > Its not SixSigma that excites me - its the ability it gives
      > me to reach/connect with the higher powers in the organization
      > and speak their language about how/why to steer toward agility.
      >
      > Its not so much the road itself that is exciting, but the "ride",
      > and what makes the ride more productive and enjoyable. It helps
      > me make a difference, and helps me do it better, and broader
      > than I could before. I hope it won't be the only such thing.
      > --
      > Brad Appleton <brad@...> www.bradapp.net
      > Software CM Patterns (www.scmpatterns.com)
      > Effective Teamwork, Practical Integration
      > "And miles to go before I sleep." -- Robert Frost
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
      >
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
      >
      > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Rett Williams
      Does hogwash taste any better if it gets swallowed in Lake Superior. The name of the lake alone should get a ten on the irony scale. I can t imagine what
      Message 2 of 7 , Aug 3, 2004
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        Does hogwash taste any better if it gets swallowed in Lake Superior.
        The name of the lake alone should get a ten on the irony scale. I can't
        imagine what either of these supposed examples can have to do with
        any conclusion or even any reasonably logical surmise in the real world.
        I believe that "elitist" would be the kindest description of your thinking
        here.

        People who stay doggedly on focus typically ignore what is going on about
        them, assuredly accomplishing whatever it is that they set out upon,
        but whether that accomplished goal will have anything to do with any
        actual needs of anyone other than the dogged group or person is the more
        important question. Maybe we should add "self-aggrandizing" to your phrase
        list for studies of the metaphorical context for "dogged".

        Everett L.(Rett) Williams
        rett@...

        Victor wrote:

        >I like your approach, Brad.
        >
        >If you have to do it, you have to do it. It also has the valuable result
        >that eventually you get meaningful data.
        >
        >It brings up in my mind two stories that work well as metaphors.
        >
        >Story 1. St Paul Academy, St. Paul, Minnesota. They used to have this
        >activity where students would be challenged to swim between two spots in the
        >cold Lake Superior. That's a tough, long exercise. The participants would
        >be blue when exiting the water. Yet, very rewarding when they either
        >succeeded or just participated. This is only one example of the kind of
        >strenuous activities the students are challenged to do. I don't know if
        >this one is still being done. In general, the challenges are both physical
        >and intellectual. Many of their graduates go on to be leaders of important
        >organizations in the nation and valuable contributors to society. There are
        >other factors that help, like money and connections, but by themselves they
        >are not sufficient to explain those results.
        >
        >Story 2. I heard the comment, a number of times, that students and
        >eventually professionals that come from farming communities tend to be more
        >productive and successful than comparable individuals coming from other
        >communities.
        >
        >The commonality of these two stories is that activities that consistently
        >require to stretch a person's effort in pursuit of a valuable goal, in a
        >focused way, also prepare that person to pursue other goals in a focused and
        >effective way. It may sound trivial, but for many people it's not, and even
        >for those that intuitively accept the validity of the conclusion, it's not
        >an easy path to follow.
        >
        >Brad, I don't know if you follow this pattern or not, but 6 sigma seems to
        >require people that are able to stay doggedly on focus to get meaningful
        >results. For those that do, the results seem to be quite rewarding.
        >
        >Victor
        >
        > P.S. Please note I am only talking about possible tendencies, rather than
        >deterministic laws, and individual examples are plenty that don't fit the
        >patterns described above.
        >
        >
        >
        >----- Original Message -----
        >From: "Brad Appleton" <brad@...>
        >To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
        >Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 7:39 PM
        >Subject: Re: [XP] Six Sigma and Extreme - Is Agile to ---
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >>On Sat, Jul 31, 2004 at 07:27:18PM -0400, Ron Jeffries wrote:
        >>
        >>
        >>>It could be. SixSigma hurts my brain, and the kinds of companies that I
        >>>have encountered who were doing it hurt my soul. I'm not saying that it
        >>>
        >>>
        >has
        >
        >
        >>>to be that way, but I'm glad you're excited about the topic, because
        >>>
        >>>
        >it'll
        >
        >
        >>>take a lot of 'splainin' on your part before I sign up.
        >>>
        >>>
        >>Its not SixSigma that excites me - its the ability it gives
        >>me to reach/connect with the higher powers in the organization
        >>and speak their language about how/why to steer toward agility.
        >>
        >>Its not so much the road itself that is exciting, but the "ride",
        >>and what makes the ride more productive and enjoyable. It helps
        >>me make a difference, and helps me do it better, and broader
        >>than I could before. I hope it won't be the only such thing.
        >>--
        >>Brad Appleton <brad@...> www.bradapp.net
        >> Software CM Patterns (www.scmpatterns.com)
        >> Effective Teamwork, Practical Integration
        >>"And miles to go before I sleep." -- Robert Frost
        >>
        >>
        >>To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
        >>
        >>To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        >>
        >>
        >extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
        >
        >
        >>ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
        >>Yahoo! Groups Links
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        >To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
        >
        >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
        >
        >ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
        >Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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