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  • Donald F. McLean
    http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=45497&DE=1
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 20, 2004
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    • Ilja Preuss
      ... Relevant to what? I am somewhat reluctant to follow the link, as I suspect spam... Cheers, Ilja
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 20, 2004
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        Donald F. McLean wrote:
        > http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=45497&DE=1

        Relevant to what? I am somewhat reluctant to follow the link, as I
        suspect spam...

        Cheers, Ilja
      • Dave Rooney
        It s from Java Developer s Journal. Interesting article favourably comparing Extreme Programming to the Scientific Method. The only annoyance is all the
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 20, 2004
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          It's from Java Developer's Journal. Interesting article favourably
          comparing Extreme Programming to the Scientific Method.

          The only annoyance is all the advertising and shiny flashing stuff on the
          JDJ web site.

          Dave Rooney
          Mayford Technologies
          http://www.mayford.ca


          Ilja Preuss writes:

          > Donald F. McLean wrote:
          >> http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=45497&DE=1
          >
          > Relevant to what? I am somewhat reluctant to follow the link, as I
          > suspect spam...
          >
          > Cheers, Ilja
          >
          >
          >
          > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
          >
          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
          >
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        • Alexandre
          ... You mean, apart from the titles of the different paragraphs of the article? Is this humour from the author or some kind of editorial policy from JDJ? It
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 20, 2004
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            On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 10:23:46AM -0400, Dave Rooney wrote:
            > It's from Java Developer's Journal. Interesting article favourably
            > comparing Extreme Programming to the Scientific Method.
            >
            > The only annoyance is all the advertising and shiny flashing stuff on the
            > JDJ web site.

            You mean, apart from the titles of the different paragraphs of the
            article? Is this humour from the author or some kind of editorial
            policy from JDJ? It stinks.

            And the article completely misses the measurement/tracking part of XP,
            focussing on the code writing practices, leading to yet one more comment
            along the lines of "XP is just a nice word for quick and dirty
            programming". Obviously, we know better, but this won't help the average
            project manager consider XP.

            Sigh...

            --
            Alexandre Fayolle LOGILAB, Paris (France).
            http://www.logilab.com http://www.logilab.fr http://www.logilab.org


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dave Rooney
            ... Yeah, the first one was mildly amusing, but after that it was this.setAnnoyanceLevel( new EyeRoll() ). ... Missing the measuring aspect of XP is common and
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 20, 2004
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              Alexandre writes:

              > On Tue, Jul 20, 2004 at 10:23:46AM -0400, Dave Rooney wrote:
              >> It's from Java Developer's Journal. Interesting article favourably
              >> comparing Extreme Programming to the Scientific Method.
              >>
              >> The only annoyance is all the advertising and shiny flashing stuff on the
              >> JDJ web site.
              >
              > You mean, apart from the titles of the different paragraphs of the
              > article? Is this humour from the author or some kind of editorial
              > policy from JDJ? It stinks.

              Yeah, the first one was mildly amusing, but after that it was
              this.setAnnoyanceLevel( new EyeRoll() ).

              > And the article completely misses the measurement/tracking part of XP,
              > focussing on the code writing practices, leading to yet one more comment
              > along the lines of "XP is just a nice word for quick and dirty
              > programming". Obviously, we know better, but this won't help the average
              > project manager consider XP.
              >
              > Sigh...
              >
              > --
              > Alexandre Fayolle LOGILAB, Paris (France).
              > http://www.logilab.com http://www.logilab.fr http://www.logilab.org

              Missing the measuring aspect of XP is common and regrettable.

              However, I didn't get the impression at all that the author felt that XP was
              "quick and dirty". I thought that the comparison to the Scientific Method
              was quite apt, and follows closely what Ken Schwaber had to say in the Scrum
              book about empirical vs. defined processes.

              Admittedly, I also have some XP work under my belt which allows me to make
              that connection. Someone who reads that article as their first exposure to
              XP very likely would not.

              Dave Rooney
              Mayford Technologies
              http://www.mayford.ca
            • Ilja Preuss
              ... ROFL Thanks, Ilja
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 20, 2004
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                Dave Rooney wrote:

                > Yeah, the first one was mildly amusing, but after that it was
                > this.setAnnoyanceLevel( new EyeRoll() ).

                ROFL

                Thanks, Ilja
              • Bil Kleb
                ... So my XPAU2002 Open Space session, SoftwareAndTheScientificProcess, wasn t completely insane(*) after all?
                Message 7 of 7 , Aug 1, 2004
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                  Dave Rooney wrote:
                  >
                  > Donald F. McLean wrote:
                  > > http://www.sys-con.com/story/?storyid=45497
                  >
                  > It's from Java Developer's Journal. Interesting article favourably
                  > comparing Extreme Programming to the Scientific Method.

                  So my XPAU2002 Open Space session, SoftwareAndTheScientificProcess, wasn't
                  completely insane(*) after all?

                  http://wiki.objectmentor.com/openspace/wiki.cgi?SoftwareAndTheScientificProcess

                  Actually, I just presented an AIAA paper "CFD: A Castle in the Sand?" that
                  is based on the notion discussed in the OpenSpace session. (The paper is
                  should be online in a couple weeks at http://techreports.larc.nasa.gov/ltrs/
                  Of course, you can also get a copy from me.)

                  The paper's premise is that the numerical simulation community is currently
                  based on an untested foundation, and collapse is eminent if our community
                  does not start publishing programmer tests along side new algorithms/models.

                  AIAA = American Institute for Aeronautics and Astronautics
                  CFD = Computational Fluid Dynamics (see http://fun3d.larc.nasa.gov for samples)

                  Later,
                  --
                  Bil Kleb, Hampton, Virginia


                  (*) Using Pirsig's definition of insanity as described in "Lila" -- the sequel
                  to "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values",

                  An insane delusion can't be held by a group at all. A person isn't
                  considered insane if there are a number of people who believe the
                  same way. Insanity isn't supposed to be a communicable disease.
                  If one other person starts to believe him, or maybe two or three,
                  then it's a religion.

                  I also use this definition to explain one difference between pair programming
                  and another alternative, solo programming.
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