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Re: DSDM is Agile

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  • rachelclairedavies
    Agreed. I would like to fill in some more background info because I feel that, as I provided advice on XP to the DSDM consortium for DSDM v4.2 in 2002/2003, I
    Message 1 of 22 , May 1, 2004
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      Agreed.

      I would like to fill in some more background info because I feel
      that, as I provided advice on XP to the DSDM consortium for DSDM
      v4.2 in 2002/2003, I am implicated in the choice of Enterprise XP
      name. During this time I was bound by a non-disclosure agreement so
      I could not discuss freely on this list. At this time another XP
      advisor on DSDM v4.2, Sean Hanly, expressed within the review
      group "I personally am uncomfortable with EnterpriseXP tag and would
      prefer that we disassociate the 4.2 work and EnterpriseXP." I think
      this was the general view taken by all XP practitioners who worked
      on v4.2 but DSDM consortium went ahead with the name anyhow.
      To reiterate previous mails, I have used some DSDM techniques in
      conjuntion with XP and believe that we have things to learn from
      each other but do not like "EnterpriseXP" branding.

      Rachel Davies

      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Steven Gordon
      <sagordon@a...> wrote:
      > Sorry - I mistakenly used a faulty method: assuming that
      the "Search Archive" button at
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/extremeprogramming/ would return
      references correctly.
      >
      > And I do agree that not challenging this reference in an email
      does not constitute consent. Furthermore, many people did challenge
      the name IndustrialXP.
    • Ron Jeffries
      ... Have any of the people who are actually behind EnterpriseXP ever done pure XP? I am wondering at least two things: how do they know it needs something,
      Message 2 of 22 , May 1, 2004
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        On Saturday, May 1, 2004, at 5:43:26 AM, rachelclairedavies wrote:

        > I would like to fill in some more background info because I feel
        > that, as I provided advice on XP to the DSDM consortium for DSDM
        > v4.2 in 2002/2003, I am implicated in the choice of Enterprise XP
        > name. During this time I was bound by a non-disclosure agreement so
        > I could not discuss freely on this list. At this time another XP
        > advisor on DSDM v4.2, Sean Hanly, expressed within the review
        > group "I personally am uncomfortable with EnterpriseXP tag and would
        > prefer that we disassociate the 4.2 work and EnterpriseXP." I think
        > this was the general view taken by all XP practitioners who worked
        > on v4.2 but DSDM consortium went ahead with the name anyhow.
        > To reiterate previous mails, I have used some DSDM techniques in
        > conjuntion with XP and believe that we have things to learn from
        > each other but do not like "EnterpriseXP" branding.

        Have any of the people who are actually behind "EnterpriseXP" ever done
        "pure" XP? I am wondering at least two things: how do they know it needs
        something, and how are they qualified to advise on when and how to add
        things?

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        When all ideas of [XP] is and [XP] is not have been extinguished,
        then [XP] reality will manifest itself. -- Thich Nhat Hanh [Ron Jeffries]
      • Steven Gordon
        Using a non-disclosure agreement to inhibit communication would seem to be a first-order violation of the agile manifesto ( collaboration over contract
        Message 3 of 22 , May 1, 2004
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          Using a non-disclosure agreement to inhibit communication would seem to be a first-order violation of the agile manifesto ("collaboration over contract negotiation"). Making methodologies proprietary is no way to facilitate learning from each other.


          On Saturday, May 1, 2004, at 5:43:26 AM, rachelclairedavies wrote:

          > I would like to fill in some more background info because I feel
          > that, as I provided advice on XP to the DSDM consortium for DSDM
          > v4.2 in 2002/2003, I am implicated in the choice of Enterprise XP
          > name. During this time I was bound by a non-disclosure agreement so
          > I could not discuss freely on this list. At this time another XP
          > advisor on DSDM v4.2, Sean Hanly, expressed within the review
          > group "I personally am uncomfortable with EnterpriseXP tag and would
          > prefer that we disassociate the 4.2 work and EnterpriseXP." I think
          > this was the general view taken by all XP practitioners who worked
          > on v4.2 but DSDM consortium went ahead with the name anyhow.
          > To reiterate previous mails, I have used some DSDM techniques in
          > conjuntion with XP and believe that we have things to learn from
          > each other but do not like "EnterpriseXP" branding.




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • rachelclairedavies
          This is hard to answer as the full list of names behind Enterprise XP is not in the public domain. To the best of my knowledge none of the DSDM consortium
          Message 4 of 22 , May 1, 2004
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            This is hard to answer as the full list of names behind Enterprise
            XP is not in the public domain.
            To the best of my knowledge none of the DSDM consortium members that
            are behind the use of the "EnterpriseXP" name (Barry Fazackerly et
            al) have tried XP on a real project as software developers as they
            work more in the realm of project management.
            Rachel

            --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries
            <jeffries@d...> wrote:
            > Have any of the people who are actually behind "EnterpriseXP" ever
            done
            > "pure" XP? I am wondering at least two things: how do they know it
            needs
            > something, and how are they qualified to advise on when and how to
            add
            > things?
            >
            > Ron Jeffries
            > www.XProgramming.com
            > When all ideas of [XP] is and [XP] is not have been extinguished,
            > then [XP] reality will manifest itself. -- Thich Nhat Hanh [Ron
            Jeffries]
          • Jeff Grigg
            ... Well, as project managers I think they would have been in an excellent position to adopt XP as their project s approach. So if they have not managed XP
            Message 5 of 22 , May 1, 2004
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              --- "rachelclairedavies" <rachel.davies@t...> wrote:
              > To the best of my knowledge none of the DSDM consortium
              > members that are behind the use of the "EnterpriseXP"
              > name (Barry Fazackerly et al) have tried XP on a real
              > project as software developers as they work more in the
              > realm of project management.

              Well, as project managers I think they would have been in an
              excellent position to adopt XP as their project's approach.

              So if they have not managed XP projects, how would they know what
              about XP was missing or unnecessary?
            • Chris Hanson
              ... What qualifies them then to work on the specifics of software development methodology? -- Chris -- Chris Hanson
              Message 6 of 22 , May 1, 2004
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                On May 1, 2004, at 7:08 AM, rachelclairedavies wrote:
                > To the best of my knowledge none of the DSDM consortium members that
                > are behind the use of the "EnterpriseXP" name (Barry Fazackerly et
                > al) have tried XP on a real project as software developers as they
                > work more in the realm of project management.

                What qualifies them then to work on the specifics of software
                development methodology?

                -- Chris

                --
                Chris Hanson <cmh@...>
                http://www.livejournal.com/users/chanson/
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