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VS: [XP] What's in a Name?

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  • lasse.koskela@accenture.com
    ... I can t help but thinking along the lines of lean development . Also, value driven development would be a good candidate in my mind... - Lasse - This
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 18, 2004
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      > So let's play Monday-morning quarterback, second-guessing Kent
      > Beck's name choice! (Can we be more unfair?)

      I can't help but thinking along the lines of "lean development". Also, "value driven development" would be a good candidate in my mind...

      - Lasse -



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    • Brad Appleton
      ... I liked the name Highsmith used for his ASD method at the time (Adaptive Software Development). I felt it captured the gist of it (and that the adpative
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 18, 2004
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        --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, lasse.koskela@a... wrote:
        > > So let's play Monday-morning quarterback, second-guessing Kent
        > > Beck's name choice! (Can we be more unfair?)
        >
        > I can't help but thinking along the lines of "lean development".
        > Also, "value driven development" would be a good candidate in my mind...

        I liked the name Highsmith used for his ASD method at the time (Adaptive Software Development). I felt it captured the "gist" of it (and
        that the adpative part was more primary than the "lean" part and lean was merely an end to achieving that).

        Of course, acronym-happy overachiever that I sometmes am, and with a penchant to "mix" things. I might have tried for something like
        :
        * LEAD (Lean Extreme Adaptive Development)
        * ALE (Adaptive Lean and extreme -- for what "ails" you :-) or "Ale's well that ends well :-) :-)
        * DEAL (Developing Extremely Adaptive and Lean, by Monty Hall)
        And of course lots of other interesting possibilities by inserting extra letters like 'M' or 'T' or 'S' or 'P' or 'B' in various and sundry ways.

        Or AINR ("Agile is NOT RUP" :-)
      • Dale Emery
        Hi Brad, ... You re using all the right letters, but you put them in the wrong order! DALE -- Dale Emery -- Consultant -- Resistance as a Resource Web:
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 18, 2004
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          Hi Brad,

          > Of course, acronym-happy overachiever that I sometmes am, and
          > with a penchant to "mix" things. I might have tried for
          > something like :
          > * LEAD (Lean Extreme Adaptive Development)
          > * ALE (Adaptive Lean and extreme -- for what "ails" you or
          > "Ale's well that ends well
          > * DEAL (Developing Extremely Adaptive and Lean, by Monty Hall)

          You're using all the right letters, but you put them in the wrong
          order!

          DALE

          --
          Dale Emery -- Consultant -- Resistance as a Resource
          Web: http://www.dhemery.com
          Weblog: http://www.dhemery.com/cwd (Conversations with Dale)

          Any fool can make a rule, and any fool will mind it. --Henry
          David Thoreau
        • cjmb
          ... So Dale, does this mean that your fingers and toes are becoming very long and flexible? :-) Chris. C J M Booth, Room E210, QinetiQ Malvern.
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 19, 2004
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            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Dale Emery [mailto:dale@...]
            > Sent: 19 February 2004 07:57
            > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: [XP] Re: VS: What's in a Name?
            >
            >
            > > * DEAL (Developing Extremely Adaptive and Lean, by Monty Hall)
            >
            > You're using all the right letters, but you put them in the wrong
            > order!
            >
            > DALE
            >

            So Dale, does this mean that your fingers and toes are becoming
            very long and flexible? :-)

            Chris.

            C J M Booth, Room E210, QinetiQ Malvern.
            cjmb@...
            Tel: +44 (0)1684 896400
            Fax: +44 (0)1684 894389

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          • Joel Shellman
            ... Come, come, now, it s supposed to be recursive: AINR is NOT RUP Yes, there are some real problems with the name in some circles. I was talking to our CEO
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 19, 2004
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              > Or AINR ("Agile is NOT RUP" :-)

              Come, come, now, it's supposed to be recursive:

              AINR is NOT RUP

              Yes, there are some real problems with the name in some circles. I was
              talking to our CEO yesterday about XP and he mentioned that if we say
              extreme anything to client X, they'd be gone in a flash. So I told
              him--just call it an agile methodology. That has a sophisticated enough
              ring to it to get by.

              As far as really changing the name? I don't think that's realistic
              because there are some quite significant problems and repurcussions. One
              is that critics of XP would have a heyday if the name
              changed--admittance of guilt/covering up/waffling they would call it and
              other such derogatory things.

              So my plan for now anyway, is to just say agile methodology (or
              something similar) in situations where the term extreme programming
              would be unwelcome.

              -joel shellman
            • Brad Appleton
              ... Yes - I have seen this too. (and in some circles, saying programming instead of engineering will raise hackles as well and concerns about hacking ). I
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 19, 2004
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                On Thu, Feb 19, 2004 at 06:44:11AM -0800, Joel Shellman wrote:
                > > Or AINR ("Agile is NOT RUP" :-)
                >
                > Come, come, now, it's supposed to be recursive:
                >
                > AINR is NOT RUP

                :-)

                > Yes, there are some real problems with the name in some circles. I was
                > talking to our CEO yesterday about XP and he mentioned that if we say
                > extreme anything to client X, they'd be gone in a flash.

                Yes - I have seen this too. (and in some circles, saying
                "programming" instead of "engineering" will raise hackles as
                well and concerns about "hacking").

                I have definitely seen the very name "Extreme Programming" leave
                a bad taste in people's mouths. That's why I hereby propose
                the aforementioned "ALE" name to address that problem - I'm told
                it goes down much smoother, tastes great, and is less filling
                (or is that "less chilling" :-) ;-)

                > So I told him--just call it an agile methodology. That has a
                > sophisticated enough ring to it to get by.

                I've actually been so daunting before as to simply call it
                a "spiral/iterative" approach or describe it as "a proven
                effective instance of RUP" (that way I don't have use any
                new words that might sound new+scary :)

                At the same time, the reason why it does this is at the
                heart of why it is a good name for marketing purposes.
                It sparks controversy and discussion and debate and hence
                visibility.

                --
                Brad Appleton <brad@...> www.bradapp.net
                Software CM Patterns (www.scmpatterns.com)
                Effective Teamwork, Practical Integration
                "And miles to go before I sleep." -- Robert Frost
              • steve@berczuk.com
                ... This discussion reminds me of a panel I moderated at OOPSLA 2003 on the role of hype in methods being adopted. The name question came up, and one of the
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 19, 2004
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                  On Thu, 19 Feb 2004, Brad Appleton wrote:
                  > At the same time, the reason why it does this is at the
                  > heart of why it is a good name for marketing purposes.
                  > It sparks controversy and discussion and debate and hence
                  > visibility.

                  This discussion reminds me of a panel I moderated at OOPSLA 2003 on the
                  role of hype in methods being adopted. The name question came up, and one
                  of the panelists (Kyle Brown) suggested (tongue firmly in cheek) that
                  "Republican Programming" might be more acceptable to some management
                  types.

                  ;)

                  The controversy thing works both ways. It gets attention, but also scares
                  people away.

                  -steve


                  --
                  Steve Berczuk | steve@... | http://www.berczuk.com
                  SCM Patterns: Effective Teamwork, Practical Integration
                  www.scmpatterns.com
                • Adrian Howard
                  On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 08:23 PM, Brad Appleton wrote: [snip] ... [snip] a proven effective instance of RUP ..... nice... very nice! Adrian
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 19, 2004
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                    On Thursday, February 19, 2004, at 08:23 PM, Brad Appleton wrote:
                    [snip]
                    > I've actually been so daunting before as to simply call it
                    > a "spiral/iterative" approach or describe it as "a proven
                    > effective instance of RUP" (that way I don't have use any
                    > new words that might sound new+scary :)
                    [snip]

                    "a proven effective instance of RUP"..... nice... very nice!

                    Adrian
                  • George Paci
                    ... What about: a Proven Agile Instance of RUP ? ... --George Paci, writing way too many emails on one thread. Joyous IT value increasement (Maoist
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 26, 2004
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                      Adrian Howard wrote:

                      > "a proven effective instance of RUP"..... nice... very nice!

                      What about: "a Proven Agile Instance of RUP"?

                      :-) * 0.5

                      --George Paci, writing way too many emails on one thread.
                      "Joyous IT value increasement" (Maoist Programming?)
                    • Dale Emery
                      Hi George, ... Or PAIRUP for short! Dale -- Dale Emery -- Consultant -- Resistance as a Resource Web: http://www.dhemery.com Weblog:
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 26, 2004
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                        Hi George,

                        > What about: "a Proven Agile Instance of RUP"?

                        Or PAIRUP for short!

                        Dale

                        --
                        Dale Emery -- Consultant -- Resistance as a Resource
                        Web: http://www.dhemery.com
                        Weblog: http://www.dhemery.com/cwd (Conversations with Dale)

                        All modesty is false, otherwise it's not modesty. --Alan Bennett
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