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RE: [XP] Can patterns be harmful?

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  • Tim Haughton (OmniBus - Stanford)
    ... A (perhaps) happy medium would be for a master to say OK, I m pretty sure we re going to need a visitor, so we ll head in that direction, but I ll only
    Message 1 of 107 , Feb 2, 2004
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:ronjeffries@...]
      >
      > > Usually, I find GoF design patterns to be more useful in
      > the past tense. Kinda like "Hey look, I
      > > did a Visitor," rather than "OK we need to do a Visitor."
      >
      > So I think that your expression above, discovering the need
      > for a pattern,
      > rather than deciding in advance, is right on. Now, the use of
      > patterns by
      > the masters is in response to forces. So if the forces aren't
      > in the code
      > yet, it could be said that the Pattern Master wouldn't put in
      > the pattern
      > yet. However, it is also possible to draw a picture of the
      > supposed final
      > design, and sense the forces there, and therefore add the
      > pattern to the
      > drawing.
      >

      A (perhaps) happy medium would be for a master to say 'OK, I'm pretty sure we're going to need a visitor, so we'll head in that direction, but I'll only take the steps towards visitor-dom that I need'. This is also a good technique to use with people who find it hard to operate without BDUF. Let them do the BDUF, but as an exercise, ask them to implement only the tiny bits they need to make the tests pass. So we use the BDUF, but only in incy wincy vertical slices. Hopefully, the BDUF fan will see a simpler product at the end of it.

      >
      > Ron Jeffries
      > www.XProgramming.com
      > Make it real or else forget about it -- Carlos Santana
      >


      Cheers,

      Tim H
    • andy_ipaccess
      ... times. I ve ... them do it ... the ... down to ... questions? ... I have and do. Even with my professional background in being a mentor and lead, being
      Message 107 of 107 , Feb 8, 2004
        --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, George Dinwiddie
        <programminglists@a...> wrote:
        > Andrew McDonagh wrote:
        > > Over the 8 months we have been 'doing' XP I've tried many, many
        times. I've
        > > come to the conclusion that actively trying to steer them is
        > > counter-productive. The resistance increases when I push.
        > >
        > > This year, I've decided to take the hands-off approach. I let
        them do it
        > > anyway they want and leave it fully in their hands. They 'know'
        the
        > > practises and I've explained them fully many times, so its really
        down to
        > > whether they follow them or not.
        >

        > When explaining produces resistance, have you tried asking
        questions?
        >
        > - George

        I have and do.

        Even with my professional background in being a mentor and lead,
        being human I fail too sometimes. This tends tobe dur to annoyance of
        having to describe the practises, their benefits and interactions for
        the n'th time. In these situations I tend to 'tell' rather than
        show. No a good approach, I'd admit.
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