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Re: [XP] Can patterns be harmful?

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  • PaulOldfield1@compuserve.com
    (responding to John Roth) ... Agreed, and that applies outside of XP too. Thinking about the problem and making a stab at a solution is very valuable, and
    Message 1 of 107 , Feb 2, 2004
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      (responding to John Roth)

      > I'm not sure who you've heard rant against patterns. I
      > personally consider that teaching patterns can be quite
      > a bad thing before the student has enough actual coding
      > experiance with TDD and Simple Design to see some of
      > the more common ones pop out of the refactoring, but
      > that's simply my opinion.
      >
      > Patterns are, after all, common solutions to common
      > problems, and it's always useful to ask yourself why
      > your solution is different. You might even learn something!

      Agreed, and that applies outside of XP too. Thinking about
      the problem and making a stab at a solution is very valuable,
      and cannot happen if the solution is already known. It
      seems to make the information be assimilated and understood
      better, for some reason. That's from my personal observation
      of teaching in practice - I'm not aware of any formal studies
      on this.

      I'd make a tentative suggestion that learning to solve problems
      for oneself also imparts a better idea of when patterns are
      appropriate, and helps guard against the impulse to use
      patterns everywhere "just 'cos I can".

      Paul Oldfield
      www.aptprocess.com
    • andy_ipaccess
      ... times. I ve ... them do it ... the ... down to ... questions? ... I have and do. Even with my professional background in being a mentor and lead, being
      Message 107 of 107 , Feb 8, 2004
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        --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, George Dinwiddie
        <programminglists@a...> wrote:
        > Andrew McDonagh wrote:
        > > Over the 8 months we have been 'doing' XP I've tried many, many
        times. I've
        > > come to the conclusion that actively trying to steer them is
        > > counter-productive. The resistance increases when I push.
        > >
        > > This year, I've decided to take the hands-off approach. I let
        them do it
        > > anyway they want and leave it fully in their hands. They 'know'
        the
        > > practises and I've explained them fully many times, so its really
        down to
        > > whether they follow them or not.
        >

        > When explaining produces resistance, have you tried asking
        questions?
        >
        > - George

        I have and do.

        Even with my professional background in being a mentor and lead,
        being human I fail too sometimes. This tends tobe dur to annoyance of
        having to describe the practises, their benefits and interactions for
        the n'th time. In these situations I tend to 'tell' rather than
        show. No a good approach, I'd admit.
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