Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Concurrent iterations?

Expand Messages
  • Roman Rytov
    What s an approach for such a case: Some first iterations are defined filled by features and started. At the same time preparation to coming workshops/planning
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 2, 2003
      What's an approach for such a case:

      Some first iterations are defined filled by features and started. At the
      same time preparation to coming workshops/planning games/discussions
      happens. I mean there are open issues and questions that require
      researching or preparations or plaing with technologies to get answers.
      So the participants have assined (chosen) features for the current
      iteration and concurently have to work on the open questions that will
      help find solusions for next iterations. How to organaze it? The
      iterations have different finish time. Is there any 'multi-threaded'
      mode or a participant may deal only with one iteration ?


      RR
    • Brad Appleton
      ... I don t know of concurrent iterations being explicitly mentioned as part of XP or any other agile methodology (tho Poppendieck does talk about
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 2, 2003
        On Tue, Dec 02, 2003 at 05:36:23PM +0200, Roman Rytov wrote:
        > What's an approach for such a case:
        >
        > Some first iterations are defined filled by features and started. At the
        > same time preparation to coming workshops/planning games/discussions
        > happens. I mean there are open issues and questions that require
        > researching or preparations or plaing with technologies to get answers.
        > So the participants have assined (chosen) features for the current
        > iteration and concurently have to work on the open questions that will
        > help find solusions for next iterations. How to organaze it? The
        > iterations have different finish time. Is there any 'multi-threaded'
        > mode or a participant may deal only with one iteration ?

        I don't know of "concurrent iterations" being explicitly
        mentioned as part of XP or any other agile methodology
        (tho Poppendieck does talk about Concurrent-Engineering and
        Set-Based Development in the book Lean Software Development,
        and in some papers and presentation at her website
        http://www.poppendieck.com/ld.htm)

        However I myself have used concurrent iterations (iterations
        talking place in parallel, but "staggered" with different start
        and end points so there is overlap at the beginning/end with
        the previous/next iterations). Our situation sounds like it may
        have been similar to yours. We had a customer-group that the
        product-manager needed to facilitate strategic decisions from
        regarding release and story content, and we only had access
        to the entire group for two 2hr meetings each week. So there
        was a lot of preparation and organization and coordination for
        each customer-group meeting and then some additional work to
        follow-up with them later on the same week.

        Because of this undesirable wait-time caused by limited
        customer-group access, we used overlapping/parallel iterations
        to make the most efficient use of development resources
        during that time. I would have preferred being able to get
        more time/access with the customers, or the product-manager
        being more "empowered" by the customers to make more of those
        decisions on their behalf. I think the project would have
        been more "agile" that way. But given that that didn't happen,
        I think the overlapping/parallel iterations was an effective
        way for us to accommodate that imposed constraint. (better
        to remove it if you can, but if not ...)

        In our case, the iterations were ~3 weeks long, and ~2 weeks
        apart. The imposed constraint is what made what could have
        otherwise been a two-week iteration take three weeks instead
        [sigh]. There was a "prep" period at the beginning that
        overlapped with an iteration feedback gathering period for
        the previous iteration (so we were busy prepping to collect
        and elaborate the next set of stories while they took several
        days to run their acceptance tests and play with the last
        iteration's result);

        --
        Brad Appleton <brad@...> www.bradapp.net
        Software CM Patterns (www.scmpatterns.com)
        Effective Teamwork, Practical Integration
        "And miles to go before I sleep." -- Robert Frost
      • Keith Ray
        ... I think the usual recommendation is to time-box research - write a story that says research X for three days and schedule like other stories within the
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 2, 2003
          >> Some first iterations are defined filled by features and started. At
          >> the
          >> same time preparation to coming workshops/planning games/discussions
          >> happens. I mean there are open issues and questions that require
          >> researching or preparations or plaing with technologies to get
          >> answers.
          >> So the participants have assined (chosen) features for the current
          >> iteration and concurently have to work on the open questions that will
          >> help find solusions for next iterations. How to organaze it? The
          >> iterations have different finish time. Is there any 'multi-threaded'
          >> mode or a participant may deal only with one iteration ?

          I think the usual recommendation is to time-box research - write a
          story that says "research X for three days" and schedule like other
          stories within the normal iteration.

          --
          C. Keith Ray
          <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/index.html>
          <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/xpminifaq.html>
          <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume2.html>
        • Roman Rytov
          ... Here a question regarding synchronisation of those tasks occures. It s not necessarly the same pace and not the same people involved in. Actually I see no
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 2, 2003
            >
            > I think the usual recommendation is to time-box research -
            > write a story that says "research X for three days" and
            > schedule like other stories within the normal iteration.

            Here a question regarding synchronisation of those tasks occures. It's
            not necessarly the same pace and not the same people involved in.
            Actually I see no other way as to play with overlapping iterations as
            Brad proposed. The single danger I see is difficulties with getting know
            the real picture of the project. Maybe to put such additional (not
            'trancky') iterations apart and not take them into account on looking on
            the project status? Or another idea is still use the same pace between
            all the iterations but see on such as ones prolongable automatically ?


            RR
          • Ron Jeffries
            ... I don t understand why this three-day task can t fit just fine inside an ordinary iteration. What am I missing? Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Tough
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 2, 2003
              On Tuesday, December 2, 2003, at 5:19:55 PM, Roman Rytov wrote:

              > Here a question regarding synchronisation of those tasks occures. It's
              > not necessarly the same pace and not the same people involved in.
              > Actually I see no other way as to play with overlapping iterations as
              > Brad proposed. The single danger I see is difficulties with getting know
              > the real picture of the project. Maybe to put such additional (not
              > 'trancky') iterations apart and not take them into account on looking on
              > the project status? Or another idea is still use the same pace between
              > all the iterations but see on such as ones prolongable automatically ?

              I don't understand why this three-day task can't fit just fine inside an
              ordinary iteration. What am I missing?

              Ron Jeffries
              www.XProgramming.com
              Tough life is. Then die you do. --Yoda (personal communication)
            • Roman Rytov
              If it s 30-day task?
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 2, 2003
                If it's 30-day task?

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:ronjeffries@...]
                > Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 01:17
                > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [XP] Concurrent iterations?
                >
                > On Tuesday, December 2, 2003, at 5:19:55 PM, Roman Rytov wrote:
                >
                > > Here a question regarding synchronisation of those tasks
                > occures. It's
                > > not necessarly the same pace and not the same people involved in.
                > > Actually I see no other way as to play with overlapping
                > iterations as
                > > Brad proposed. The single danger I see is difficulties with getting
                > > know the real picture of the project. Maybe to put such additional
                > > (not
                > > 'trancky') iterations apart and not take them into account
                > on looking
                > > on the project status? Or another idea is still use the same pace
                > > between all the iterations but see on such as ones
                > prolongable automatically ?
                >
                > I don't understand why this three-day task can't fit just
                > fine inside an ordinary iteration. What am I missing?
                >
                > Ron Jeffries
                > www.XProgramming.com
                > Tough life is. Then die you do. --Yoda (personal communication)
                >
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                >
                > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                >
                > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                >
                > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                >
                >
                >
              • Ron Jeffries
                ... There are no 30-day tasks. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Picasso
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 2, 2003
                  On Tuesday, December 2, 2003, at 6:35:18 PM, Roman Rytov wrote:

                  > If it's 30-day task?

                  There are no 30-day tasks.

                  Ron Jeffries
                  www.XProgramming.com
                  Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. -- Picasso
                • Amir Kolsky
                  ... Yes there are - examples: Hang the mirror, fix the kitchen cabinet door...
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 2, 2003
                    >> If it's 30-day task?

                    >There are no 30-day tasks.

                    Yes there are - examples: Hang the mirror, fix the kitchen cabinet
                    door...
                  • Keith Ray
                    ... That goes up to 120 days if a contractor is involved. :-) -- C. Keith Ray
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 2, 2003
                      On Tuesday, December 2, 2003, at 05:20 PM, Amir Kolsky wrote:

                      >>> If it's 30-day task?
                      >
                      >> There are no 30-day tasks.
                      >
                      > Yes there are - examples: Hang the mirror, fix the kitchen cabinet
                      > door...

                      That goes up to 120 days if a contractor is involved. :-)


                      --
                      C. Keith Ray
                      <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/index.html>
                      <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/xpminifaq.html>
                      <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume2.html>
                    • Ron Jeffries
                      ... Don t confuse waiting time, which is waste, with productive time. ;- Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Interlocutor: You think you know more than I do!
                      Message 10 of 10 , Dec 2, 2003
                        On Tuesday, December 2, 2003, at 9:06:18 PM, Keith Ray wrote:

                        > On Tuesday, December 2, 2003, at 05:20 PM, Amir Kolsky wrote:

                        >>>> If it's 30-day task?
                        >>
                        >>> There are no 30-day tasks.
                        >>
                        >> Yes there are - examples: Hang the mirror, fix the kitchen cabinet
                        >> door...

                        > That goes up to 120 days if a contractor is involved. :-)

                        Don't confuse waiting time, which is waste, with productive time. ;->

                        Ron Jeffries
                        www.XProgramming.com
                        Interlocutor: You think you know more than I do!
                        Ron Jeffries: Not at all. I think I know different things than you do.
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.