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Re: [XP] Agile tools for python?

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  • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
    From: Bernd Schiffer Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 5:58 AM Subject: [XP] Agile tools for python?
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 1, 2003
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      From: "Bernd Schiffer"
      <schifferbernd.at.yahoo.de@...>
      Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 5:58 AM
      Subject: [XP] Agile tools for python?


      > Hi everybody.
      >
      > I'm interested in developing in python. Therefor I'm looking for an
      > IDE with refactoring support and a xUnit framework (PyUnit?). Does
      > anyone know from experience about agile development with python? Are
      > there any agile tools?

      Unittest comes with Python; it's the same as PyUnit except without
      a GUI. The doc was improved massively for Python 2.3 (and maybe
      also for 2.2.3), you can now figure out how to get started quickly.

      There's no "standard" IDE for Python. IDLE comes with the package,
      and it supports Bicycyle Repair Man. BRM does about as well as you
      would expect from the lack of static type declarations: that is, not very.

      I've heard good reports about a Python plugin for Eclipse; that's
      probably the way to go if you're going to use Jython (the Python
      port to Java.) BRM does not, to the best of my knowledge, support
      any of the Eclipse plugins. Beyond that, I can't say.

      I use PythonWin, it features syntax highlighting and auto indent,
      the latter saves me a *lot* of work since if the cursor winds
      up somewhere it shouldn't, it usually means there's something
      wrong with the preceeding line. BRM does not support PythonWin.

      I've never heard of automatic support for unittest in any IDE.
      Sounds like something the Eclipse plugins might do. However,
      one word of warning: any IDE that doesn't load the *entire*
      program you're developing from the interpreter up gives you
      very strange results when you try to import something. I think
      IDLE fixes this in 2.2.3 and 2.3, but I'm not sure. PythonWin
      sure doesn't, which is why I always test from a separate command
      prompt window.

      John Roth


      >
      > Bernd
      >
    • Duncan Booth
      ... Have you used any of Komodo, BlackAdder or Wing IDE? They each seem to promise more than the free IDEs like Idle and PythonWin, but I haven t used any of
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 1, 2003
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        Max Ischenko <max@...> wrote in news:3FCB2AA7.9050106@...:

        > Face it, there is no even powerful IDE
        > available.

        Have you used any of Komodo, BlackAdder or Wing IDE?

        They each seem to promise more than the free IDEs like Idle and PythonWin,
        but I haven't used any of them so I don't know how they measure up. If any
        refactoring support does come along for Python IDEs it might well appear in
        the commercial IDEs first.

        --
        Duncan Booth duncan@...
        int month(char *p){return(124864/((p[0]+p[1]-p[2]&0x1f)+1)%12)["\5\x8\3"
        "\6\7\xb\1\x9\xa\2\0\4"];} // Who said my code was obscure?
      • Max Ischenko
        ... I didn t use any of these so my option about absence of powerful IDE can be wrong. But I really really doubt that these could be honestly compared to the
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 1, 2003
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          Duncan Booth wrote:

          >>Face it, there is no even powerful IDE
          >>available.

          > Have you used any of Komodo, BlackAdder or Wing IDE?
          >
          > They each seem to promise more than the free IDEs like Idle and PythonWin,
          > but I haven't used any of them so I don't know how they measure up. If any
          > refactoring support does come along for Python IDEs it might well appear in
          > the commercial IDEs first.

          I didn't use any of these so my option about absence of powerful IDE can
          be wrong. But I really really doubt that these could be honestly
          compared to the tools like Eclipse in any foreseeable future.

          At least, they couldn’t give much to the spoiled users of Emacs/VIM
          editors. ;-)
        • Steve Howell
          ... A friend of mine worked on an XP team that used Python, vim, and Bicycle Repairman as the refactoring browser. I believe his only complaint about Bicycle
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 1, 2003
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            Bernd Schiffer wrote:

            >Hi everybody.
            >
            >I'm interested in developing in python. Therefor I'm looking for an
            >IDE with refactoring support and a xUnit framework (PyUnit?). Does
            >anyone know from experience about agile development with python? Are
            >there any agile tools?
            >
            >
            >
            A friend of mine worked on an XP team that used Python, vim, and Bicycle
            Repairman as the refactoring browser. I believe his only complaint
            about Bicycle Repairman was its lack of editor integration. As he
            described it, they had to save all files and get out of the editor to do
            the refactorings. This was about a year ago, so the tool maybe has
            gotten better. Also, if you know your editor well enough, you can
            probably do some of the editor integration yourself.

            I'd say Bicycle Repairman's definitely worth a try.
          • Brian Christopher Robinson
            ... I ve used the Python plugin for Eclipse but don t like it much. It will allow you to write some code and run it, but that s about it. There s no
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 1, 2003
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              On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 yahoogroups@... wrote:

              > I've heard good reports about a Python plugin for Eclipse; that's
              > probably the way to go if you're going to use Jython (the Python
              > port to Java.) BRM does not, to the best of my knowledge, support
              > any of the Eclipse plugins. Beyond that, I can't say.

              I've used the Python plugin for Eclipse but don't like it much. It will
              allow you to write some code and run it, but that's about it. There's
              no refactoring support and I had some formatting problems, I think due
              to the autoformatting putting in spaces instead of tabs or vice versa.
              For Python I prefer IDLE, though it's far from perfect.

              --
              Without requirements, the program is done now. - Ron Jeffries
            • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
              From: Brian Christopher Robinson Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 12:35 PM Subject: Re: [XP] Agile
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 1, 2003
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                From: "Brian Christopher Robinson"
                <brian.c.robinson.at.ngc.com@...>
                Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 12:35 PM
                Subject: Re: [XP] Agile tools for python?


                > On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 yahoogroups@... wrote:
                >
                > > I've heard good reports about a Python plugin for Eclipse; that's
                > > probably the way to go if you're going to use Jython (the Python
                > > port to Java.) BRM does not, to the best of my knowledge, support
                > > any of the Eclipse plugins. Beyond that, I can't say.
                >
                > I've used the Python plugin for Eclipse but don't like it much. It will
                > allow you to write some code and run it, but that's about it. There's
                > no refactoring support and I had some formatting problems, I think due
                > to the autoformatting putting in spaces instead of tabs or vice versa.
                > For Python I prefer IDLE, though it's far from perfect.

                The last I saw from the plugin registry for Eclipse, there are
                three Python plugins, although only one looks like it's being
                actively maintained. Which one did you use?

                John Roth
              • Brian Christopher Robinson
                ... I can t seem to tell from the description of the various ones at sourceforge. There appear to be about four there now. Do you have a recommendation? --
                Message 7 of 10 , Dec 1, 2003
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                  On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 yahoogroups@... wrote:

                  > The last I saw from the plugin registry for Eclipse, there are
                  > three Python plugins, although only one looks like it's being
                  > actively maintained. Which one did you use?

                  I can't seem to tell from the description of the various ones at
                  sourceforge. There appear to be about four there now. Do you have a
                  recommendation?

                  --
                  Without requirements, the program is done now. - Ron Jeffries
                • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
                  ... From: Brian Christopher Robinson To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                  Message 8 of 10 , Dec 1, 2003
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                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Brian Christopher Robinson"
                    <brian.c.robinson.at.ngc.com@...>
                    To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
                    <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
                    Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 4:54 PM
                    Subject: Re: [XP] Agile tools for python?


                    > On Mon, 1 Dec 2003 yahoogroups@... wrote:
                    >
                    > > The last I saw from the plugin registry for Eclipse, there are
                    > > three Python plugins, although only one looks like it's being
                    > > actively maintained. Which one did you use?
                    >
                    > I can't seem to tell from the description of the various ones at
                    > sourceforge. There appear to be about four there now. Do you have a
                    > recommendation?

                    Unfortunately not. I haven't used any of them. It's probably a
                    real good question to ask on comp.lang.python.

                    John Roth
                    >
                    > --
                    > Without requirements, the program is done now. - Ron Jeffries
                    >
                    >
                    >
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                  • Changjune Kim
                    ... From: Bernd Schiffer To: Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 7:58 PM Subject: [XP] Agile tools
                    Message 9 of 10 , Dec 2, 2003
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                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "Bernd Schiffer" <schifferbernd@...>
                      To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 7:58 PM
                      Subject: [XP] Agile tools for python?


                      > Hi everybody.
                      >
                      > I'm interested in developing in python. Therefor I'm looking for an
                      > IDE with refactoring support and a xUnit framework (PyUnit?). Does
                      > anyone know from experience about agile development with python? Are
                      > there any agile tools?
                      >
                      > Bernd
                      >

                      I use IDLE along with BRM(cvs version). I don't feel very uncomfortable when
                      using this set compared to when using Eclipse. Maybe it's because the language
                      is agile.
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