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Re: [XP] XP and Religion

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... I don t think it s dogmatic either. But I think one s listeners think it s dogmatic. They don t know what you know or where you are. You don t know what
    Message 1 of 215 , Nov 1, 2003
      On Saturday, November 1, 2003, at 9:24:40 AM, J. B. Rainsberger wrote:

      >> On Friday, October 31, 2003, at 7:56:59 PM, J. B. Rainsberger wrote:
      >>>So here are the opposing forces.
      >>>1. I would never write seriously about how to do XP, since I haven't
      >>>done enough XP.
      >>>2. Since I haven't done enough XP, I have to follow XP by the book
      >>>before I bend it.
      >>>3. If I don't bend XP, apparently I am dogmatic and therefore not Agile.
      >>>Stop the ride... I want to get off.
      >> Thing is, whatever we know, there is stuff outside. What we know provides
      >> some stability in the fact of change in what we do. There is always some
      >> possible change, some possible difference from what we know, that seems to
      >> be more than our skills are sure to stabilize. So we fear to go there. We
      >> become dogmatic.

      > I don't know that I see that as dogmatic, unless I'm just not able to
      > separate the book definition of the term from the emotionally-charged
      > one I have in my head.

      > cautious == dogmatic?

      I don't think it's dogmatic either. But I think one's listeners think it's

      They don't know what you know or where you are. You don't know what they
      know or where they are.

      So instead of exploring why we feel the way we do, we call each other
      names. I tire of it.

      >> To step far outside one's capabilities, into /real/ danger? Is that
      >> courage, or stupidity? I think it's stupidity. I'm brave enough to go a bit
      >> beyond where I've been before ... but I won't go /there/.

      > ...certainly not all once, anyway. Bit by bit, perhaps. But as I wrote
      > previously, I want to feel some damn success first. That's why I got
      > into XP in the first place: it looked like a path down which I could
      > find success. I want that. I'm greedy that way.

      > After I've succeeded a few times, then it's on to the Next Big Thing, I
      > guess.

      Sure. I'm just saying that a) that's natural, and b) it's good, and c)
      people would do well to stop saying "dogmatic stifling zen closed-minded
      religious fanatic" and start getting down to:

      We did this
      a) including these XP practices done X% well;
      b) not including these;
      c) in this environment;
      d) this happened;
      e) we tried this ...

      It's not about what is not perfect about XP, it's about people, their
      skills and their execution.

      //We// are not perfect; our skills are not perfect; our execution is not
      perfect. We should look at that to figure out what to do next.

      And did I mention that it might be time to whine a little less about how
      the other guy expresses his ideas, and spend a little more time learning
      how better to express our own?

      Ron Jeffries
      Sorry about your cow ... I didn't know she was sacred.
    • xp@darksleep.com
      Hi all, Just thougth I d throw in an XP-relevant comment on this thread. My weight has hovered just around 270lbs since high school, even when I was doing
      Message 215 of 215 , Nov 19, 2003
        Hi all,

        Just thougth I'd throw in an XP-relevant comment on this thread.

        My weight has hovered just around 270lbs since high school, even
        when I was doing martial arts seven days a week, even when I was doing
        capoeira (a highly physical, acrobatic martial art involving
        cartwheels and flips and the like). My fat/muscle balance changed,
        certainly (I sink like a rock in water), but my weight stayed the

        Oddly enough, my weight went *up* when I left a large corporate
        environment for a small startup where we did pair programming. I
        spent much more time sitting and coding, and much less time
        cubicle-crawling and schlepping to meetings.

        Of course, the fact that I traded the big corporate urban
        environs of the big coporate office for startup suburbia, and went
        from walking 5-10 blocks to an asian restaruant for lunch to hopping
        in the car and drove down the road to the greasy spoon, may have had
        something to do with it too :-).

        Steven J. Owens
        puff@... / (412) 401-8060 cell / (412) 578-9817 house
        | "I'm going to make broad, sweeping generalizations and strong,
        | declarative statements, because otherwise I'll be here all night and
        | this document will be four times longer and much less fun to read.
        | Take it all with a grain of salt."
        | - me, at http://darksleep.com
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