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Re: [XP] Re: Code Complete on XP

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  • Randy MacDonald
    ... fallacy of division ... I ve never heard of that term. Do you have a URL? In the meantime I googled the term... ok, front=middle if item is a singleton,
    Message 1 of 147 , Oct 13, 2003
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      At 05:30 AM 10/13/03, you wrote:
      >Randy MacDonald wrote:
      >
      > > At 05:06 PM 10/11/03, you wrote:
      > >>
      > >>
      > >>Isn't design done before the development starts /always/ "up front", even
      > >>if it's done in the middle of a project where other coding has been done?
      > >
      > > No. Up front .ne. middle (Semantics 101)
      >
      >No to your No - you're arguing for a fallacy of division that isn't
      >the case. (Semantics 102).

      "fallacy of division"... I've never heard of that term. Do you have a URL?
      In the meantime I googled the term... ok, front=middle if item is a
      singleton, i.e. if a project is small enough, its middle is its front. Not
      what I was arguing, I was saying that for a project of any size >1 there's
      going to be a middle, and up-front design is not what's being done. And for
      any project of small enough size, there's no need to design. If you feel
      the need to design, the project is too big.


      >Bill de hÓra
      >
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      Later...
      -----------------------------------------------------------------------
      |\/| Randy A MacDonald | you can't pay for it,
      |\\| randy@... | even if you want to.
      BSc(Math) UNBF'83 Sapere Aude | APL: If you can say it, it's done..
      Natural Born APL'er |
      ------------------------------------------------------------{ gnat }-
    • Ron Jeffries
      ... I understand that you encountered people who think they understand the big version better. Now please move on to the questions I asked. ;- Ron Jeffries
      Message 147 of 147 , Oct 20, 2003
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        On Monday, October 20, 2003, at 1:00:25 AM, Brad Appleton wrote:

        > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 01:41:29AM -0400, Ron Jeffries wrote:
        >> How do you know that "there are a lot of people" for whom strict linear
        >> flow is in fact easier? What metrics of comparative performance on code
        >> creation, code maintenance, and code debugging were collected on these
        >> people?

        > I met a lot of people and have spoken with a lot of people
        > who have looked at the same two pieces of code and said the
        > other one was easier and simpler in their mind. one piece
        > of code was ~10 routines of ~10 lines each. The other was a
        > single ~100 line routine. In both cases the language was C++
        > (uh oh :-) and while myself and others I know and respect felt
        > the more modular version was more maintainable, there were at
        > least as many or more who felt the single "all in one place"
        > was easier for them to follow to figure out what's going on
        > and follow/trace the flow.

        > They didn't just look at the two versions either. They actually
        > had to do testing and support and possibly debugging/tracing
        > for each one. They always preferred tracing the "linear
        > version" because they didn't have to keep the control flow
        > and the (what I would today call) System Metaphor in their
        > head. They didn't feel they needed to know the overall stuff,
        > just the details. And they felt that all the modularity and
        > encapsulation hid the details from them (imagine that :-)
        > and they considered it more complex and less maintainable for
        > them to support and deploy as a result.

        > I didn't agree with them of course, but I did feel I at least
        > understood where they were coming from and why they might feel
        > that way. And there seemed to be more of them then I had ever
        > imagined possible at the time :(

        I understand that you encountered people who think they understand the big
        version better. Now please move on to the questions I asked. ;->

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        Please state the nature of the development emergency. -- Ryan Ripley
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