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Re: [XP] XP in product development

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  • Ken Boucher
    ... I d need to know a little more about not having a customer because the second-best solution seems to depend on the product you re developing. You can
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
      > >2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
      > >have one.
      >
      > There's no single answer to this. A good product manager comes
      > close, though. The big problem I've found with product managers is
      > that to do their job well, they have to spend a lot of time in the
      > field talking to the real customers, and thus can't be on-site all
      > the time.

      I'd need to know a little more about "not having a customer" because
      the second-best solution seems to depend on the product you're
      developing. You can send project managers offsite, send programmers
      offsite, grab cell phones, Instant message, haul the customer on-
      site, meet at Brewski's after work, etc. etc. The real question
      is: "Who are the people who will use the product and how can you get
      the programmers in their head as easily as possible while insuring
      that the customers speak with one voice?"
    • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
      ... From: neelesh_shastry To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "neelesh_shastry"
        <neelesh_shastry.at.yahoo.com@...>
        To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
        <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
        Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:49 AM
        Subject: [XP] XP in product development


        > Hi,
        > Im new to the group and new to XP. Me and some of my friends are
        > working on a product, a XML editor.I am reading XP Explained by Kent
        > Beck, and thinking of doing a pilot with this product. I have some
        > doubts/issues though,
        >
        > 1.People in the team are skeptical about pair programming.I have
        > quoted from the book and other sites,but still not able to convince
        > the team.

        It sometimes takes training to turn on to pair programming. There
        is an article on the Ron Jeffries XP site called Etudes or something
        like that - it's a series of very short exercises to warm up to some
        of the practices, including pair programming.


        > 2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
        > have one.

        If you don't have a customer, who are you writing the software for?
        Seriously. Someone has to know what the software is supposed to
        do. That person is the customer. If that person can't be on site, you
        need to find a surrogate. In the worst case, that's your project manager,
        but a business or system analyst is better.


        > Im sure these issues have been addressed previously in the list, but
        > couldn't get a pointer.
        > Could someone help? some pointers to previous discussions,resources?

        There are a number of web sites on XP and similar topics; the white
        book is getting kind of dated as your only resource.

        www.extremeprogramming.org
        fit.c2.com
        www.fitnesse.org
        www.junit.org
        www.objectmentor.com
        www.pairprogramming.com
        www.refactoring.com
        industrialxp.org
        www.agiledata.org
        www.xp123.com
        www.xprogramming.com
        www.lean.org

        These just happen to be a selection of sites from my
        XP favorites folder. I'm sure there are a number out
        there that I've missed. I know I'm missing the Poppendieck's
        site. Enjoy.

        John Roth

        > thanks.
        > neelesh
        >
      • neelesh_shastry
        ... Thanks, guys, I think Im getting some clues on how to proceed.We are writing the software for the fun of it,but don t want to hack around. So I guess
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
          --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, yahoogroups@j... wrote:
          Thanks, guys, I think Im getting some clues on how to proceed.We are
          writing the software for the fun of it,but don't want to hack around.
          So I guess "customer" will be someone among us(putting the Customer's
          hat on), or someone who's interested in using the s/w (have to find one),
          thanks
          neelesh
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: "neelesh_shastry"
          > <neelesh_shastry.at.yahoo.com@y...>
          > To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
          > <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@y...>
          > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:49 AM
          > Subject: [XP] XP in product development
          >
          >
          > > Hi,
          > > Im new to the group and new to XP. Me and some of my friends are
          > > working on a product, a XML editor.I am reading XP Explained by Kent
          > > Beck, and thinking of doing a pilot with this product. I have some
          > > doubts/issues though,
          > >
          > > 1.People in the team are skeptical about pair programming.I have
          > > quoted from the book and other sites,but still not able to convince
          > > the team.
          >
          > It sometimes takes training to turn on to pair programming. There
          > is an article on the Ron Jeffries XP site called Etudes or something
          > like that - it's a series of very short exercises to warm up to some
          > of the practices, including pair programming.
          >
          >
          > > 2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
          > > have one.
          >
          > If you don't have a customer, who are you writing the software for?
          > Seriously. Someone has to know what the software is supposed to
          > do. That person is the customer. If that person can't be on site, you
          > need to find a surrogate. In the worst case, that's your project
          manager,
          > but a business or system analyst is better.
          >
          >
          > > Im sure these issues have been addressed previously in the list, but
          > > couldn't get a pointer.
          > > Could someone help? some pointers to previous discussions,resources?
          >
          > There are a number of web sites on XP and similar topics; the white
          > book is getting kind of dated as your only resource.
          >
          > www.extremeprogramming.org
          > fit.c2.com
          > www.fitnesse.org
          > www.junit.org
          > www.objectmentor.com
          > www.pairprogramming.com
          > www.refactoring.com
          > industrialxp.org
          > www.agiledata.org
          > www.xp123.com
          > www.xprogramming.com
          > www.lean.org
          >
          > These just happen to be a selection of sites from my
          > XP favorites folder. I'm sure there are a number out
          > there that I've missed. I know I'm missing the Poppendieck's
          > site. Enjoy.
          >
          > John Roth
          >
          > > thanks.
          > > neelesh
          > >
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