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Re: XP in product development

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  • raveendraiah
    There are some documents posted in Files section of this news group. And also http://xp123.com ... http://xp123.com/xplor/xp0005/index.shtml ...
    Message 1 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
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      There are some documents posted in Files section of this news group.
      And also http://xp123.com

      Pair programming:
      -----------------
      http://xp123.com/xplor/xp0005/index.shtml


      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "neelesh_shastry"
      <neelesh_shastry@y...> wrote:
      > Hi,
      > Im new to the group and new to XP. Me and some of my friends are
      > working on a product, a XML editor.I am reading XP Explained by Kent
      > Beck, and thinking of doing a pilot with this product. I have some
      > doubts/issues though,
      >
      > 1.People in the team are skeptical about pair programming.I have
      > quoted from the book and other sites,but still not able to convince
      > the team.
      > 2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
      > have one.
      > Im sure these issues have been addressed previously in the list, but
      > couldn't get a pointer.
      > Could someone help? some pointers to previous
      discussions,resources?
      > thanks.
      > neelesh
    • John Brewer
      ... I love pair programming. But given a choice between arguing with people about pair programming and getting on with doing the rest of XP, I d rather get on
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
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        >1.People in the team are skeptical about pair programming.I have
        >quoted from the book and other sites,but still not able to convince
        >the team.

        I love pair programming. But given a choice between arguing with
        people about pair programming and getting on with doing the rest of
        XP, I'd rather get on with the rest of XP.

        Don't give up on pair programming though. Work to modify your
        workplace to support it. That means setting up computers so that
        people can work at them side-by side. The standard
        keyboard-in-the-corner cubicle setup is a huge impediment to pair
        programming.

        Once you have the environment set up, you can model pair programming
        yourself. You do this by asking someone else on the team to help you
        with a "hard problem" from time to time. Your goal is to get people
        thinking that two programmers working together is a normal thing.
        Eventually, you can point out to people that they've already been
        doing pair programming. At that point they can evaluate the benefits
        themselves, instead of taking your word for it.

        >2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
        >have one.

        There's no single answer to this. A good product manager comes
        close, though. The big problem I've found with product managers is
        that to do their job well, they have to spend a lot of time in the
        field talking to the real customers, and thus can't be on-site all
        the time.
        --

        John Brewer
        Jera Design

        Extreme Programming FAQ: http://www.jera.com/techinfo/xpfaq.html
      • Ken Boucher
        ... I d need to know a little more about not having a customer because the second-best solution seems to depend on the product you re developing. You can
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
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          > >2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
          > >have one.
          >
          > There's no single answer to this. A good product manager comes
          > close, though. The big problem I've found with product managers is
          > that to do their job well, they have to spend a lot of time in the
          > field talking to the real customers, and thus can't be on-site all
          > the time.

          I'd need to know a little more about "not having a customer" because
          the second-best solution seems to depend on the product you're
          developing. You can send project managers offsite, send programmers
          offsite, grab cell phones, Instant message, haul the customer on-
          site, meet at Brewski's after work, etc. etc. The real question
          is: "Who are the people who will use the product and how can you get
          the programmers in their head as easily as possible while insuring
          that the customers speak with one voice?"
        • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
          ... From: neelesh_shastry To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "neelesh_shastry"
            <neelesh_shastry.at.yahoo.com@...>
            To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
            <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
            Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:49 AM
            Subject: [XP] XP in product development


            > Hi,
            > Im new to the group and new to XP. Me and some of my friends are
            > working on a product, a XML editor.I am reading XP Explained by Kent
            > Beck, and thinking of doing a pilot with this product. I have some
            > doubts/issues though,
            >
            > 1.People in the team are skeptical about pair programming.I have
            > quoted from the book and other sites,but still not able to convince
            > the team.

            It sometimes takes training to turn on to pair programming. There
            is an article on the Ron Jeffries XP site called Etudes or something
            like that - it's a series of very short exercises to warm up to some
            of the practices, including pair programming.


            > 2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
            > have one.

            If you don't have a customer, who are you writing the software for?
            Seriously. Someone has to know what the software is supposed to
            do. That person is the customer. If that person can't be on site, you
            need to find a surrogate. In the worst case, that's your project manager,
            but a business or system analyst is better.


            > Im sure these issues have been addressed previously in the list, but
            > couldn't get a pointer.
            > Could someone help? some pointers to previous discussions,resources?

            There are a number of web sites on XP and similar topics; the white
            book is getting kind of dated as your only resource.

            www.extremeprogramming.org
            fit.c2.com
            www.fitnesse.org
            www.junit.org
            www.objectmentor.com
            www.pairprogramming.com
            www.refactoring.com
            industrialxp.org
            www.agiledata.org
            www.xp123.com
            www.xprogramming.com
            www.lean.org

            These just happen to be a selection of sites from my
            XP favorites folder. I'm sure there are a number out
            there that I've missed. I know I'm missing the Poppendieck's
            site. Enjoy.

            John Roth

            > thanks.
            > neelesh
            >
          • neelesh_shastry
            ... Thanks, guys, I think Im getting some clues on how to proceed.We are writing the software for the fun of it,but don t want to hack around. So I guess
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
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              --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, yahoogroups@j... wrote:
              Thanks, guys, I think Im getting some clues on how to proceed.We are
              writing the software for the fun of it,but don't want to hack around.
              So I guess "customer" will be someone among us(putting the Customer's
              hat on), or someone who's interested in using the s/w (have to find one),
              thanks
              neelesh
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: "neelesh_shastry"
              > <neelesh_shastry.at.yahoo.com@y...>
              > To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
              > <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@y...>
              > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:49 AM
              > Subject: [XP] XP in product development
              >
              >
              > > Hi,
              > > Im new to the group and new to XP. Me and some of my friends are
              > > working on a product, a XML editor.I am reading XP Explained by Kent
              > > Beck, and thinking of doing a pilot with this product. I have some
              > > doubts/issues though,
              > >
              > > 1.People in the team are skeptical about pair programming.I have
              > > quoted from the book and other sites,but still not able to convince
              > > the team.
              >
              > It sometimes takes training to turn on to pair programming. There
              > is an article on the Ron Jeffries XP site called Etudes or something
              > like that - it's a series of very short exercises to warm up to some
              > of the practices, including pair programming.
              >
              >
              > > 2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
              > > have one.
              >
              > If you don't have a customer, who are you writing the software for?
              > Seriously. Someone has to know what the software is supposed to
              > do. That person is the customer. If that person can't be on site, you
              > need to find a surrogate. In the worst case, that's your project
              manager,
              > but a business or system analyst is better.
              >
              >
              > > Im sure these issues have been addressed previously in the list, but
              > > couldn't get a pointer.
              > > Could someone help? some pointers to previous discussions,resources?
              >
              > There are a number of web sites on XP and similar topics; the white
              > book is getting kind of dated as your only resource.
              >
              > www.extremeprogramming.org
              > fit.c2.com
              > www.fitnesse.org
              > www.junit.org
              > www.objectmentor.com
              > www.pairprogramming.com
              > www.refactoring.com
              > industrialxp.org
              > www.agiledata.org
              > www.xp123.com
              > www.xprogramming.com
              > www.lean.org
              >
              > These just happen to be a selection of sites from my
              > XP favorites folder. I'm sure there are a number out
              > there that I've missed. I know I'm missing the Poppendieck's
              > site. Enjoy.
              >
              > John Roth
              >
              > > thanks.
              > > neelesh
              > >
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