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XP in product development

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  • neelesh_shastry
    Hi, Im new to the group and new to XP. Me and some of my friends are working on a product, a XML editor.I am reading XP Explained by Kent Beck, and thinking of
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 30, 2003
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      Hi,
      Im new to the group and new to XP. Me and some of my friends are
      working on a product, a XML editor.I am reading XP Explained by Kent
      Beck, and thinking of doing a pilot with this product. I have some
      doubts/issues though,

      1.People in the team are skeptical about pair programming.I have
      quoted from the book and other sites,but still not able to convince
      the team.
      2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
      have one.
      Im sure these issues have been addressed previously in the list, but
      couldn't get a pointer.
      Could someone help? some pointers to previous discussions,resources?
      thanks.
      neelesh
    • raveendraiah
      There are some documents posted in Files section of this news group. And also http://xp123.com ... http://xp123.com/xplor/xp0005/index.shtml ...
      Message 2 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
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        There are some documents posted in Files section of this news group.
        And also http://xp123.com

        Pair programming:
        -----------------
        http://xp123.com/xplor/xp0005/index.shtml


        --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "neelesh_shastry"
        <neelesh_shastry@y...> wrote:
        > Hi,
        > Im new to the group and new to XP. Me and some of my friends are
        > working on a product, a XML editor.I am reading XP Explained by Kent
        > Beck, and thinking of doing a pilot with this product. I have some
        > doubts/issues though,
        >
        > 1.People in the team are skeptical about pair programming.I have
        > quoted from the book and other sites,but still not able to convince
        > the team.
        > 2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
        > have one.
        > Im sure these issues have been addressed previously in the list, but
        > couldn't get a pointer.
        > Could someone help? some pointers to previous
        discussions,resources?
        > thanks.
        > neelesh
      • John Brewer
        ... I love pair programming. But given a choice between arguing with people about pair programming and getting on with doing the rest of XP, I d rather get on
        Message 3 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
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          >1.People in the team are skeptical about pair programming.I have
          >quoted from the book and other sites,but still not able to convince
          >the team.

          I love pair programming. But given a choice between arguing with
          people about pair programming and getting on with doing the rest of
          XP, I'd rather get on with the rest of XP.

          Don't give up on pair programming though. Work to modify your
          workplace to support it. That means setting up computers so that
          people can work at them side-by side. The standard
          keyboard-in-the-corner cubicle setup is a huge impediment to pair
          programming.

          Once you have the environment set up, you can model pair programming
          yourself. You do this by asking someone else on the team to help you
          with a "hard problem" from time to time. Your goal is to get people
          thinking that two programmers working together is a normal thing.
          Eventually, you can point out to people that they've already been
          doing pair programming. At that point they can evaluate the benefits
          themselves, instead of taking your word for it.

          >2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
          >have one.

          There's no single answer to this. A good product manager comes
          close, though. The big problem I've found with product managers is
          that to do their job well, they have to spend a lot of time in the
          field talking to the real customers, and thus can't be on-site all
          the time.
          --

          John Brewer
          Jera Design

          Extreme Programming FAQ: http://www.jera.com/techinfo/xpfaq.html
        • Ken Boucher
          ... I d need to know a little more about not having a customer because the second-best solution seems to depend on the product you re developing. You can
          Message 4 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
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            > >2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
            > >have one.
            >
            > There's no single answer to this. A good product manager comes
            > close, though. The big problem I've found with product managers is
            > that to do their job well, they have to spend a lot of time in the
            > field talking to the real customers, and thus can't be on-site all
            > the time.

            I'd need to know a little more about "not having a customer" because
            the second-best solution seems to depend on the product you're
            developing. You can send project managers offsite, send programmers
            offsite, grab cell phones, Instant message, haul the customer on-
            site, meet at Brewski's after work, etc. etc. The real question
            is: "Who are the people who will use the product and how can you get
            the programmers in their head as easily as possible while insuring
            that the customers speak with one voice?"
          • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
            ... From: neelesh_shastry To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "neelesh_shastry"
              <neelesh_shastry.at.yahoo.com@...>
              To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
              <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
              Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:49 AM
              Subject: [XP] XP in product development


              > Hi,
              > Im new to the group and new to XP. Me and some of my friends are
              > working on a product, a XML editor.I am reading XP Explained by Kent
              > Beck, and thinking of doing a pilot with this product. I have some
              > doubts/issues though,
              >
              > 1.People in the team are skeptical about pair programming.I have
              > quoted from the book and other sites,but still not able to convince
              > the team.

              It sometimes takes training to turn on to pair programming. There
              is an article on the Ron Jeffries XP site called Etudes or something
              like that - it's a series of very short exercises to warm up to some
              of the practices, including pair programming.


              > 2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
              > have one.

              If you don't have a customer, who are you writing the software for?
              Seriously. Someone has to know what the software is supposed to
              do. That person is the customer. If that person can't be on site, you
              need to find a surrogate. In the worst case, that's your project manager,
              but a business or system analyst is better.


              > Im sure these issues have been addressed previously in the list, but
              > couldn't get a pointer.
              > Could someone help? some pointers to previous discussions,resources?

              There are a number of web sites on XP and similar topics; the white
              book is getting kind of dated as your only resource.

              www.extremeprogramming.org
              fit.c2.com
              www.fitnesse.org
              www.junit.org
              www.objectmentor.com
              www.pairprogramming.com
              www.refactoring.com
              industrialxp.org
              www.agiledata.org
              www.xp123.com
              www.xprogramming.com
              www.lean.org

              These just happen to be a selection of sites from my
              XP favorites folder. I'm sure there are a number out
              there that I've missed. I know I'm missing the Poppendieck's
              site. Enjoy.

              John Roth

              > thanks.
              > neelesh
              >
            • neelesh_shastry
              ... Thanks, guys, I think Im getting some clues on how to proceed.We are writing the software for the fun of it,but don t want to hack around. So I guess
              Message 6 of 6 , Oct 1, 2003
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                --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, yahoogroups@j... wrote:
                Thanks, guys, I think Im getting some clues on how to proceed.We are
                writing the software for the fun of it,but don't want to hack around.
                So I guess "customer" will be someone among us(putting the Customer's
                hat on), or someone who's interested in using the s/w (have to find one),
                thanks
                neelesh
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "neelesh_shastry"
                > <neelesh_shastry.at.yahoo.com@y...>
                > To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
                > <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@y...>
                > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 2:49 AM
                > Subject: [XP] XP in product development
                >
                >
                > > Hi,
                > > Im new to the group and new to XP. Me and some of my friends are
                > > working on a product, a XML editor.I am reading XP Explained by Kent
                > > Beck, and thinking of doing a pilot with this product. I have some
                > > doubts/issues though,
                > >
                > > 1.People in the team are skeptical about pair programming.I have
                > > quoted from the book and other sites,but still not able to convince
                > > the team.
                >
                > It sometimes takes training to turn on to pair programming. There
                > is an article on the Ron Jeffries XP site called Etudes or something
                > like that - it's a series of very short exercises to warm up to some
                > of the practices, including pair programming.
                >
                >
                > > 2.What is the best way of replacing the Customer ,because we don't
                > > have one.
                >
                > If you don't have a customer, who are you writing the software for?
                > Seriously. Someone has to know what the software is supposed to
                > do. That person is the customer. If that person can't be on site, you
                > need to find a surrogate. In the worst case, that's your project
                manager,
                > but a business or system analyst is better.
                >
                >
                > > Im sure these issues have been addressed previously in the list, but
                > > couldn't get a pointer.
                > > Could someone help? some pointers to previous discussions,resources?
                >
                > There are a number of web sites on XP and similar topics; the white
                > book is getting kind of dated as your only resource.
                >
                > www.extremeprogramming.org
                > fit.c2.com
                > www.fitnesse.org
                > www.junit.org
                > www.objectmentor.com
                > www.pairprogramming.com
                > www.refactoring.com
                > industrialxp.org
                > www.agiledata.org
                > www.xp123.com
                > www.xprogramming.com
                > www.lean.org
                >
                > These just happen to be a selection of sites from my
                > XP favorites folder. I'm sure there are a number out
                > there that I've missed. I know I'm missing the Poppendieck's
                > site. Enjoy.
                >
                > John Roth
                >
                > > thanks.
                > > neelesh
                > >
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