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Re: [XP] SCM makes renaming and moving files painful

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  • Keith Ray
    There s some kind of Smalltalk- CVS interface that I heard some people use when they can t use a Smalltalk-savvy SCC system, and I wonder how that handles
    Message 1 of 11 , Sep 1, 2003
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      There's some kind of Smalltalk->CVS interface that I heard some people
      use when they can't use a Smalltalk-savvy SCC system, and I wonder how
      that handles renaming classes...

      Smalltalkers don't normally see "files" as a unit of source code
      control, since they don't use normally source code files for
      development. I think VisualAge Smalltalk does (local) versioning of
      methods even without a centralized SCC system.

      On Sunday, August 31, 2003, at 05:33 PM, WATKINS, Robert wrote:

      > Neil Swingler wrote:
      >> Clearcase can handle file and directory renames. This means
      >> it can correctly
      >> handle a merge where one person changes the contents of a
      >> file/directory
      >> and another moves the file/directory at the same time.
      >
      > Exactly! ClearCase and SubVersion don't attempt to layer their version
      > control on top of the filesystem they are versioning. This means that
      > changing the location of a file within the virtual versioned
      > filesystem is
      > easy and safe. Furthermore, you can see, for example, changes made to
      > a file
      > on a branch that was created before the move and merge them over
      > easily.
      >
      > The rename is part of the logical set of changes to a file, just as
      > adding a
      > new line is. Tools that can support this make for greater flexibility.
      >
      > (Anyone know of any other SCMs that can do this? I believe some of the
      > Smalltalk ones could...)
      >
      > Robert.
      >
      > --
      > "Software is too expensive to build cheaply"
      > Robert Watkins System
      > Architect
      > robertdw@...
      > robert.watkins@...
      >
      >
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      --
      C. Keith Ray
      <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/index.html>
      <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/xpminifaq.html>
      <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume2.html>
    • Colin Putney
      ... Do you remember what it was called by any chance? ... Yup. AFAIK, most Smalltalk implementations do this, usually by journalling changes as they are made.
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 1, 2003
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        On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 07:41 AM, Keith Ray wrote:

        > There's some kind of Smalltalk->CVS interface that I heard some people
        > use when they can't use a Smalltalk-savvy SCC system, and I wonder how
        > that handles renaming classes...

        Do you remember what it was called by any chance?

        > Smalltalkers don't normally see "files" as a unit of source code
        > control, since they don't use normally source code files for
        > development. I think VisualAge Smalltalk does (local) versioning of
        > methods even without a centralized SCC system.

        Yup. AFAIK, most Smalltalk implementations do this, usually by
        journalling changes as they are made. To get the history of a given
        method, you just have to scan the journal.

        I (and a couple of other people) recently implemented a Smalltalk SCM
        system called Monticello. Early versions used CVS as a back end, but in
        the last couple of months we move to native repositories. Monticello,
        or DVS as it was originally called, stores a whole package in a single
        file. We ran into the renaming issue with CVS if you changed the name
        of the project. More recent versions don't care about filenames, so you
        can name things whatever you like.

        Monticello works by keeping a series of snapshots of a package, so it
        doesn't track the renaming of classes or methods. If you rename a class
        in between snapshots, it's indistinguishable from removing the old
        class and adding the new one. To be honest, I've never even thought
        about this before. I can see how tracking renames might be useful, but
        I've never run into the need for it myself. Monticello is mature enough
        now that people are starting to use it for real work though, so maybe
        we'll get some stories about renaming.

        Colin
      • Chris Hanson
        ... I m pretty sure this applies to Perforce as well. And arch can probably do it too. (I can t get to right now to check.) -- Chris
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 1, 2003
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          On Sunday, August 31, 2003, at 07:33 PM, WATKINS, Robert wrote:
          > The rename is part of the logical set of changes to a file, just as
          > adding a
          > new line is. Tools that can support this make for greater flexibility.
          >
          > (Anyone know of any other SCMs that can do this? I believe some of the
          > Smalltalk ones could...)

          I'm pretty sure this applies to Perforce as well.

          And arch can probably do it too. (I can't get to
          <http://www.regexps.com/> right now to check.)

          -- Chris

          --
          Chris Hanson, bDistributed.com, Inc. | Email: cmh@...
          Custom Mac OS X Development | Phone: +1-847-372-3955
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