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RE: [XP] Re: RUP is Agile? -- Rational tools

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  • Dave Rooney
    OK, then why do people at Rational like Grady Booch, Philippe Kruchten and Gary Pollice actively support agile development methods? My feeling is that the
    Message 1 of 33 , Aug 29, 2003
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      OK, then why do people at Rational like Grady Booch, Philippe Kruchten and Gary Pollice actively support agile development methods?

      My feeling is that the minds behind the tools and RUP framework are in step with agile development, but the marketing people are just trying to sell solutions based on the tools. I have seen that first-hand, and didn't like it very much.

      IMHO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the RUP, and it can easily be instantiated for an agile project, with or without the XP plug-in.

      > > [...] As for Rational, [xxxx xxxx]. They suck.

      Before Ron jumps in, rudeness objection.

      Dave Rooney
      Mayford Technologies
      http://www.mayford.ca

      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Jeff Grigg [mailto:jeffgrigg@...]
      > Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 8:24 AM
      > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [XP] Re: RUP is Agile? -- Rational tools
      >
      >
      > --- "vidmas_k" <vidmas_k@y...> wrote:
      > > I'm in the same situation. CMMi level 3 maps well to XP.
      > > However, you need to enforce it to meet contractual
      > > obligations and map the processes correctly. [...]
      >
      > I think that "constant peer review" could be documented as the
      > enforcement mechanism. (Compared to an "audit trail" of documents,
      > for other methods.)
      >
      > > [...] I will clarify things later with a long-winded
      > > boring post. [...]
      >
      > We'll look forward to it. ;->
      >
      >
      > > [...] As for Rational, [xxxx xxxx]. They suck.
      >
      > I'm fond of saying, every time Rational tools shaft us, "Whatever
      > methodology Rational uses to develop these tools, I wouldn't want to
      > use it on my project." ;->
      >
      > > Rational software and XP will eventually blend as well
      > > as oil and vinegar.
      >
      > Nicely put.
      >
      > > [...] We bought some of their software based on promises
      > > on features that were going to be delivered in future
      > > versions. [...]
      >
      > Hahahaha. That's an old one. Very Dilber-esque. ;->
      >
      >
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    • John D. Mitchell
      ... [...] ... No, I just gave you a definition of platform . What you do with that definition is your business. Now, if you re asking what I think about what
      Message 33 of 33 , Sep 2, 2003
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        >>>>> "Ron" == Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> writes:
        >>>>>> On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 11:40:23 AM, John D. Mitchell writes:
        >>>>>>> "Ron" == Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...> writes:
        >>>>>>>> On Monday, September 1, 2003, at 9:48:53 AM, Steven Gordon writes:
        [...]

        >>>> Maybe, it is a marketing platform?

        >>> I don't understand this use of the word "platform". But maybe it is.

        >> Check out:

        >> http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=platform

        > John, if you are supporting the view that the RUP is a platform, I don't
        > get it. Vide infra ...

        No, I just gave you a definition of "platform". What you do with that
        definition is your business.


        Now, if you're asking what I think about what RUP is/is-not, I think "it"
        comprises two primary facets w.r.t. this discussion:

        First, it's a *label* for something that is actually a specific
        "meta-process".

        Second, it's a *label* that is used to market a pile of (usually ridiculously
        expensive) products and services.

        Personally, I don't presume that there is any a priori overlap or
        intersection between those two facets. :-)

        Take care,
        John
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