Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [XP] Anyone heard about this study?

Expand Messages
  • Ian Collins
    ... One has to learn the art of getting up and walking away from a problem. I ve lost count of the number of bugs fixed while sitting in the little boys room!
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 1 4:54 PM
    • 0 Attachment
      >
      >
      >o Conversely (and perhaps perversely), when is it
      > GOOD to stay on task for extra hours? I recall
      > certain times that continued concentration really
      > seemed to help (and even was perhaps unavoidable -
      > when you're at the stage you code in your dreams,
      > and that on your present project). Not for long,
      > though. I'm thinking the applicable case was when
      > the overall design was clear in my mind but the
      > implementation was knotty. (Again, I'm assuming
      > adequate sleep, at least averaged over several days.)
      >

      One has to learn the art of getting up and walking away from a problem.
      I've lost count of the number of bugs fixed while sitting in the little
      boys room!

      Tip - drink lots of water or tea, then you are forced to walk away on a
      regular basis.

      To answer the question, when you are on a roll. I'm happy for my people
      to work a 10+ hour day, provided they don't go over 40 for the week too
      often.

      Does anyone know of any studies on subconscious problem solving? I hear
      plenty of anecdotal evidence and I have several personal experiences.
      I'm sure someone must have studied it.

      Ian
    • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
      ... From: Ian Collins To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 2 2:47 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Ian Collins"
        <masuma.ian.at.quicksilver.net.nz@...>
        To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
        <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
        Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 7:54 PM
        Subject: Re: [XP] Anyone heard about this study?


        > >
        > >
        > >o Conversely (and perhaps perversely), when is it
        > > GOOD to stay on task for extra hours? I recall
        > > certain times that continued concentration really
        > > seemed to help (and even was perhaps unavoidable -
        > > when you're at the stage you code in your dreams,
        > > and that on your present project). Not for long,
        > > though. I'm thinking the applicable case was when
        > > the overall design was clear in my mind but the
        > > implementation was knotty. (Again, I'm assuming
        > > adequate sleep, at least averaged over several days.)
        > >
        >
        > One has to learn the art of getting up and walking away from a problem.
        > I've lost count of the number of bugs fixed while sitting in the little
        > boys room!
        >
        > Tip - drink lots of water or tea, then you are forced to walk away on a
        > regular basis.
        >
        > To answer the question, when you are on a roll. I'm happy for my people
        > to work a 10+ hour day, provided they don't go over 40 for the week too
        > often.
        >
        > Does anyone know of any studies on subconscious problem solving? I hear
        > plenty of anecdotal evidence and I have several personal experiences.
        > I'm sure someone must have studied it.

        The way I understand it, the brain can operate in a rather large number
        of configurations; that is, it has different patterns of activation and
        information
        flow depending on what it's doing. When we're stuck on a problem, the
        current patterns aren't capable of handling it. When we move off and do
        something else, we change the activation patterns, and sometimes that,
        by itself, is enough to solve it.

        This is what pair programming does for us. One of the two people is
        in "creative" mode, writing code, and the other is in "critic" mode,
        analyzing the code that's being written to see if it works, if it will do
        the job it's intended to do, whether there are code smells, and on and
        on and on.

        It's impossible for one person to do both at once effectively. Some
        people can switch back and forth easily enough that they can write
        some code and then critique it before they hit the compile button.
        Most of us can't, or find that switching that rapidly is very fatiguing.

        Unconcious (not subconcious, please!) problem solving simply
        means that the actual process isn't in concious awareness. There are
        lots of things going on in the brain that aren't in most people's
        awareness. That's one of the things that makes it difficult to analyze
        properly: introspection depends on being concious of your own
        process, and becoming concious of your process interferes with it.

        John Roth


        >
        > Ian
        >
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
        >
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
        >
        > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
        >
        >
      • John D. Mitchell
        ... [...] ... Improving on a bad situation may be an improvement but that doesn t imply that it s objectively good . I.e., cutting down to 1 pack of
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 7 8:22 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          >>>>> "andy" == andy glew <andy.glew@...> writes:
          [...]

          >> I catch up on my sleep on weekends. Studies have show you live longer if
          >> you do that.

          Improving on a bad situation may be an improvement but that doesn't imply
          that it's objectively "good". I.e., cutting down to 1 pack of cigarettes
          per day is arguably an improvement for a 2 pack per day smoker but that's
          still bad for you.

          > Partly so... but the version I have heard (I believe on NPR pop sci
          > radio) is that it doesn't work out like that. You cannot make up for a
          > sleep deficit through the weekend. Some of the damage is irreversible.

          Indeed!

          What's more, this "catch-up" approach is an interesting mirror of the "I'm
          on a diet" mindset. The yo-yo-ing is, itself, damaging.


          Now, for Ron and some other folks on the list who are into "eastern"
          things, there are an increasing number of western style studies that are
          validating the beneficial phsyiological effects of "meditation" (be it
          traditional sitting or "meditation in movement" ala tai chi).

          It goes without saying that I leave the integration of those two threads as
          an exercise for the reader. :-? :-)

          Mu,
          John
        • Phlip
          ... if ... I repeat: I don t do all nighters, I aim for 8.5 hours sleep per night, and I don t set an alarm clock without a reason. And
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 7 8:25 AM
          • 0 Attachment
            > >> I catch up on my sleep on weekends. Studies have show you live longer
            if
            > >> you do that.
            >
            > Improving on a bad situation may be an improvement but that doesn't imply
            > that it's objectively "good". I.e., cutting down to 1 pack of cigarettes
            > per day is arguably an improvement for a 2 pack per day smoker but that's
            > still bad for you.

            I repeat: I don't do all nighters, I aim for 8.5 hours sleep per night, and
            I don't set an alarm clock without a reason. >And< I catch up on sleep on
            weekends.

            Y'all are projecting!

            > Now, for Ron and some other folks on the list who are into "eastern"
            > things, there are an increasing number of western style studies that are
            > validating the beneficial phsyiological effects of "meditation" (be it
            > traditional sitting or "meditation in movement" ala tai chi).

            There are also studies that show drinking beer and watching the tube are
            good for you!

            --
            Phlip
            http://www.greencheese.org/MayorZogg
            -- Programming without Tan Lines, LLC --
          • John D. Mitchell
            ... [...] ... Nope. By definition, if you need to catch up on sleep on the weekends then you are NOT getting enough rest during the week. It s irrelevent
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 7 8:37 AM
            • 0 Attachment
              >>>>> "Phlip" == Phlip <plumlee@...> writes:
              [...]

              >> Improving on a bad situation may be an improvement but that doesn't
              >> imply that it's objectively "good". I.e., cutting down to 1 pack of
              >> cigarettes per day is arguably an improvement for a 2 pack per day
              >> smoker but that's still bad for you.

              > I repeat: I don't do all nighters, I aim for 8.5 hours sleep per night,
              > and I don't set an alarm clock without a reason. >And< I catch up on
              > sleep on weekends.

              > Y'all are projecting!

              Nope. By definition, if you need to "catch up" on sleep on the weekends
              then you are NOT getting enough rest during the week.

              It's irrelevent what the specific number of hours of "sleep" that you are
              getting during the week since that's a highly individual thing and there
              are many types of sleep disorders that insidiously rob us of real rest.


              >> Now, for Ron and some other folks on the list who are into "eastern"
              >> things, there are an increasing number of western style studies that are
              >> validating the beneficial phsyiological effects of "meditation" (be it
              >> traditional sitting or "meditation in movement" ala tai chi).

              > There are also studies that show drinking beer and watching the tube are
              > good for you!

              Hmm... Those studies are easy to falsify (rigorously).

              Sweet dreams,
              John
            • Asim Jalis
              ... Plus it has the flavor of phased/waterfall process. Saving up your sleep for the weekend smells like leaving all the testing for the end of the project.
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 7 10:24 AM
              • 0 Attachment
                On Thu, Aug 07, 2003 at 08:22:31AM -0700, John D. Mitchell wrote:
                > Andy Glew <andy.glew@...> writes:
                > > Partly so... but the version I have heard (I believe on NPR
                > > pop sci radio) is that it doesn't work out like that. You
                > > cannot make up for a sleep deficit through the weekend. Some
                > > of the damage is irreversible.
                >
                > Indeed!
                >
                > What's more, this "catch-up" approach is an interesting mirror
                > of the "I'm on a diet" mindset. The yo-yo-ing is, itself,
                > damaging.

                Plus it has the flavor of phased/waterfall process. Saving up
                your sleep for the weekend smells like leaving all the testing
                for the end of the project.


                Asim
              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.