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Re: [XP] YAGNI and iterative form of development

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  • Keith Ray
    Someone was talking about Daily Iterations at the Agile SWD Conference in Salt Lake City... ... -- C. Keith Ray
    Message 1 of 74 , Jul 1, 2003
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      Someone was talking about "Daily Iterations" at the Agile SWD
      Conference in Salt Lake City...

      On Tuesday, July 1, 2003, at 05:43 PM, Erik Hanson wrote:

      > "Jeff Grigg" <jeffgrigg@...> wrote:
      >>> From: "Erik Hanson"
      >>>> [...] Two years later, we're still doing variable-duration
      >>>> iterations (and suffering
      >>>> from it, IMHO).
      >>
      >> And you can't change it?
      >
      > Nope. I have repeatedly offered my opinions, suggestions and guidance.
      > I try
      > to offer fixed-duration iterations as a solution to various problems
      > when I
      > feel it's applicable. That's all I can do. I don't make the decisions.
      >
      > Our project is going much better than it would have had we not
      > attempted XP.
      > In many ways, I think it is one of the most successful large(-ish),
      > long-term projects I have been involved with. Obviously, I think it
      > would be
      > better if we did full XP, but we don't.
      --
      C. Keith Ray
      <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/index.html>
      <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/xpminifaq.html>
      <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume2.html>
    • Ron Jeffries
      ... Practice, man, practice! ... Wherever we want to. When we are faced with multiple forces and can only go one way, we have to choose. Practically every
      Message 74 of 74 , Jul 8, 2003
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        On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 2:07:23 PM, amr@... wrote:

        > This has been a very good discussion (at least for me). At this point in
        > time I will stop arguing a hypothetical example - it is just not working
        > here. It is hard to listen to 200 people tell you that you are wrong and
        > insist that you are right - although I really gave it my best shot :c)

        Practice, man, practice!

        > ...

        > Finally this brings me full circle - if many of your agree with Glen and
        > Dale that experience IS valuable. Then I pose this question:

        > "Where do we use our experience within the limits/boundries of TDD/XP?"

        Wherever we want to. When we are faced with multiple forces and can only go
        one way, we have to choose. Practically every choice we make is like that
        in one way or another.

        > More to the point - can our experience lead us away from pure TDD and
        > YAGNI in some circumstances?

        We can make that choice. I've been pushing YAGNI hard for years now, in
        "toy" programs ;-> and things always work out fine. The reason might be
        that recognizing what I want to put in early, I am sensitive to the first
        "legitimate" reason to put it in, so I don't go too far from what I might
        have done had I ignored YAGNI.

        > If not - then cool - I won't argue the point - I'm kind of burned out.

        > But if so - then where? What/when/where might things be tweaked to
        > incorporate our experience?

        Any time we want. All the time. It's just a rule.

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        "Some people take everything personally." -- Ron Jeffries
        "I do not!" -- Ann Anderson
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