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Atlas SWEBOKed

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  • Edmund Schweppe
    Over the last few days, I ve read through a couple of lengthy tomes: Ayn Rand s _Atlas Shrugged_ and the SWECC s Guide to the SWEBOK, both for the first time.
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 1, 2003
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      Over the last few days, I've read through a couple of lengthy tomes: Ayn
      Rand's _Atlas Shrugged_ and the SWECC's Guide to the SWEBOK, both for
      the first time. I noticed a number of surprising parallels:

      - I'd *heard* a lot about both books - and as it turned out, most of
      what I'd heard was inaccurate.

      - Both appear (to me, at least) rather dated. The SWEBOK Guide seemed to
      be several years out of date; _AS_ is several *decades* out of date.

      - Neither books' underlying philosophy is *completely* wrong; both
      books' underlying philosophy strikes me as *mostly* wrong. There is some
      amount of value in there, but it's buried pretty deep.

      - I paid no cash money either for my copy of the SWEBOK Guide
      (downloaded off swebok.org) or for the copy of _AS_ (borrowed from my
      local municipal library). In both cases, I got my money's worth.

      Still, the fifth Harry Potter book was much better. And I can re-read
      _Order of the Phoenix_ with a clear conscience, knowing that I've done
      my duty to myself by plowing through _Atlas SWEBOKed_.

      --
      Edmund Schweppe -- schweppe@... -- http://schweppe.home.tiac.net
      The opinions expressed herein are at best coincidentally related to
      those of any past, present or future employer.
    • Curtis Cooley
      So, Edmund, what is it about the books that cause people to buy into them so passionately? I ve not read either book, but I do know Atlas is a lengthy tome.
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
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        So, Edmund, what is it about the books that cause people to buy into
        them so passionately? I've not read either book, but I do know Atlas is
        a lengthy tome. I've heard good and bad but seldom in the middle. Your
        review is thoughtful and absent of zealous emotion, so I'd really like
        your opinion as to why anyone would adopt Atlas and Anne as almost a
        religion and prophet?

        On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 17:52, Edmund Schweppe wrote:
        > Over the last few days, I've read through a couple of lengthy tomes: Ayn
        > Rand's _Atlas Shrugged_ and the SWECC's Guide to the SWEBOK, both for
        > the first time. I noticed a number of surprising parallels:
        >
        > - I'd *heard* a lot about both books - and as it turned out, most of
        > what I'd heard was inaccurate.
        >
        > - Both appear (to me, at least) rather dated. The SWEBOK Guide seemed to
        > be several years out of date; _AS_ is several *decades* out of date.
        >
        > - Neither books' underlying philosophy is *completely* wrong; both
        > books' underlying philosophy strikes me as *mostly* wrong. There is some
        > amount of value in there, but it's buried pretty deep.
        >
        > - I paid no cash money either for my copy of the SWEBOK Guide
        > (downloaded off swebok.org) or for the copy of _AS_ (borrowed from my
        > local municipal library). In both cases, I got my money's worth.
        >
        > Still, the fifth Harry Potter book was much better. And I can re-read
        > _Order of the Phoenix_ with a clear conscience, knowing that I've done
        > my duty to myself by plowing through _Atlas SWEBOKed_.
        --
        ======================
        Curtis R Cooley
        RADSoft
        Better software faster
        curtis@...
        ----------------------
        Leela: Bender's flying too low! And he's upside-down!
        Protestor: He must be talking on a cell-phone.
      • Phlip
        ... I found The Fountainhead to be pure candy. However, I carefully avoided all the fawning Objectivist verbiage around it, such as the introduction or back
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
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          Edmund Schweppe wrong:


          > Over the last few days, I've read through a couple of lengthy tomes: Ayn
          > Rand's _Atlas Shrugged_ and the SWECC's Guide to the SWEBOK, both for
          > the first time. I noticed a number of surprising parallels:

          I found The Fountainhead to be pure candy.

          However, I carefully avoided all the fawning Objectivist verbiage around it,
          such as the introduction or back cover - the stuff that helps witness, and
          set up your expectations.

          For example, you could conceivably take from the book the ideal that whether
          or not socialism is wrong has nothing to do with whether Ellsworth Toohey
          exploits its rhetoric for petty meddling & influence peddling. (Shocked
          gasp!)

          And, if you manage to divorce Howard Roark's clear artistic vision from his
          nearly autistic social skills, you might even - possibly - come to realize
          that his speech about objectivism may work for him, but that parroting his
          speach is >not< Objectivism! (Shocked gasp!!)

          > - Both appear (to me, at least) rather dated. The SWEBOK Guide seemed to
          > be several years out of date; _AS_ is several *decades* out of date.

          SWEBOK is a power grab.

          > Still, the fifth Harry Potter book was much better.

          >Bleah!<

          I don't know if I related the following anecdote here before, so here goes:
          While raising a daughter in the late 1990s, we went to bookstores a lot.
          Whenever we saw one of those insipid displays for HP I would point it out to
          Ashley, and ask her to repeat "just say no to Harry Potter". Eventually all
          I needed to do was point it out, and she'd say "just say no to Harry Potter"
          back to me.

          Then we went to see the first movie. Of course, Ashley spent the whole movie
          gripping the seat back in front of her.

          Afterwards she asked, "Why did you teach me to 'just say no to Harry
          Potter'?"

          "I was experimenting with your brain."

          --
          Phlip
          http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?TestFirstUserInterfaces
        • David Vydra
          I can t resist bringing in Jesse into the discussion. From http://polisat.com/jventurap.htm : In yet another example of Jesse Ventura s brutal honesty, he
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
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            I can't resist bringing in Jesse into the discussion.

            From http://polisat.com/jventurap.htm :

            In yet another example of Jesse Ventura's brutal honesty, he explains that
            his description of organized religion as a "sham" for the "weak-minded" was
            not really intended to insult or denigrate religious people and that it's
            really "okay" to be "weak-minded."

            Funny, Rand had the same view as far as I can tell. I say that people go
            through phases as they mature and sometimes get attached to simple
            worldviews, and contrarary to Rand I hope this world is not just for the
            intellectual and business elites, that would be too boring. BTW, Alan
            Greenspan is of Rand's most accomplished students.

            Regards,
            David
            www.testdriven.com

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Curtis Cooley" <curtis@...>
            Newsgroups: gmane.comp.programming.extreme-programming
            Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 7:24 AM
            Subject: Re: Atlas SWEBOKed


            > So, Edmund, what is it about the books that cause people to buy into
            > them so passionately? I've not read either book, but I do know Atlas is
            > a lengthy tome. I've heard good and bad but seldom in the middle. Your
            > review is thoughtful and absent of zealous emotion, so I'd really like
            > your opinion as to why anyone would adopt Atlas and Anne as almost a
            > religion and prophet?
            >
            > On Tue, 2003-07-01 at 17:52, Edmund Schweppe wrote:
            > > Over the last few days, I've read through a couple of lengthy tomes: Ayn
            > > Rand's _Atlas Shrugged_ and the SWECC's Guide to the SWEBOK, both for
            > > the first time. I noticed a number of surprising parallels:
            > >
            > > - I'd *heard* a lot about both books - and as it turned out, most of
            > > what I'd heard was inaccurate.
            > >
            > > - Both appear (to me, at least) rather dated. The SWEBOK Guide seemed to
            > > be several years out of date; _AS_ is several *decades* out of date.
            > >
            > > - Neither books' underlying philosophy is *completely* wrong; both
            > > books' underlying philosophy strikes me as *mostly* wrong. There is some
            > > amount of value in there, but it's buried pretty deep.
            > >
            > > - I paid no cash money either for my copy of the SWEBOK Guide
            > > (downloaded off swebok.org) or for the copy of _AS_ (borrowed from my
            > > local municipal library). In both cases, I got my money's worth.
            > >
            > > Still, the fifth Harry Potter book was much better. And I can re-read
            > > _Order of the Phoenix_ with a clear conscience, knowing that I've done
            > > my duty to myself by plowing through _Atlas SWEBOKed_.
            > --
            > ======================
            > Curtis R Cooley
            > RADSoft
            > Better software faster
            > curtis@...
            > ----------------------
            > Leela: Bender's flying too low! And he's upside-down!
            > Protestor: He must be talking on a cell-phone.
            >
            >
            > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
            >
            > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
            >
            > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
            >
            > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
            >
            >
            >
          • Michael Feathers
            P I don t know if I related the following anecdote here before, so here goes: P While raising a daughter in the late 1990s, we went to bookstores a lot. P
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
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              P> I don't know if I related the following anecdote here before, so here goes:
              P> While raising a daughter in the late 1990s, we went to bookstores a lot.
              P> Whenever we saw one of those insipid displays for HP I would point it out to
              P> Ashley, and ask her to repeat "just say no to Harry Potter". Eventually all
              P> I needed to do was point it out, and she'd say "just say no to Harry Potter"
              P> back to me.

              P> Then we went to see the first movie. Of course, Ashley spent the whole movie
              P> gripping the seat back in front of her.

              P> Afterwards she asked, "Why did you teach me to 'just say no to Harry
              P> Potter'?"

              P> "I was experimenting with your brain."

              Well, it worked in your case. I had my kids listen to Soft Machine,
              Magma, Henry Cow, Thinking Plague and Universe Zero in their early
              years. Now they like country music. <sigh>
            • Ron Jeffries
              ... When one day she pulls your brain out through your nose with an ancient Egyptian hooked instrument, you ll know why. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
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                On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 11:22:58 AM, Phlip wrote:

                > Afterwards she asked, "Why did you teach me to 'just say no to Harry
                > Potter'?"

                > "I was experimenting with your brain."

                When one day she pulls your brain out through your nose with an ancient
                Egyptian hooked instrument, you'll know why.

                Ron Jeffries
                www.XProgramming.com
                Wisdom begins when we discover the difference between
                "That makes no sense" and "I don't understand". --Mary Doria Russell
              • Phlip
                ... Maybe she l just dial up news:comp.object, and drone about how XP sucks. ;-) ... Susan Werner and Mary Chapin Carpenter, right? -- Phlip
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
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                  > > Afterwards she asked, "Why did you teach me to 'just say no to Harry
                  > > Potter'?"
                  >
                  > > "I was experimenting with your brain."
                  >
                  > When one day she pulls your brain out through your nose with an ancient
                  > Egyptian hooked instrument, you'll know why.

                  Maybe she'l just dial up news:comp.object, and drone about how XP sucks. ;-)

                  > Well, it worked in your case. I had my kids listen to Soft Machine,
                  > Magma, Henry Cow, Thinking Plague and Universe Zero in their early
                  > years. Now they like country music. <sigh>

                  Susan Werner and Mary Chapin Carpenter, right?

                  --
                  Phlip
                • Dale Emery
                  Hi Phlip, ... Interesting. I never thought of Susan Werner as country -- but I haven t heard any of her latest music. I started to transcribe her lovely
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
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                    Hi Phlip,

                    > > Now they like country music. <sigh>
                    >
                    > Susan Werner and Mary Chapin Carpenter, right?

                    Interesting. I never thought of Susan Werner as country -- but I
                    haven't heard any of her latest music. I started to transcribe
                    her lovely "Much at All" to guitar a few years ago, but never
                    finished.

                    Anyway, if you want country, google for "Bury Me (with my feet up
                    in the air)".

                    Dale

                    --
                    Dale Emery -- Consultant -- Resistance as a Resource
                    Web: http://www.dhemery.com
                    Weblog: http://www.dhemery.com/journal (Conversations with Dale)
                  • Edmund Schweppe
                    ... My opinion on _Atlas Shrugged_ is worth just about what you re paying for it :-) - now, that having been said ... _AS_ does preach an absolute good which
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
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                      Curtis Cooley wrote:
                      >
                      > So, Edmund, what is it about the books that cause people to buy into
                      > them so passionately? I've not read either book, but I do know Atlas is
                      > a lengthy tome. I've heard good and bad but seldom in the middle. Your
                      > review is thoughtful and absent of zealous emotion, so I'd really like
                      > your opinion as to why anyone would adopt Atlas and Anne as almost a
                      > religion and prophet?

                      My opinion on _Atlas Shrugged_ is worth just about what you're paying
                      for it :-) - now, that having been said ...

                      _AS_ does preach an "absolute good" which would appeal to a lot of
                      folks. It preaches the value of thinking. It demonstrates the failings
                      of Marxist economics (i.e., "from each according to his ability, to each
                      according to his need"). It decries stupid managerial tricks and the
                      promotion of incompetents to leadership positions.

                      On the other hand, it also (IMNSHO) suffers badly from the fallacy of
                      the excluded middle. Since a command economy is shown to be a Bad Thing,
                      the book suggests that the government should *never* interfere with
                      everyone's right to produce whatever they want, whenever they want.
                      (While I could produce more examples, I don't intend to; I'm not sure I
                      could maintain the thoughtful and zealotry-free tone.)

                      As for whether it's an interesting read? Well, I didn't find it too bad,
                      ignoring the content and the one seventy-plus-page expository lump that
                      is John Galt's big radio speech. On the other hand, the content
                      irritated me enough that I'll probably never read it again.

                      Obviously, not all XPers feel the same. My strong advice is, if you want
                      to know what's in the book, borrow it from the library, read it
                      yourself, and make your own judgements.

                      --
                      Edmund Schweppe -- schweppe@... -- http://schweppe.home.tiac.net
                      The opinions expressed herein are at best coincidentally related to
                      those of any past, present or future employer.
                    • Edmund Schweppe
                      ... I could have sworn that Phlip was her *daddy*, not her *mummy* ... -- Edmund Schweppe -- schweppe@ieee.org -- http://schweppe.home.tiac.net The opinions
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 2, 2003
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                        Ron Jeffries wrote:
                        > On Wednesday, July 2, 2003, at 11:22:58 AM, Phlip wrote:
                        > > Afterwards she asked, "Why did you teach me to 'just say no to Harry
                        > > Potter'?"
                        > > "I was experimenting with your brain."
                        > When one day she pulls your brain out through your nose with an ancient
                        > Egyptian hooked instrument, you'll know why.

                        I could have sworn that Phlip was her *daddy*, not her *mummy* ...

                        --
                        Edmund Schweppe -- schweppe@... -- http://schweppe.home.tiac.net
                        The opinions expressed herein are at best coincidentally related to
                        those of any past, present or future employer.
                      • Steve Ropa
                        Yesterday in the bookstore I ran a across a book Did Atlas Shrug? I was really interested in the title, but it turned out to be a statistical analysis of
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 3, 2003
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                          Yesterday in the bookstore I ran a across a book "Did Atlas Shrug?" I was
                          really interested in the title, but it turned out to be a statistical
                          analysis of the effect of taxation and monetary policy on small businesses
                          in America. Brilliant title, but the book was about as interesting as an
                          actuarial table.

                          > -----Original Message-----
                          > From: Edmund Schweppe [mailto:schweppe@...]
                          > Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2003 5:28 PM
                          > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                          > Subject: Re: [XP] Atlas SWEBOKed
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Curtis Cooley wrote:
                          > >
                          > > So, Edmund, what is it about the books that cause people to buy into
                          > > them so passionately? I've not read either book, but I do know Atlas is
                          > > a lengthy tome. I've heard good and bad but seldom in the middle. Your
                          > > review is thoughtful and absent of zealous emotion, so I'd really like
                          > > your opinion as to why anyone would adopt Atlas and Anne as almost a
                          > > religion and prophet?
                          >
                          > My opinion on _Atlas Shrugged_ is worth just about what you're paying
                          > for it :-) - now, that having been said ...
                          >
                          > _AS_ does preach an "absolute good" which would appeal to a lot of
                          > folks. It preaches the value of thinking. It demonstrates the failings
                          > of Marxist economics (i.e., "from each according to his ability, to each
                          > according to his need"). It decries stupid managerial tricks and the
                          > promotion of incompetents to leadership positions.
                          >
                          > On the other hand, it also (IMNSHO) suffers badly from the fallacy of
                          > the excluded middle. Since a command economy is shown to be a Bad Thing,
                          > the book suggests that the government should *never* interfere with
                          > everyone's right to produce whatever they want, whenever they want.
                          > (While I could produce more examples, I don't intend to; I'm not sure I
                          > could maintain the thoughtful and zealotry-free tone.)
                          >
                          > As for whether it's an interesting read? Well, I didn't find it too bad,
                          > ignoring the content and the one seventy-plus-page expository lump that
                          > is John Galt's big radio speech. On the other hand, the content
                          > irritated me enough that I'll probably never read it again.
                          >
                          > Obviously, not all XPers feel the same. My strong advice is, if you want
                          > to know what's in the book, borrow it from the library, read it
                          > yourself, and make your own judgements.
                          >
                          > --
                          > Edmund Schweppe -- schweppe@... -- http://schweppe.home.tiac.net
                          > The opinions expressed herein are at best coincidentally related to
                          > those of any past, present or future employer.
                          >
                          >
                          > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                          >
                          > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                          > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                          >
                          > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                          >
                          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                          >
                          >
                        • George Paci
                          ... That reminds me, Ron: do you only accept complete heads, or are brainless ones OK, too? --George George Paci Israel is
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 8, 2003
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                            Ron Jeffries wrote:
                            > When one day she pulls your brain out through your nose with an ancient
                            > Egyptian hooked instrument, you'll know why.

                            That reminds me, Ron: do you only accept complete heads, or
                            are brainless ones OK, too?

                            --George

                            George Paci <george@...>
                            Israel is slightly smaller than New Jersey. Moses in effect led the
                            tribes of Israel out of the District of Columbia, parted Chesapeake
                            Bay near Annapolis, and wandered for forty years in Delaware.
                            -- P.J. O'Rourke
                          • Ron Jeffries
                            ... In general it s best if the innards are removed, they keep better. However, in general, if I ask for someone s head I probably suspect the brain has
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jul 8, 2003
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                              On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 12:38:04 PM, George Paci wrote:

                              > Ron Jeffries wrote:
                              >> When one day she pulls your brain out through your nose with an ancient
                              >> Egyptian hooked instrument, you'll know why.

                              > That reminds me, Ron: do you only accept complete heads, or
                              > are brainless ones OK, too?

                              In general it's best if the innards are removed, they keep better. However,
                              in general, if I ask for someone's head I probably suspect the brain has
                              already been removed, if it was ever there ...

                              Ron Jeffries
                              www.XProgramming.com
                              You are closing your eyes to a situation you do not wish to acknowledge.
                              --Professor Harold Hill
                            • Anne & Larry Brunelle
                              ... If you ask for someone s head, is it that you really want the head, or merely its removal from its support system? And would likely discard it if
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jul 8, 2003
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                                Ron Jeffries wrote:
                                > On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 12:38:04 PM, George Paci wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >> Ron Jeffries wrote:
                                >>
                                >>> When one day she pulls your brain out through your nose with an
                                >>> ancient Egyptian hooked instrument, you'll know why.
                                >>
                                >
                                >> That reminds me, Ron: do you only accept complete heads, or are
                                >> brainless ones OK, too?
                                >
                                >
                                > In general it's best if the innards are removed, they keep better.
                                > However, in general, if I ask for someone's head I probably suspect
                                > the brain has already been removed, if it was ever there ...


                                If you ask for someone's head, is it that you really
                                want the head, or merely its removal from its support
                                system? And would likely discard it if delivered?
                                I mean, do they have decorative value or anything?
                              • Ron Jeffries
                                ... Here s a photo of the cabinet that s right across from me at this very moment. http://www.xprogramming.com/fam/pages/IMG_2782800.htm . And while we re at
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jul 8, 2003
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                                  On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 5:47:31 PM, Anne & Larry Brunelle wrote:

                                  > If you ask for someone's head, is it that you really
                                  > want the head, or merely its removal from its support
                                  > system? And would likely discard it if delivered?
                                  > I mean, do they have decorative value or anything?

                                  Here's a photo of the cabinet that's right across from me at this very
                                  moment. http://www.xprogramming.com/fam/pages/IMG_2782800.htm .

                                  And while we're at it, here's a little puzzle for the gang's entertainment:
                                  http://www.xprogramming.com/z4/pages/IMG_3460.htm .

                                  Ron Jeffries
                                  www.XProgramming.com
                                  You can observe a lot by watching. --Yogi Berra
                                • Colin Putney
                                  ... Very l00c, Ron, very l00c, indeed.
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jul 8, 2003
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                                    On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 02:59 PM, Ron Jeffries wrote:

                                    > And while we're at it, here's a little puzzle for the gang's
                                    > entertainment:
                                    > http://www.xprogramming.com/z4/pages/IMG_3460.htm .

                                    Very l00c, Ron, very l00c, indeed.
                                  • Anne & Larry Brunelle
                                    ... I only see one recognizably human skull. o Did you only ever ask for one head? Do people not always respond to your similar requests? What provokes you to
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jul 8, 2003
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                                      Ron Jeffries wrote:
                                      > On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 5:47:31 PM, Anne & Larry Brunelle wrote:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >> If you ask for someone's head, is it that you really want the head,
                                      >> or merely its removal from its support system? And would likely
                                      >> discard it if delivered? I mean, do they have decorative value or
                                      >> anything?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Here's a photo of the cabinet that's right across from me at this
                                      > very moment. http://www.xprogramming.com/fam/pages/IMG_2782800.htm .

                                      I only see one recognizably human skull.
                                      o Did you only ever ask for one head? Do people
                                      not always respond to your similar requests?
                                      What provokes you to such requests?
                                      o Or do you encounter non-human species preofessionally?
                                      (The one on the right looks kinda like a Scaran, maybe.)
                                      o And what species is the one in the middle - the
                                      transparent one?
                                    • Brad Appleton
                                      ... So do we get to guess which skull is the developer and which is the manager? ;-) ... !rac looc -- Brad Appleton www.bradapp.net
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jul 8, 2003
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                                        On Tue, Jul 08, 2003 at 05:59:30PM -0400, Ron Jeffries wrote:
                                        > Here's a photo of the cabinet that's right across from me at this very
                                        > moment. http://www.xprogramming.com/fam/pages/IMG_2782800.htm .

                                        So do we get to guess which "skull" is the developer and which is the manager? ;-)

                                        > And while we're at it, here's a little puzzle for the gang's entertainment:
                                        > http://www.xprogramming.com/z4/pages/IMG_3460.htm .

                                        !rac looc
                                        --
                                        Brad Appleton <brad@...> www.bradapp.net
                                        Software CM Patterns (www.scmpatterns.com)
                                        Effective Teamwork, Practical Integration
                                        "And miles to go before I sleep." -- Robert Frost
                                      • Ron Jeffries
                                        ... Rarely, in fact. I suppose it s a shipping problem. ... Various things. Militant invincible ignorance is a perennial favorite. ... It s a Pleistocene
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jul 8, 2003
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                                          On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 6:27:54 PM, Anne & Larry Brunelle wrote:

                                          > > Here's a photo of the cabinet that's right across from me at this
                                          > > very moment. http://www.xprogramming.com/fam/pages/IMG_2782800.htm .

                                          > I only see one recognizably human skull.
                                          > o Did you only ever ask for one head? Do people
                                          > not always respond to your similar requests?

                                          Rarely, in fact. I suppose it's a shipping problem.

                                          > What provokes you to such requests?

                                          Various things. Militant invincible ignorance is a perennial favorite.

                                          > o Or do you encounter non-human species preofessionally?
                                          > (The one on the right looks kinda like a Scaran, maybe.)

                                          It's a Pleistocene jaguar, a family pet whose skull we had cast after it
                                          passed away.

                                          > o And what species is the one in the middle - the
                                          > transparent one?

                                          It's how I know all this stuff.

                                          Ron Jeffries
                                          www.XProgramming.com
                                          Maybe it is like green shoes. Interesting, but not sought after. -- Dick Jeffries
                                        • Ed Schweppe
                                          ... So, Ron has a palantir. (This is bad. Fortunately, there is no Tolkien-ring connectivity from my house ...) -- Edmund Schweppe -- schweppe@ieee.org --
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jul 8, 2003
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                                            Ron Jeffries wrote:
                                            > On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 6:27:54 PM, Anne & Larry Brunelle wrote:
                                            > > o And what species is the one in the middle - the
                                            > > transparent one?
                                            > It's how I know all this stuff.

                                            So, Ron has a palantir.

                                            (This is bad. Fortunately, there is no Tolkien-ring connectivity from
                                            my house ...)

                                            --
                                            Edmund Schweppe -- schweppe@... -- http://schweppe.home.tiac.net
                                            The opinions expressed herein are at best coincidentally related to
                                            those of any past, present or future employer.
                                          • George Dinwiddie
                                            ... I ve emailed you quite a few heads from mailing list spammers. Haven t you received them? Perhaps it s the email filters. I try to filter out spamheads,
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jul 9, 2003
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                                              Ron Jeffries wrote:
                                              > On Tuesday, July 8, 2003, at 6:27:54 PM, Anne & Larry Brunelle wrote:
                                              >
                                              >>I only see one recognizably human skull.
                                              >>o Did you only ever ask for one head? Do people
                                              >> not always respond to your similar requests?
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Rarely, in fact. I suppose it's a shipping problem.

                                              I've emailed you quite a few heads from mailing list spammers. Haven't
                                              you received them? Perhaps it's the email filters. I try to filter out
                                              spamheads, myself.

                                              - George

                                              --
                                              -------------------------
                                              George Dinwiddie
                                              gdinwiddie@...
                                              -------------------------
                                            • Anne & Larry Brunelle
                                              Ron Jeffries wrote: [clip] ... [clip] A relic of great antiquity, then, and your pet. You must be older than you look. :^) So whose is (was) the human skull?
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jul 9, 2003
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                                                Ron Jeffries wrote:
                                                [clip]
                                                > It's a Pleistocene jaguar, a family pet whose skull we
                                                > had cast after it passed away.
                                                [clip]

                                                A relic of great antiquity, then, and your pet. You
                                                must be older than you look. :^)

                                                So whose is (was) the human skull? Anyone we might
                                                have heard of?
                                              • Ron Jeffries
                                                ... No one we ll be hearing from any more ... Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Only the hand that erases can write the true thing. -- Meister Eckhart
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Jul 10, 2003
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                                                  On Thursday, July 10, 2003, at 12:53:43 AM, Anne & Larry Brunelle wrote:

                                                  > Ron Jeffries wrote:
                                                  > [clip]
                                                  > > It's a Pleistocene jaguar, a family pet whose skull we
                                                  > > had cast after it passed away.
                                                  > [clip]

                                                  > A relic of great antiquity, then, and your pet. You
                                                  > must be older than you look. :^)

                                                  > So whose is (was) the human skull? Anyone we might
                                                  > have heard of?

                                                  No one we'll be hearing from any more ...

                                                  Ron Jeffries
                                                  www.XProgramming.com
                                                  Only the hand that erases can write the true thing. -- Meister Eckhart
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