Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Womb-man (was Motivation)

Expand Messages
  • Eric Heikkila
    ====================================================== Message: 23 Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:16:21 -0400 (Eastern Daylight Time) From: Brian Christopher
    Message 1 of 25 , May 30, 2003
      ======================================================
      Message: 23
      Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:16:21 -0400 (Eastern
      Daylight Time)
      From: Brian Christopher Robinson
      <brian.c.robinson@...>
      Subject: Re: Motivation

      On Fri, 30 May 2003, Ron Jeffries wrote:

      > What are they called now? Differently-gendered
      undergrads?

      Women.





      Message: 25
      Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 14:38:03 -0400
      From: Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@...>
      Subject: Re: Motivation

      On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 2:16:21 PM, Brian
      Christopher Robinson
      wrote:

      > On Fri, 30 May 2003, Ron Jeffries wrote:

      >> What are they called now? Differently-gendered
      undergrads?

      > Women.

      Oh, right. We used to call them that back in
      Mesopotamia, Sumeria,
      someplace like that. Doesn't the term come from
      "womb-man"? Yeah, I'm
      sure
      it does. Wonderful creatures. Magical. Far better than
      the original
      man-man, in my opinion.

      Whatever you call 'em, they improve my code. I have
      metrics on it.
      Graphs,
      curves. A small database. Couple of spreadsheets.
      Working on a paper
      for
      IEEE. Sure to be a breakthrough.

      Speaking of breakthrough reminds me. Years ago, Tad
      Guzie was a member
      of
      the Society of Jesus, at Creighton Prep in Omaha. He
      wrote a very
      highly
      valued book, which received many reviews calling it
      wonderful, a
      breakthrough, a truly seminal contribution. The house
      superior met with
      him
      a bit later and congratulated him on the book, saying
      "Hmm, a 'seminal
      breakthrough'. It's not often that a member of our
      Order achieves one
      of
      those."

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      Knowledge must come through action;
      you can have no test which is not fanciful, save by
      trial. --
      Sophocles
      ======================================================

      HAHAHAHAHAHA, oh my, Ron, that one had me rolling.

      Apparently, someone needs to shut the P.C. light off.
      :p

      Or at least turn the humor sign on (danger, humor
      ahead)! ;) hehe

      -Eric


      __________________________________
      Do you Yahoo!?
      Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
      http://calendar.yahoo.com
    • Brian Christopher Robinson
      ... Is just the word coed funny? Maybe it was in 1978, but then I was in diapers then, more likely to be amused by drawing on the walls with my own feces than
      Message 2 of 25 , May 30, 2003
        On Fri, 30 May 2003, Eric Heikkila wrote:

        > HAHAHAHAHAHA, oh my, Ron, that one had me rolling.
        >
        > Apparently, someone needs to shut the P.C. light off.
        > :p
        >
        > Or at least turn the humor sign on (danger, humor
        > ahead)! ;) hehe

        Is just the word coed funny? Maybe it was in 1978, but then I was in
        diapers then, more likely to be amused by drawing on the walls with my
        own feces than the word coed. At this point in time, it's just expected
        that women will be educated at the same colleges as men. I'm as sexist
        as anyone; I wouldn't have my college any other way than filled with
        attractive, programming enhancing women.
      • Ron Jeffries
        ... I don t know, it never seemed funny to me, but I am a very serious person. I believe there may still be men s schools, women s schools, and schools that
        Message 3 of 25 , May 30, 2003
          On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 3:14:55 PM, Brian Christopher Robinson wrote:

          > Is just the word coed funny?

          I don't know, it never seemed funny to me, but I am a very serious person.
          I believe there may still be men's schools, women's schools, and schools
          that accept both men and women. I believe that the latter ones used to be
          called "coeducational". Now, I presume, they are called something else
          entirely, as there are only 78,000 Google hits on "coeducational". Perhaps
          they are called "Educational Institution where Women and Men Matriculate
          Together".

          38,000 hits on "college for women", and 2800 on "college for men". This
          ratio must be indicative of something, but I'm not sure just what.

          > Maybe it was in 1978, but then I was in
          > diapers then, more likely to be amused by drawing on the walls with my
          > own feces than the word coed.

          If all are as grateful as I am for your sharing this, the walls are
          literally smeared with gratitude.

          > At this point in time, it's just expected
          > that women will be educated at the same colleges as men.

          Actually, it was pretty much the done thing even um quite some years ago.

          > I'm as sexist
          > as anyone; I wouldn't have my college any other way than filled with
          > attractive, programming enhancing women.

          Yes. Or anyplace else I go, for that matter. I think they are in the top
          two genders. I feel this way in part because women seem often to like me
          better than men do. I suppose this is because women, unlike men, do not
          feel personally threatened by an incredibly intelligent, well-spoken,
          awesomely good-looking, yet charmingly modest man. I'm pretty sure that's
          it.

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          Curiosity is more powerful than skepticism.
        • Alex Pukinskis
          ... I think that universities that are not coeducational have become rare enough that referring to a university as coeducational is no longer particularly
          Message 4 of 25 , May 30, 2003
            On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 01:32 PM, Ron Jeffries wrote:

            > On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 3:14:55 PM, Brian Christopher Robinson
            > wrote:
            >
            >> Is just the word coed funny?
            >
            > I don't know, it never seemed funny to me, but I am a very serious
            > person.
            > I believe there may still be men's schools, women's schools, and
            > schools
            > that accept both men and women. I believe that the latter ones used to
            > be
            > called "coeducational". Now, I presume, they are called something else
            > entirely, as there are only 78,000 Google hits on "coeducational".
            > Perhaps
            > they are called "Educational Institution where Women and Men
            > Matriculate
            > Together".

            I think that universities that are not coeducational have become rare
            enough that referring to a university as "coeducational" is no longer
            particularly useful. I can't think of any colleges in the U.S. that
            are only open to men anymore, and Smith is the only women's college
            that I can think of right now (although I know there are more).

            -Alex
          • amyatwebkitchen
            Yikes, are there no women on this list, or in your development teams? I m new to this list, and am quickly feeling unwelcome. Didn t know it was a men s club.
            Message 5 of 25 , May 30, 2003
              Yikes, are there no women on this list, or in your development
              teams? I'm new to this list, and am quickly feeling unwelcome.
              Didn't know it was a men's club.

              Amy
            • Phlip
              ... Says you. I was going to riposte with a link to a veerry
              Message 6 of 25 , May 30, 2003
                > Yikes, are there no women on this list, or in your development
                > teams? I'm new to this list, and am quickly feeling unwelcome.
                > Didn't know it was a men's club.

                Says you. I was going to riposte with a link to a >veerry< erudite
                deconstruction (in cartoon form, drawn before I read it) of the story of
                Enkidu and the Hierodule of Babylon. But the Web site it's on is down,
                because its owner is having woman trouble these days.

                Geeze good free help is hard to find.

                (But you'l be glad to know I cooked Cali Maki for my females for dinner last
                night, and they only beat me up a little for it...)

                --
                Phlip
              • George Dinwiddie
                Please don t feel unwelcome. It s not a men s club. But please do enlighten me. What in this discussion made you feel unwelcome? - George ... -- ... George
                Message 7 of 25 , May 30, 2003
                  Please don't feel unwelcome. It's not a men's club.

                  But please do enlighten me. What in this "discussion" made you feel
                  unwelcome?

                  - George

                  amyatwebkitchen wrote:
                  > Yikes, are there no women on this list, or in your development
                  > teams? I'm new to this list, and am quickly feeling unwelcome.
                  > Didn't know it was a men's club.

                  --
                  -------------------------
                  George Dinwiddie
                  agile programmer for hire
                  Baltimore/Washington area
                  gdinwiddie@...
                  -------------------------
                • amyatwebkitchen
                  Well... comments like I m as sexist as anyone , the repeated use of the words they and them (I m a programmer, aren t I a part of us here?), and the
                  Message 8 of 25 , May 30, 2003
                    Well... comments like "I'm as sexist as anyone", the repeated use of
                    the words "they" and "them" (I'm a programmer, aren't I a part
                    of "us" here?), and the general confusion about what to call us non-
                    male persons, to name a few.

                    It's also rather insulting that the folks here think women can help
                    improve code by wandering around looking pretty, rather than by
                    pulling up a chair and pointing out a cleaner way to do something.
                    I'm not sure that my appearance has ever improved my coworkers' code,
                    but certainly my programming skills have.

                    I know that our field is very male dominated, but women programmers
                    aren't non-existent. At every company I've worked for there has been
                    at least one other woman programmer. But I've never worked anywhere
                    that was doing XP. Is the male dominated nature of software
                    development another aspect that is turned up to extreme levels in
                    XP? :)

                    Amy

                    --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, George Dinwiddie
                    <programminglists@a...> wrote:
                    > Please don't feel unwelcome. It's not a men's club.
                    >
                    > But please do enlighten me. What in this "discussion" made you
                    feel
                    > unwelcome?
                    >
                    > - George
                    >
                  • Phlip
                    ... Woah. You re right. I have certainly never seen Ron rub anyone the wrong way before like this. It must be just a local aberration, caused by... never mind.
                    Message 9 of 25 , May 30, 2003
                      amyatwebkitchen wrote:


                      > Well... comments like "I'm as sexist as anyone", the repeated use of
                      > the words "they" and "them" (I'm a programmer, aren't I a part
                      > of "us" here?), and the general confusion about what to call us non-
                      > male persons, to name a few.

                      Woah. You're right. I have certainly never seen Ron rub anyone the wrong way
                      before like this. It must be just a local aberration, caused by... never
                      mind.

                      > It's also rather insulting that the folks here think women can help
                      > improve code by wandering around looking pretty, rather than by
                      > pulling up a chair and pointing out a cleaner way to do something.
                      > I'm not sure that my appearance has ever improved my coworkers' code,
                      > but certainly my programming skills have.

                      Yeah, been there, done that.

                      If I remember correctly, playing the helpless mentally-challenged male
                      helped them think they were leading.

                      > I know that our field is very male dominated, but women programmers
                      > aren't non-existent. At every company I've worked for there has been
                      > at least one other woman programmer. But I've never worked anywhere
                      > that was doing XP. Is the male dominated nature of software
                      > development another aspect that is turned up to extreme levels in
                      > XP? :)

                      I prefer the theory that women leave to men the dirty and dangerous jobs
                      that can cause permanent brain damage.

                      8-)

                      --
                      Phlip
                      http://www.greencheese.org/HatTrick
                      -- Randroids teased. $4.95 each. Group rates avail. --
                    • Keith Ray
                      ... Horse Feathers Wagstaff: Go to college! Meet all the beautiful girls! Get yourself a coed. Baravelli: Hah, I got a coed! Last week, for eighteen
                      Message 10 of 25 , May 30, 2003
                        On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 12:14 PM, Brian Christopher Robinson wrote:

                        > On Fri, 30 May 2003, Eric Heikkila wrote:
                        >
                        >> HAHAHAHAHAHA, oh my, Ron, that one had me rolling.
                        >>
                        >> Apparently, someone needs to shut the P.C. light off.
                        >> :p
                        >>
                        >> Or at least turn the humor sign on (danger, humor
                        >> ahead)! ;) hehe
                        >
                        > Is just the word coed funny? Maybe it was in 1978, but then I was in
                        > diapers then, more likely to be amused by drawing on the walls with my
                        > own feces than the word coed. At this point in time, it's just
                        > expected
                        > that women will be educated at the same colleges as men. I'm as sexist
                        > as anyone; I wouldn't have my college any other way than filled with
                        > attractive, programming enhancing women.

                        Horse Feathers

                        Wagstaff: "Go to college! Meet all the beautiful girls! Get yourself a
                        coed."

                        Baravelli: "Hah, I got a coed! Last week, for eighteen dollars, I got a
                        coed with two pair of pants."

                        --
                        C. Keith Ray
                        <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/index.html>
                        <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/xpminifaq.html>
                        <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume.html>
                      • Ron Jeffries
                        ... No doubt I started it all with my remark about the pleasant presence of coeds at the Michigan Union, followed by people informing me that the term was
                        Message 11 of 25 , May 30, 2003
                          On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 9:28:02 PM, amyatwebkitchen wrote:

                          > Well... comments like "I'm as sexist as anyone", the repeated use of
                          > the words "they" and "them" (I'm a programmer, aren't I a part
                          > of "us" here?), and the general confusion about what to call us non-
                          > male persons, to name a few.

                          No doubt I started it all with my remark about the pleasant presence of
                          "coeds" at the Michigan Union, followed by people informing me that the
                          term was already losing currency when I was in college, which was probably
                          before you were born.

                          This was followed by a series of riffs which some people found witty and
                          amusing.

                          > It's also rather insulting that the folks here think women can help
                          > improve code by wandering around looking pretty,

                          I will not apologize for finding women attractive, though if you sincerely
                          believe that I should, I would be quite interested in hearing why. Frankly,
                          with rare exceptions, I am much more inclined to associate with women than
                          with men. I rarely have, or even attempt, sex with either.

                          And in fact I don't think it should be insulting that being "pretty" could
                          help improve things-- I think it's quite an important topic. I find that a
                          pleasant, attractive environment really does contribute to the quality of
                          the work done in that environment. To be surrounded with youthful,
                          exuberant, vibrant young people helps keep one's thought processes alive.
                          And if people are pleasant to look upon, unlike yours truly, it should
                          neither surprise us, nor offend us, to find that those who gaze upon them
                          find their spirits uplifted and their energy restored.

                          > rather than by
                          > pulling up a chair and pointing out a cleaner way to do something.

                          No one said "rather", Amy, until now, nor was it implied. To date, neither
                          women nor men have walked up to our table in the Union to help us. I would
                          expect that the average woman programmer would be more inclined to approach
                          us than the average man programmer. (Of course, there are more men in the
                          business, but I cannot at this time take responsibility for that.)

                          As you may know, one of my coauthors on Extreme Programming Installed is
                          named Ann Anderson. I have it on good authority that Ann is a woman. Ann
                          was on the original XP project, as was Margaret Fronczak, who, I am told,
                          is also a woman. And the lead XP customer, Marie, who therefore controlled
                          the whole project, is also reportedly a woman, as was one of the two other
                          members of the customer team. Marie was probably the best customer that an
                          XP project has ever had, and I believe that both Kent and I were misled, in
                          early days, into thinking that being the customer was easy, because she
                          made it look easy for quite a long time.

                          > I'm not sure that my appearance has ever improved my coworkers' code,

                          I wouldn't know about this ...

                          > but certainly my programming skills have.

                          but this would not surprise me. Most of the women I have known and worked
                          with in our business were quite competent and quite inclined to be helpful.
                          I have encountered a few whose ability to contribute was hampered by their
                          own uncertainties, but this occurs in men as well, although in somewhat
                          different manifestations.

                          In any case, appearance vs technical skill wasn't really the topic that I
                          raised, and I'm not sure why one might assume that it was. Still, I admit
                          that I would prefer to see Cameron Diaz than Tom Cruise. YMMV.

                          XP is a team effort, a social enterprise. Women, it seems to me, have a
                          different median style of interacting in groups, and quite commonly have an
                          effect on the group's style of interaction which is disproportionate to
                          their numbers on the project. In almost every case I have observed, the
                          impact of women on the team's interaction has been positive.

                          > I know that our field is very male dominated, but women programmers
                          > aren't non-existent. At every company I've worked for there has been
                          > at least one other woman programmer. But I've never worked anywhere
                          > that was doing XP. Is the male dominated nature of software
                          > development another aspect that is turned up to extreme levels in
                          > XP? :)

                          Two out of 14 programmers on the first XP project; two out of three
                          customers; one of three authors on XP Installed. Not a bad record for the
                          beginning of XP.

                          Still, there aren't as many women in XP as there might be. No doubt it's
                          Chet's fault.

                          So chip in. Change the odds.

                          Ron Jeffries
                          www.XProgramming.com
                          Learn the principle, abide by the principle, and dissolve the principle.
                          -- Bruce Lee
                        • Keith Ray
                          ... There are 4045 members of this mailing list. At least four of them are women. I m pretty sure it s more than that. ... C. Keith Ray
                          Message 12 of 25 , May 30, 2003
                            On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 02:30 PM, amyatwebkitchen wrote:

                            > Yikes, are there no women on this list, or in your development
                            > teams? I'm new to this list, and am quickly feeling unwelcome.
                            > Didn't know it was a men's club.

                            There are 4045 members of this mailing list. At least four of them are
                            women. I'm pretty sure it's more than that.

                            ----
                            C. Keith Ray
                            <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/blog/index.html>
                            <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/xpminifaq.html>
                            <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume.html>
                          • Brian Christopher Robinson
                            ... Hey, I m the sexist as anyone person. If you want to feel unwelcome from me, that s fine. But neither my beliefs nor my comments represent the other
                            Message 13 of 25 , May 31, 2003
                              On Sat, 31 May 2003, amyatwebkitchen wrote:

                              > Well... comments like "I'm as sexist as anyone",

                              Hey, I'm the "sexist as anyone" person. If you want to feel unwelcome
                              from me, that's fine. But neither my beliefs nor my comments represent
                              the other thousands of people on this list.

                              > It's also rather insulting that the folks here think women can help
                              > improve code by wandering around looking pretty, rather than by
                              > pulling up a chair and pointing out a cleaner way to do something.
                              > I'm not sure that my appearance has ever improved my coworkers' code,
                              > but certainly my programming skills have.

                              Feel free to feel unwelcome due to this but remember my comment above:

                              Ron's original post was talking about attractive women walking around in
                              a book store or mall, women who were not coworkers and probably not
                              programmers. It's a fact that men look at women when they go to public
                              places. It gives them a little joy and perhaps a little more enthusiasm
                              for programming.

                              I work with women who I rationally know are attractive, but I don't let
                              that affect my behavior when I am at work. However, if I was
                              programming on my own time, I would have no problem considering a woman
                              I had no professional relationship with attractive and finding pleasure
                              in that.
                            • Laurent La Rizza
                              Well... comments like I m as sexist as anyone , the repeated use of the words they and them (I m a programmer, aren t I a part of us here?), and
                              Message 14 of 25 , Jun 2, 2003
                                <QUOTE>
                                Well... comments like "I'm as sexist as anyone", the repeated use of
                                the words "they" and "them" (I'm a programmer, aren't I a part
                                of "us" here?), and the general confusion about what to call us non-
                                male persons, to name a few.
                                </QUOTE>

                                Well, this road is slippery. I don't like to walk on it myself.
                                Generalizations (uncontextualization in this case) are useful and
                                dangerous, that's very well known. I have fought arguments like this one a
                                couple of times recently. In France, there are some demonstrations run by
                                teachers because they don't want to lose their advantages (a law is getting
                                voted for a modification of the retirement policy for government workers),
                                and in talks I've had with some of my colleagues, I've heard sentences like
                                "French people want to earn money without working" (Uncontextualized
                                sentence). I felt a little upset because I'm a "French people" and when I
                                fight about these sentences, I get responses like "Well, not all French
                                people, you know. Why do you feel insulted anyway? Are you feeling
                                concerned?" Then I understood it would be too tiresome to try to withe
                                fight because this <BTW invalid> argument was recurrent. Better not try to
                                fight generalities but accept them as brain shortcuts of people not trying
                                to express their ideas accurately <when it comes to things other than XP>
                                Men always talk to men about women, didn't you know? ;o) (Beware the
                                generality implied by the presence of "always" and the absence of "some"
                                :oP)

                                <QUOTE>
                                It's also rather insulting that the folks here think women can help
                                improve code by wandering around looking pretty, rather than by
                                pulling up a chair and pointing out a cleaner way to do something.
                                </QUOTE>

                                Well, I'm sure most women have on their character sheet:
                                * Pulling out chairs +4
                                * Pointing out cleaner ways +12

                                Anyway, I won't waste my money hiring a babe to walk around the holy coding
                                room. I like watching babes and coding, but when I'm faced with both at the
                                same time, it's too bad for the babe. (to geek or not to geek...) :o)

                                <QUOTE>
                                I'm not sure that my appearance has ever improved my coworkers' code,
                                but certainly my programming skills have.
                                </QUOTE>

                                Anyway, how would you know? My co-workers are mostly women, some are
                                pretty, some are less (none are ugly), some of them have a desire of
                                excellence in their work, some others don't, but every time I look at any
                                of them, I don't know why but I fell kind of empowered. I strongly believe
                                that were there only men in my team, coffee-break talks and verbal
                                exchanges during coding would be a little more gore than they are now.
                                (Opinion based on previous experiences. No generalization implied. Just my
                                spider sense.) That's a good way to keep focused.

                                <QUOTE>
                                I know that our field is very male dominated, but women programmers
                                aren't non-existent. At every company I've worked for there has been
                                at least one other woman programmer. But I've never worked anywhere
                                that was doing XP. Is the male dominated nature of software
                                development another aspect that is turned up to extreme levels in
                                XP? :)
                                </QUOTE>

                                Depends... maybe if XP-women are afraid of being surrounded by males? ;o)

                                <QUOTE>
                                Amy
                                </QUOTE>

                                Laurent,
                                De belles idées pour un monde plus grand...

                                PS: cool down. If you have ideas to share, please contribute :o)
                              • Phlip
                                ... Guys, I might be reading the Members list wrong, but I think Amy quietly un-subbed before Ron s apologia ever got to her. Someone with extreme tact (or
                                Message 15 of 25 , Jun 2, 2003
                                  > <QUOTE>
                                  > Well... comments like "I'm as sexist as anyone", the repeated use of
                                  > the words "they" and "them" (I'm a programmer, aren't I a part
                                  > of "us" here?), and the general confusion about what to call us non-
                                  > male persons, to name a few.
                                  > </QUOTE>

                                  Guys, I might be reading the Members list wrong, but I think Amy quietly
                                  un-subbed before Ron's apologia ever got to her.

                                  Someone with extreme tact (or maybe just the prerequisite two X chromosomes)
                                  might want to send her a private e-mail to invite her back.

                                  --
                                  Phlip
                                  http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?TestFirstUserInterfaces
                                • fishlike_fly
                                  ... of ... non- ... quietly ... chromosomes) ... It s your guy s beating--you go take it. :-) I ve already had my hands full cleaning up yer legacy sh8.
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Jun 2, 2003
                                    --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "Phlip" <plumlee@s...>
                                    wrote:
                                    > > <QUOTE>
                                    > > Well... comments like "I'm as sexist as anyone", the repeated use
                                    of
                                    > > the words "they" and "them" (I'm a programmer, aren't I a part
                                    > > of "us" here?), and the general confusion about what to call us
                                    non-
                                    > > male persons, to name a few.
                                    > > </QUOTE>
                                    >
                                    > Guys, I might be reading the Members list wrong, but I think Amy
                                    quietly
                                    > un-subbed before Ron's apologia ever got to her.
                                    >
                                    > Someone with extreme tact (or maybe just the prerequisite two X
                                    chromosomes)
                                    > might want to send her a private e-mail to invite her back.
                                    >

                                    It's your guy's beating--you go take it. :-) I've already had my
                                    hands full cleaning up yer legacy sh8. Talk about dirty job--who's
                                    friggin dirty job am I doin? Friggin Disney. Friggin In Search Of
                                    Whale or whatever... stupid friggin story.

                                    I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah. Any one know what I'm
                                    talkin about?
                                  • Ron Jeffries
                                    ... Not even a guess. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Discontinue reading if rash, irritation, redness, or swelling develops. Especially irritation.
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Jun 2, 2003
                                      On Monday, June 2, 2003, at 4:53:08 PM, fishlike_fly wrote:

                                      > It's your guy's beating--you go take it. :-) I've already had my
                                      > hands full cleaning up yer legacy sh8. Talk about dirty job--who's
                                      > friggin dirty job am I doin? Friggin Disney. Friggin In Search Of
                                      > Whale or whatever... stupid friggin story.

                                      > I'm a fool to do your dirty work, oh yeah. Any one know what I'm
                                      > talkin about?

                                      Not even a guess.

                                      Ron Jeffries
                                      www.XProgramming.com
                                      Discontinue reading if rash, irritation, redness, or swelling develops.
                                      Especially irritation.
                                    • Kay A. Pentecost
                                      Hi, Keith, Amy, Everybody, ... And at least one-quarter of those four women is gorgeous, intelligent, a great programmer, and *loves* this list and the guys
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Jun 2, 2003
                                        Hi, Keith, Amy, Everybody,

                                        > -----Original Message-----
                                        > From: Keith Ray [mailto:keithray@...]
                                        > Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 10:26 PM
                                        > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                        > Subject: Re: OT Re: [XP] Re: Womb-man (was Motivation)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 02:30 PM, amyatwebkitchen wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Yikes, are there no women on this list, or in your development
                                        > > teams? I'm new to this list, and am quickly feeling unwelcome.
                                        > > Didn't know it was a men's club.
                                        >
                                        > There are 4045 members of this mailing list. At least four of them are
                                        > women. I'm pretty sure it's more than that.

                                        And at least one-quarter of those four women is gorgeous, intelligent, a
                                        great programmer, and *loves* this list and the guys (male and female) on
                                        it.

                                        And then there's me, who's indescribable.

                                        Hey, incidentally, I had a page on Ward's Wiki that said I was
                                        undescribable, and someone took it off. Bummer. And that was a totally
                                        true statement.

                                        I'm not going to take this standing up. I'm going to put that back and say
                                        that even if I am indescribable, I'm learning Smalltalk (Yay!!) and loving
                                        it.

                                        <grin>

                                        Kay
                                      • Phlip
                                        ... That was me (blushing, eyelashes batting). The default empty page says like Describe WikiThing here... , so all I could do was respond to that. But then
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Jun 2, 2003
                                          Kay A. Pentecost wrote:

                                          > Hey, incidentally, I had a page on Ward's Wiki that said I was
                                          > undescribable, and someone took it off. Bummer. And that was a totally
                                          > true statement.

                                          That was me (blushing, eyelashes batting).

                                          The default empty page says like "Describe WikiThing here...", so all I
                                          could do was respond to that.

                                          But then Ward added A> delete, and B> a short page detector. There are those
                                          who delete short pages regardless of obvious merit.

                                          But I had to give you a page because I quoted you and created an empty link
                                          ? thing.

                                          --
                                          The drooling ranting XP zealot
                                        • Kay A. Pentecost
                                          Hi, Phlip, ... I guessed as much. Who else would be so totally perceptive and accurate?? And I was so flattered. ... Yeah. ... Pooh, I say,
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Jun 2, 2003
                                            Hi, Phlip,

                                            > -----Original Message-----
                                            > From: Phlip [mailto:plumlee@...]
                                            > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 9:44 PM
                                            > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                            > Subject: Re: OT Re: [XP] Re: Womb-man (was Motivation)
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > Kay A. Pentecost wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > Hey, incidentally, I had a page on Ward's Wiki that said I was
                                            > > undescribable, and someone took it off. Bummer. And that was a totally
                                            > > true statement.
                                            >
                                            > That was me (blushing, eyelashes batting).

                                            I guessed as much. Who else would be so totally perceptive and accurate??
                                            <grin>

                                            And I was <blush> so flattered.

                                            >
                                            > The default empty page says like "Describe WikiThing here...", so all I
                                            > could do was respond to that.

                                            Yeah.

                                            >
                                            > But then Ward added A> delete, and B> a short page detector.
                                            > There are those
                                            > who delete short pages regardless of obvious merit.

                                            Pooh, I say, Pooh on them.

                                            >
                                            > But I had to give you a page because I quoted you and created an
                                            > empty link
                                            > ? thing.

                                            Well, I'm going to put it back!! And stuff about what I am doing now, since
                                            I'm considering myself XP's greatest beginner!!
                                            >
                                            > --
                                            > The drooling ranting XP zealot

                                            It's a great skill to be able to drool and rant at the same time!! Spitting
                                            and ranting, now that's common --

                                            Your fan,

                                            Kay

                                            XP mistress and child protegee.....and who's looking for work... (learning
                                            Java and Smalltalk and pretty good in VB...)
                                          • Dave Rooney
                                            ... LOL!!! Kay, you just don t spend enough time around here anymore!! :) Dave Rooney Mayford Technologies http://www.mayford.ca ... From: Kay A. Pentecost
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Jun 3, 2003
                                              > XP mistress and child protegee.

                                              LOL!!! Kay, you just don't spend enough time around here anymore!! :)

                                              Dave Rooney
                                              Mayford Technologies
                                              http://www.mayford.ca


                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: Kay A. Pentecost [mailto:tranzpupy@...]
                                              Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 10:08 PM
                                              To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: RE: OT Re: [XP] Re: Womb-man (was Motivation)


                                              Hi, Phlip,

                                              > -----Original Message-----
                                              > From: Phlip [mailto:plumlee@...]
                                              > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 9:44 PM
                                              > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                              > Subject: Re: OT Re: [XP] Re: Womb-man (was Motivation)
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Kay A. Pentecost wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > Hey, incidentally, I had a page on Ward's Wiki that said I was
                                              > > undescribable, and someone took it off. Bummer. And that was a totally
                                              > > true statement.
                                              >
                                              > That was me (blushing, eyelashes batting).

                                              I guessed as much. Who else would be so totally perceptive and accurate??
                                              <grin>

                                              And I was <blush> so flattered.

                                              >
                                              > The default empty page says like "Describe WikiThing here...", so all I
                                              > could do was respond to that.

                                              Yeah.

                                              >
                                              > But then Ward added A> delete, and B> a short page detector.
                                              > There are those
                                              > who delete short pages regardless of obvious merit.

                                              Pooh, I say, Pooh on them.

                                              >
                                              > But I had to give you a page because I quoted you and created an
                                              > empty link
                                              > ? thing.

                                              Well, I'm going to put it back!! And stuff about what I am doing now, since
                                              I'm considering myself XP's greatest beginner!!
                                              >
                                              > --
                                              > The drooling ranting XP zealot

                                              It's a great skill to be able to drool and rant at the same time!! Spitting
                                              and ranting, now that's common --

                                              Your fan,

                                              Kay

                                              XP mistress and child protegee.....and who's looking for work... (learning
                                              Java and Smalltalk and pretty good in VB...)




                                              To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...

                                              To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...

                                              ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com

                                              Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                            • Kay A. Pentecost
                                              Hi, Dave, Everyone! ... Oh, thanks!! I m pretty busy... (not with paid work, yet, hint hint if anyone needs an experienced VB programmer who loves XP... or a
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Jun 3, 2003
                                                Hi, Dave, Everyone!

                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                > From: Dave Rooney [mailto:Dave.Rooney@...]
                                                > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 9:05 AM
                                                > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                                > Subject: RE: OT Re: [XP] Re: Womb-man (was Motivation)
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > > XP mistress and child protegee.
                                                >
                                                > LOL!!! Kay, you just don't spend enough time around here anymore!! :)

                                                Oh, thanks!!

                                                I'm pretty busy... (not with paid work, yet, hint hint if anyone needs an
                                                experienced VB programmer who loves XP... or a novice Java or Smalltalk
                                                programmer who's willing to learn and wants to do XP hint hint...)

                                                Anyhow, I'm pretty busy, and spending a lot of time on learning Smalltalk...
                                                and incidentally, it's your countryman Dave Astels who's teaching me TDD and
                                                Smalltalk.

                                                Smalltalk Rocks! So does TDD!!

                                                Kay
                                                >
                                              • Dave Rooney
                                                ... From: Kay A. Pentecost [mailto:tranzpupy@ix.netcom.com] Sent: June 3, 2003 10:25 PM To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: OT Re: [XP] Re:
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Jun 3, 2003
                                                  -----Original Message-----
                                                  From: Kay A. Pentecost [mailto:tranzpupy@...]
                                                  Sent: June 3, 2003 10:25 PM
                                                  To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: RE: OT Re: [XP] Re: Womb-man (was Motivation)

                                                  [snip]

                                                  Smalltalk Rocks!

                                                  [snip]

                                                  Yeah, I'll bet Dave put you up to that too! :)

                                                  Dave Rooney
                                                  Mayford Technologies
                                                  http://www.mayford.ca
                                                • Kay A. Pentecost
                                                  Hi, Dave, ... Well you Canadians are very clever!! Kay
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Jun 3, 2003
                                                    Hi, Dave,

                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > From: Dave Rooney [mailto:dave.rooney@...]
                                                    > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2003 11:28 PM
                                                    > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: RE: OT Re: [XP] Re: Womb-man (was Motivation)
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > -----Original Message-----
                                                    > From: Kay A. Pentecost [mailto:tranzpupy@...]
                                                    > Sent: June 3, 2003 10:25 PM
                                                    > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                                    > Subject: RE: OT Re: [XP] Re: Womb-man (was Motivation)
                                                    >
                                                    > [snip]
                                                    >
                                                    > Smalltalk Rocks!
                                                    >
                                                    > [snip]
                                                    >
                                                    > Yeah, I'll bet Dave put you up to that too! :)

                                                    Well you Canadians are very clever!!

                                                    Kay

                                                    >
                                                  • Erik Hanson
                                                    ... You might want to slyly mention the geographic area in which you are considering work (not that I have any work to give)... Also, don t forget about the
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Jun 3, 2003
                                                      "Kay A. Pentecost" <tranzpupy@...> wrote:
                                                      > I'm pretty busy... (not with paid work, yet, hint hint if anyone needs an
                                                      > experienced VB programmer who loves XP... or a novice Java or Smalltalk
                                                      > programmer who's willing to learn and wants to do XP hint hint...)

                                                      You might want to slyly mention the geographic area in which you are
                                                      considering work (not that I have any work to give)...

                                                      Also, don't forget about the xp-jobs mailing list, which I haven't plugged
                                                      in a while:

                                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xp-jobs/

                                                      There are usually only a few job postings per month (on a good month), but
                                                      at least the list is 99.95% spam-free!


                                                      Erik Hanson
                                                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.