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RE: [XP] XP Managment Document Templates

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  • Friedman, Paul
    Dale, ... I see your point. And in a way it does. However, /most/ teachers (and I was one by the way) have set expectations of what a paper or document looks
    Message 1 of 24 , May 1, 2003
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      Dale,

      > Hi Paul, Nasif,
      >
      > > Perhaps you could write a paper for your instructor on how
      > > agile methodologies are making documents such as these
      > > obsolete.
      >
      > Doesn't XP create many of these documents?

      I see your point. And in a way it does.

      However, /most/ teachers (and I was one by the way) have set expectations
      of what a paper or document looks like. I don't think a handful of story cards
      would work as an attachment for a student's assignment ;-)

      Perhaps, my thought was to write a paper on how XP is /transforming/ the
      more traditional software documentation (that which the professor assigned)
      into something more organic and useful (e.g. story cards, unit tests, etc.)

      pax et bonum. p.
    • Dale Emery
      Hi Ron, ... In CMM v1.1, some of the Key Process Area goals directly require documenting one thing or another. For example, Goal 2 of the Software Project
      Message 2 of 24 , May 1, 2003
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        Hi Ron,

        > I am aware of no requirement in the CMM that /anything/ be
        > documented.

        In CMM v1.1, some of the Key Process Area goals directly require
        documenting one thing or another. For example, Goal 2 of the
        Software Project Planning KPA says, "Software project activities
        and commitments are planned and documented."

        I don't know whether CMMI (the latest version of a suite of CMMs)
        requires documenting.

        Dale

        --
        Web: http://www.dhemery.com
        Weblog: http://www.dhemery.com/journal (Conversations with Dale)
      • Steve Ropa
        I think you are both right. Write the paper on how XP is transforming, and use the photos and cards as supporting evidence. Even better, if you have the
        Message 3 of 24 , May 1, 2003
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          I think you are both right. Write the paper on how XP is transforming, and
          use the photos and cards as supporting evidence. Even better, if you have
          the time, use some templates from RUP to create the more traditional style,
          and compare and contrast.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Friedman, Paul [mailto:paulf@...]
          Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 12:43 PM
          To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [XP] XP Managment Document Templates

          Dale,

          > Hi Paul, Nasif,
          >
          > > Perhaps you could write a paper for your instructor on how
          > > agile methodologies are making documents such as these
          > > obsolete.
          >
          > Doesn't XP create many of these documents?

          I see your point. And in a way it does.

          However, /most/ teachers (and I was one by the way) have set expectations
          of what a paper or document looks like. I don't think a handful of story
          cards
          would work as an attachment for a student's assignment ;-)

          Perhaps, my thought was to write a paper on how XP is /transforming/ the
          more traditional software documentation (that which the professor assigned)
          into something more organic and useful (e.g. story cards, unit tests, etc.)

          pax et bonum. p.

          To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...

          To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
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        • Ed Mostrom
          ... Hey Ron, I am not a CMM guru myself, I just know that the past 3 companies I have worked for claimed these were needed for them to pass audits. And I am
          Message 4 of 24 , May 1, 2003
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            Ron Jeffries wrote:
            >
            > On Thursday, May 1, 2003, at 1:31:19 PM, Ed Mostrom wrote:
            >
            > > You do if your company is or trying to become CMM Level 2+ compliant.
            > > You are required to have procedures documented, a trail that shows what
            > > was decided at specific times and what errors were caught at each time
            > > period (phase), and also to do and document formal code reviews. The
            > > question becomes how to make these documents small enough and fast
            > > enough so that you comply with CMM requirements; but don't slow XP down
            > > too much.
            >
            > Hi Ed,
            >
            > I am aware of no requirement in the CMM that /anything/ be documented. This
            > might be a function of one's auditor, or of course I could be wrong.
            >
            > And do you have examples of documents used successfully for this purpose?
            >

            Hey Ron,

            I am not a CMM guru myself, I just know that the past 3 companies I have
            worked for claimed these were needed for them to pass audits. And I am
            sure this is true for them; but it could have been for other reasons -
            like this was the process approved by the auditors?

            Anyways, I don't have examples of the documents because I haven't gotten
            XP pushed very far in these companies. But this would be my first try:

            -Software Configuration Management Plan
            -Software Quality Assurance Plan
            These are both one time documents (based on my assumption of what these
            are). Describe the process of version control and implementation, and
            your plan to develop quality software.

            -Software Requirements Specifications
            Gather up all of the story cards at the beginning of an iteration and
            write them down in a single document. Maybe add the acceptance tests as
            verification of requirements.

            -Software Project Management Plan
            This would be a release based plan with milestones for each iteration.
            You could put in the individual tasks for the current iteration; but the
            document would have to be living because you don't know what will be in
            the next iteration.

            -Software Testing Document
            Some standard blurb about how unit testing is done and add the
            acceptance tests to it at the beginning of each iteration until the
            release is done.

            -Requirements Analysis Document
            Not sure what this is, but maybe acceptance test would prove the
            requirements were gathered correctly?

            -Object Design Document
            I wouldn't want to do Object design because that comes out while
            coding. You can't design everything up front and then type it in.
            Luckly I have never worked for a company that required this level of
            design effort.

            -Software Design Document
            Make it light. Give a 2 sentence overview of what you intend to do for
            each story and a list of the programs that will be changed and why. If
            a story is one of the bigger ones, might need to describe some sub-tasks
            that would go on.


            Shouldn't take too much time at the beginning of each iteration.


            Ed
          • yahoogroups@jhrothjr.com
            ... From: Ed Mostrom To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 24 , May 1, 2003
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              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Ed Mostrom" <edward.mostrom.at.eds.com@...>
              To: "extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com"
              <extremeprogramming.at.yahoogroups.com@...>
              Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2003 4:04 PM
              Subject: Re: [XP] XP Managment Document Templates


              >
              >
              > Ron Jeffries wrote:
              > >
              > > On Thursday, May 1, 2003, at 1:31:19 PM, Ed Mostrom wrote:
              > >
              > > > You do if your company is or trying to become CMM Level 2+ compliant.
              > > > You are required to have procedures documented, a trail that shows
              what
              > > > was decided at specific times and what errors were caught at each time
              > > > period (phase), and also to do and document formal code reviews. The
              > > > question becomes how to make these documents small enough and fast
              > > > enough so that you comply with CMM requirements; but don't slow XP
              down
              > > > too much.
              > >
              > > Hi Ed,
              > >
              > > I am aware of no requirement in the CMM that /anything/ be documented.
              This
              > > might be a function of one's auditor, or of course I could be wrong.
              > >
              > > And do you have examples of documents used successfully for this
              purpose?
              > >
              >
              > Hey Ron,
              >
              > I am not a CMM guru myself, I just know that the past 3 companies I have
              > worked for claimed these were needed for them to pass audits. And I am
              > sure this is true for them; but it could have been for other reasons -
              > like this was the process approved by the auditors?

              I think that's likely the case. As I understand it, each level in CMM
              has a number of Key Process Areas (KPAs.) Your process has to
              address each of the areas, and document how it does so, and also
              demonstrate that you follow your documented process.

              If your process specifies that you produce a Software Quality
              Assurance Plan, for example, then you need to produce that
              document, and actually follow it in practice. But there's nothing
              in CMM that says you need that specific document, only that your
              process must somehow visibly address the KPAs.

              >
              > Anyways, I don't have examples of the documents because I haven't gotten
              > XP pushed very far in these companies. But this would be my first try:
              >
              > -Software Configuration Management Plan
              > -Software Quality Assurance Plan
              > These are both one time documents (based on my assumption of what these
              > are). Describe the process of version control and implementation, and
              > your plan to develop quality software.

              I think you're right on the SCM plan. XP has a number of requirments
              in that area, including daily integrations (clean desk at night) and 100%
              unit test execution that the SCM plan needs to meet for it to be XP.

              On the other hand, I don't see the QA plan the same way. I suspect
              it should deal with how the product will be tested; that is, the customer
              tests. It might also deal with how the process will be enforced (process
              QA.)


              > -Software Requirements Specifications
              > Gather up all of the story cards at the beginning of an iteration and
              > write them down in a single document. Maybe add the acceptance tests as
              > verification of requirements.

              Basically, yes.

              > -Software Project Management Plan
              > This would be a release based plan with milestones for each iteration.
              > You could put in the individual tasks for the current iteration; but the
              > document would have to be living because you don't know what will be in
              > the next iteration.

              I haven't a clue what this plan is. It could be what you say, it
              could be something completely different.

              > -Software Testing Document
              > Some standard blurb about how unit testing is done and add the
              > acceptance tests to it at the beginning of each iteration until the
              > release is done.

              I think I agree that this is either boilerplate, or a restatement
              of the executable acceptance tests (to be defined at the start
              of the iteration.)

              > -Requirements Analysis Document
              > Not sure what this is, but maybe acceptance test would prove the
              > requirements were gathered correctly?

              This document usually takes the requiremets and breaks them
              down into software components. I'd do it after the fact. Either
              that, or it's the task breakdown produced in the iteration planning
              meeting.

              > -Object Design Document
              > I wouldn't want to do Object design because that comes out while
              > coding. You can't design everything up front and then type it in.
              > Luckly I have never worked for a company that required this level of
              > design effort.

              I'd do this after the fact. If I had access to a reverse engineering tool,
              I'd let it generate the document.

              > -Software Design Document
              > Make it light. Give a 2 sentence overview of what you intend to do for
              > each story and a list of the programs that will be changed and why. If
              > a story is one of the bigger ones, might need to describe some sub-tasks
              > that would go on.

              I'd call this a retrospective too. Just figure out who'll be reading it, and
              aim it at them.


              > Shouldn't take too much time at the beginning of each iteration.

              Some of this stuff is potentially useful, much of it is a waste of time.
              Render unto Caeser, and all that.

              John Roth
            • Ron Jeffries
              ... XP does not specify any documents in the detail you and your professor probably expect. At the same time, XP does specify that the team should produce any
              Message 6 of 24 , May 1, 2003
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                On Thursday, May 1, 2003, at 12:52:18 PM, nasif ekiz wrote:

                > I need some project managment documents(if exists!) templates like :

                > Software Requirements Specifications
                > Software Project Managment Plan
                > Software Testing Document
                > Software Configuration Managment Plan
                > Software Quality Assurance Plan
                > Requirements Analysis Document
                > Object Design Document
                > Software Design Document

                XP does not specify any documents in the detail you and your professor
                probably expect.

                At the same time, XP does specify that the team should produce any
                documents that the customer or management require.

                As others have suggested, I think your real learning -- and your
                contribution -- could be in explaining how your project, and others can be
                done effectively with just XP-style communication.

                But for your grade, you need to reach agreement with the professor. He's a
                key member of your XP project's customer/management team, and he must be
                satisfied.

                Ron Jeffries
                www.XProgramming.com
                A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest. -- Paul Simon
              • Ron Jeffries
                ... Yes, I should have said I am aware of no requirement that any specific document be created. Documenting commitments might be done by posting them on the
                Message 7 of 24 , May 1, 2003
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                  On Thursday, May 1, 2003, at 3:47:06 PM, Dale Emery wrote:

                  > > I am aware of no requirement in the CMM that /anything/ be
                  > > documented.

                  > In CMM v1.1, some of the Key Process Area goals directly require
                  > documenting one thing or another. For example, Goal 2 of the
                  > Software Project Planning KPA says, "Software project activities
                  > and commitments are planned and documented."

                  > I don't know whether CMMI (the latest version of a suite of CMMs)
                  > requires documenting.

                  Yes, I should have said "I am aware of no requirement that any specific
                  document be created."

                  Documenting commitments might be done by posting them on the wall.

                  But I'm sure it's going to be auditor dependent.

                  Ron Jeffries
                  www.XProgramming.com
                  If it is more than you need, it is waste. -- Andy Seidl
                • Willem Bogaerts
                  If you need any of the documents, they will emerge from the project. For some of my projects, for instance, I maintain an UML model, just to order my thoughts.
                  Message 8 of 24 , May 2, 2003
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                    If you need any of the documents, they will emerge from the project. For some of my projects, for instance, I maintain an UML model, just to order my thoughts. So the documents are not the first to be delivered: they grow with the software.

                    Best regards,

                    Willem Bogaerts

                    >>> nasifekiz@... 01/05/2003 18:52:18 >>>

                    Hi,

                    I need some project managment documents(if exists!) templates like :

                    Software Requirements Specifications
                    Software Project Managment Plan
                    Software Testing Document
                    Software Configuration Managment Plan
                    Software Quality Assurance Plan
                    Requirements Analysis Document
                    Object Design Document
                    Software Design Document

                    Thanks

                    Nasif Ekiz








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                  • Alan Tway
                    Nasif: XP does NOT exlude management documents , they are just outside of what is the simpliest thing that can possibly work. The real academic challenge for
                    Message 9 of 24 , May 2, 2003
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                      Nasif:

                      XP does NOT exlude "management documents", they are just outside of
                      what is the simpliest thing that can possibly work. The real
                      academic challenge for you is to THINK about how to make these simple
                      and applicable. Two reasons:

                      First: Pedantry begats pedantry. Yours is in large part an academic
                      exercise. You will have to show you know what the original documents
                      are all about, and what XP is relative to them. (In teaching there
                      is also the idea that the way you learned is the way you teach.) Do
                      this well and you'll understand XP better.

                      Second: The real world can be pretty pedantic! Why do you have
                      documents for management? Because (everywhere I have worked)
                      management can't or doesn't (can't really tell which) read code. (I
                      can only think of one manager of all the dozens I've worked for who
                      actually coded. The worst one even claimed managers didn't need to
                      know how the work was done to effectively manage.)

                      Nasif, in my opinion, the real reason to do XP is that the code it
                      produces is so far superior to that produced using any other
                      methodology. Maintaining models and documents are indirect
                      products. XP focuses on direct products. If managmenet wants to pay
                      for indirect products, XP does not preclude them, it just doesn't
                      include/require them. XP lets you do whatever you need AND makes it
                      easy to show what it costs.

                      Alan Tway
                      Computer Sciences Corporation

                      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, "nasif ekiz"
                      <nasifekiz@h...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I don't need them but my instructor ask me to write these
                      documents. I take
                      > a course on Software Engeneering(I choosed XP as methodology) and I
                      have to
                      > fill all these documents.
                      >
                      >
                      > >From: "Donald F. McLean" <dmclean@s...>
                      > >Reply-To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                      > >To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                      > >Subject: Re: [XP] XP Managment Document Templates
                      > >Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 13:03:47 -0400
                      > >
                      > >While it is likely that someone on this list might be able to help
                      you,
                      > >it is much more likely that lots of people (including myself) will
                      try
                      > >to convince you that you probably don't need them.
                      > >
                      > >That's the "lightweight" part of "lightweight methodologies" - only
                      > >documents that are truly needed are produced. Every document on
                      your
                      > >list is an unnecessary in XP - there are other, more time
                      efficient ways
                      > >of addressing the issues that those documents were developed to
                      address.
                      > >
                      > >Donald
                      > >
                      > >nasif ekiz wrote:
                      > > > I need some project managment documents(if exists!) templates
                      like :
                      > > >
                      > > > Software Requirements Specifications
                      > > > Software Project Managment Plan
                      > > > Software Testing Document
                      > > > Software Configuration Managment Plan
                      > > > Software Quality Assurance Plan
                      > > > Requirements Analysis Document
                      > > > Object Design Document
                      > > > Software Design Document
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@e...
                      > >
                      > >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                      > >extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@e...
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                      > >
                      > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                      http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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                      > >
                      >
                      >
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