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Objectview interview with Doug Rosenberg

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  • John Favaro
    I just received this. I got the issue as a PDF attachment but apparently you can download it from the site. No-holds-barred critique of XP. ... John
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 30, 2003
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      I just received this. I got the issue as a PDF attachment but apparently you
      can download it from the site. No-holds-barred critique of XP.

      > IN ISSUE 7
      > *************
      ...
      > * Interview with author Doug Rosenberg and Matt Stephens on their
      > forthcoming book: XP Refactored.#
      >
      > If you know someone who would like to get it, tell this to click the
      > following link to subscribe:
      > mailto:objectiveview@...?subject=subscribe
      >
      > See www.ratio.co.uk/objectiveview.html for back issues.

      John
    • Ilja Preuss
      ... It s irksome, isn t it? Regards, Ilja
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 30, 2003
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        > I just received this. I got the issue as a PDF attachment but
        > apparently you can download it from the site. No-holds-barred
        > critique of XP.

        It's irksome, isn't it? <sigh>

        Regards, Ilja

        > > IN ISSUE 7
        > > *************
        > ...
        > > * Interview with author Doug Rosenberg and Matt Stephens on their
        > > forthcoming book: XP Refactored.#
        > >
        > > If you know someone who would like to get it, tell this to
        > click the
        > > following link to subscribe:
        > > mailto:objectiveview@...?subject=subscribe
        > >
        > > See www.ratio.co.uk/objectiveview.html for back issues.
      • Steve Ropa
        At least he/they are just spouting the same old tired story. I especially liked the part where he said I am not certain about this but I think the XP plugin
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 30, 2003
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          At least he/they are just spouting the same old tired story. I especially
          liked the part where he said "I am not certain about this but I think the XP
          plugin pretty much deletes all the analysis and design activities." Sounds
          like the old "I never saw the movie, but I am sure that it is a bad movie
          that corrupts our youth, and should be banned". I also liked the big
          half-page ad for Iconix that showed up after the interview...

          Coincidence?????
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Ilja Preuss [mailto:preuss@...]
          Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 2:43 AM
          To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [XP] Objectview interview with Doug Rosenberg

          > I just received this. I got the issue as a PDF attachment but
          > apparently you can download it from the site. No-holds-barred
          > critique of XP.

          It's irksome, isn't it? <sigh>

          Regards, Ilja

          > > IN ISSUE 7
          > > *************
          > ...
          > > * Interview with author Doug Rosenberg and Matt Stephens on their
          > > forthcoming book: XP Refactored.#
          > >
          > > If you know someone who would like to get it, tell this to
          > click the
          > > following link to subscribe:
          > > mailto:objectiveview@...?subject=subscribe
          > >
          > > See www.ratio.co.uk/objectiveview.html for back issues.


          To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...

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        • banshee858
          One term that kept coming up in the article was prototype . I thought delivering a completely working system each iteration was nota prototype. I think they
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 30, 2003
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            One term that kept coming up in the article was "prototype". I
            thought delivering a completely working system each iteration was
            nota prototype. I think they are using "prototype" as a boogeyman to
            scare people off of XP. Also, the seemed to completely leave out any
            discussion of planning. Maybe they skipped that chapter?

            It also seemed strange to me they took the XP community to task for
            elvolving the definition of the customer to reflect a reality in many
            large organizations there already is a large team of stakeholders
            creating requirements. From what I understand, the customer team
            concept just makes an attempt to include the these people in the
            decision making process, but they are not required to work on-site
            with the programmers.
          • George Paci
            ... Sounds like a good idea. I could swear I ve seen it somewhere else ... Remember, this is someone who wrote a book about XP. You can get the whole issue
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 30, 2003
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              Towards the end of the interview, Matt Stephens says:

              > An effective way of stabilising a precode design is (paradoxically,
              > perhaps) to write some code first: nothing pretty, just some throwaway
              > code so that you get a feel for what you're doing. Just a small amount
              > of prototyping in this way (perhaps just spending a day or two on
              > this) can have a profound effect on the design.

              Sounds like a good idea. I could swear I've seen it somewhere else
              before.... Then he goes on to say:

              > It's the effect that XP is supposed to provide (i.e. increased
              > understanding of the design through coding), but you really don't need
              > to push the dial up to 10 in order to get it. (By that I mean you
              > don't need to be prototyping all the time).

              Remember, this is someone who wrote a book about XP.

              You can get the whole issue from one of these two links:
              http://www.ratio.co.uk/ov7.pdf (700 KB)
              http://www.ratio.co.uk/ov7.zip (420 KB)

              Take a deep breath before, during, and after reading.
              --George

              George Paci <george@...>
              parser, n. -- the part of a compiler that translates
              the source language into LISP
            • Kay A. Pentecost
              Hey, George, ... I would also recommend a glass (or two) of your favorite mind-numbing libation..... Kay
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 30, 2003
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                Hey, George,

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: George Paci [mailto:george@...]
                > Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 12:47 PM
                > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: Re: [XP] Objectview interview with Doug Rosenberg
                >



                >
                > Take a deep breath before, during, and after reading.

                I would also recommend a glass (or two) of your favorite mind-numbing
                libation.....

                Kay

                >
              • James Robertson
                I responded to the article on my blog. See: http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView?showComments=true&entry=3229193365 ...
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 30, 2003
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                  I responded to the article on my blog. See:

                  http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView?showComments=true&entry=3229193365


                  At 09:16 AM 4/30/2003 -0600, you wrote:
                  >At least he/they are just spouting the same old tired story. I especially
                  >liked the part where he said "I am not certain about this but I think the XP
                  >plugin pretty much deletes all the analysis and design activities." Sounds
                  >like the old "I never saw the movie, but I am sure that it is a bad movie
                  >that corrupts our youth, and should be banned". I also liked the big
                  >half-page ad for Iconix that showed up after the interview...
                  >
                  >Coincidence?????
                  >-----Original Message-----
                  >From: Ilja Preuss [mailto:preuss@...]
                  >Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2003 2:43 AM
                  >To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: RE: [XP] Objectview interview with Doug Rosenberg
                  >
                  > > I just received this. I got the issue as a PDF attachment but
                  > > apparently you can download it from the site. No-holds-barred
                  > > critique of XP.
                  >
                  >It's irksome, isn't it? <sigh>
                  >
                  >Regards, Ilja
                  >
                  > > > IN ISSUE 7
                  > > > *************
                  > > ...
                  > > > * Interview with author Doug Rosenberg and Matt Stephens on their
                  > > > forthcoming book: XP Refactored.#
                  > > >
                  > > > If you know someone who would like to get it, tell this to
                  > > click the
                  > > > following link to subscribe:
                  > > > mailto:objectiveview@...?subject=subscribe
                  > > >
                  > > > See www.ratio.co.uk/objectiveview.html for back issues.
                  >
                  >
                  >To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                  >
                  >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  >extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                  >
                  >ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >
                  >To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                  >
                  >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  >extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                  >
                  >ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                  >
                  >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

                  <Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library>
                  James Robertson, Product Manager, Cincom Smalltalk
                  http://www.cincomsmalltalk.com/blog/blogView
                  jarober@...
                • Ron Jeffries
                  ... Nicely done, James! Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Think! -- Aretha Franklin
                  Message 8 of 8 , May 1 1:22 AM
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                    On Wednesday, April 30, 2003, at 10:23:26 PM, James Robertson wrote:

                    > I responded to the article on my blog.

                    Nicely done, James!

                    Ron Jeffries
                    www.XProgramming.com
                    Think! -- Aretha Franklin
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