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[XP] Re: Initial Planning and Metaphor

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  • Kiel Hodges <kielhodges@mindspring.com>
    ... another ... task ... the ... right ... too ... with ... little ... this ... though, to ... to me, often ... maybe I m ... do many. ... Syrus (ca. 42 BCE)
    Message 1 of 41 , Mar 1, 2003
      --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Ron Jeffries
      <ronjeffries@a...> wrote:
      > On Saturday, March 1, 2003, at 10:17:02 AM, Kiel Hodges
      <kielhodges@m...> wrote:
      > > Say we're doing a task that requires that a class retrieve an
      > > instance of another class from the DB facade. There is
      > > task to implement that retrieval. We can proceed with our
      > > without waiting on the other because we aren't going to use
      > > real facade anyway. It's easy to have the mock give us the
      > > answer for the particular test.
      > > In the case where the facade itself doesn't yet exist, have a
      > > /quick/ discussion to come up with the interface. Don't get
      > > caught up in designing the perfect interface, just come up
      > > something that's close enough. If the interface changes a
      > > when the real facade is implemented, just make the necessary
      > > adjustments to the mock (or vice versa!) In my experience,
      > > is trivial for a team that emphasizes communication.
      > Yes, that's one way, and perhaps a good way. I often prefer,
      though, to
      > build a trivial instance of the /real/ class. Mocks, it seems
      to me, often
      > wind up not matching the real thing, or feeling redundant. But
      maybe I'm
      > just not very good at them, which could be true since I don't
      do many.
      > Ron Jeffries
      > www.XProgramming.com
      > It is a bad plan that admits of no modifications. -- Publius
      Syrus (ca. 42 BCE)

      Could you explain what you mean by "trivial instance of the
      /real/ class" and describe what one might look like for the
      example of the DB facade?

      Kiel Hodges
      SelfSo Software
    • Nick Robinson
      ... Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/
      Message 41 of 41 , Mar 2, 2003
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: George Dinwiddie [mailto:programminglists@...]
        > Sent: 01 March 2003 16:29
        > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [XP] Re: Initial Planning and Metaphor
        > Nick Robinson wrote:
        > >
        > >>Why would you create a class graph? Is the class graph just a
        > >>representation of the customer's experience and knowledge in the
        > >>domain? Why would the programmers want this on paper? Why would the
        > >>customer pay for it? Why not just ask the customer how their domain
        > >>works? How does having a class graph give you information about an
        > >>estimate?
        > >>
        > >
        > >
        > > Why would the customer want to pay for a class graph? Thats not
        > what I am
        > > alluding too. Forget XP a second - remember we are doing these
        > workshops as
        > > we dont know XP, and come from an RUP/UP background (or dare I
        > admit it an
        > > ICONIX background for some). These artefacts are what we have typically
        > > produced, and therefore thats why they are being mentioned in
        > the workshops.
        > The question is "for whom are these artifacts produced and what need to
        > they have for them?" "Because we've always done it that way" is a weak
        > reason. You need to ask "why" again (and perhaps again, again) to
        > uncover the underlying reason, if there is one.

        I think you hit the nail on the head though. The "Because we've always done
        it that way" is a subconcious manifestation that affects the thinking when
        in a common situation were experience has been gained. In XP it is obvious
        such questions need to be answered, again and again to reinforce the point.
        In RUP certain documents are produced through the workflow, as they add
        value to the process and the team working that process (at least thats the
        idea though I have seen this fail).

        > - George
        > --
        > -------------------------
        > George Dinwiddie
        > agile programmer for hire
        > Baltimore/Washington area
        > gdinwiddie@...
        > -------------------------
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