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Re: [XP] Uncle Bob and Roy Miller on Control

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... I don t think they are contradicting. I think they re both talking about steering, influencing, the project based on knowing what is going on in time to do
    Message 1 of 4 , Feb 2, 2003
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      On Saturday, February 1, 2003, at 10:54:08 PM, Dave Hoover wrote:

      > I would be very interested in hearing people's opinions on these two
      > perspectives. I'm not exactly sure what Uncle Bob is trying to control, so
      > I'm not sure if he and Roy are contradicting each other.

      I don't think they are contradicting. I think they're both talking about
      steering, influencing, the project based on knowing what is going on in
      time to do something about it.

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      The rules are ways of thinking, not ways to avoid thinking.
    • Dave Hoover <dave@redsquirrel.com>
      Ron, ... I m getting hung up on the DeMarco paraphrase, You can t manage what you can t control. Is that necessarily true? I guess I m thinking of manage
      Message 2 of 4 , Feb 3, 2003
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        Ron,

        > > I would be very interested in hearing people's opinions on these
        > > two perspectives. I'm not exactly sure what Uncle Bob is trying
        > > to control, so I'm not sure if he and Roy are contradicting each
        > > other.
        >
        > I don't think they are contradicting. I think they're both talking
        > about steering, influencing, the project based on knowing what is
        > going on in time to do something about it.

        I'm getting hung up on the DeMarco paraphrase, "You can't
        manage what you can't control." Is that necessarily true? I guess
        I'm thinking of "manage" in terms of an XP Coach and that's where the
        word "control" doesn't feel quite right. When I think of the role of
        Coach, I do not think of someone who focuses on control. I think of
        someone who encourages, guides, and pays attention to the process.

        "Every time you guide the team, you make them that much less self-
        reliant." --Kent Beck, "Extreme Programming Explained," page 145

        --Dave
      • jeffgrigg63132 <jgrigg@mo.net>
        ... Perhaps see and influence would be more appropriate for a coaching role. - jeff (Or You can t properly manage if you haven t a freakn clue. to be
        Message 3 of 4 , Feb 3, 2003
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          --- "Dave Hoover <dave@r...>" <dave@r...> wrote:
          > I'm getting hung up on the DeMarco paraphrase, "You can't
          > manage what you can't control." Is that necessarily true?
          > I guess I'm thinking of "manage" in terms of an XP Coach
          > and that's where the word "control" doesn't feel quite right.
          > When I think of the role of Coach, I do not think of someone
          > who focuses on control. I think of someone who encourages,
          > guides, and pays attention to the process.
          >
          > "Every time you guide the team, you make them that much
          > less self-reliant." --Kent Beck, "Extreme Programming
          > Explained," page 145


          Perhaps "see and influence" would be more appropriate for a coaching
          role.
          - jeff








          (Or "You can't properly manage if you haven't a freakn' clue." to be
          excessively Dilbert-esque. ;-)
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