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Re: [XP] Practices questions

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... Not true, in my opinion, that you re screwed. What if every time they ask for another little thing, the answer was we re signed up for 31 this iteration,
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 1, 2002
      On Sunday, December 1, 2002, at 1:10:20 PM, Phlip wrote:

      >> * When The Client Is Always Available, is not there the risk that he will
      >> start asking the developers to add "just one more thing" on every feature,
      >> does leading the development out of scope? How to prevent that?

      > That's the point of the whole process; steering.

      > If your customer is a sociopath who can't wait <2 weeks for the PlanningGame
      > for this "just one more thing", you are screwed. However, the process works
      > with sufficient visibility that the answer to the question "Who screwed you"
      > is unambiguous and irrefutable.

      Not true, in my opinion, that you're screwed. What if every time they
      ask for another little thing, the answer was "we're signed up for 31
      this iteration, and 15 of them are done. This idea is a two. Which two
      would you like to remove from the plan?"

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      Bang, bang, Jeffries' silver hammer came down upon their heads ...
    • jhrothjr
      ... y aiming at building a XP user base to, in the near future, implement the X= P pratices at our company. One week ago we had our very first group
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 1, 2002
        --- In extremeprogramming@y..., Hélio Perroni Filho <runecarver@H...> wrote=
        :
        > Gentlemen,
        >
        > I and some working peers are currently running a XP study group, admitedl=
        y
        > aiming at building a XP user base to, in the near future, implement the X=
        P
        > pratices at our company. One week ago we had our very first group meeting=
        :
        > although much motivating, it left us with some questions we were to this =

        > date unable to answer.
        >
        > The questions are:
        >
        > * When The Client Is Always Available, is not there the risk that he will=

        > start asking the developers to add "just one more thing" on every feature=
        ,
        > does leading the development out of scope? How to prevent that?

        Yes, there is that possibility. The response is to ask what unimplemented s=
        tories in the current iteration can be dropped.

        Once you're past the current iteration, you've got more leverage. You simpl=
        y add the story in to the pile, and ask him to prioritize. As Ron says, unle=
        ss you've got a completely irrational customer, he's going to prioritize. It=
        's his job.

        > * How to solve dependency problems among User Stories? For example, if th=
        e
        > Client has no legacy system, and asks us to deliver the report subsystem =

        > before the interface that will collect the data that should go in the
        > report, what do we do?

        You do both pieces in one release. If you've got that kind of dependency, y=
        ou're scheduling based on something other than user priority.

        In general, letting the user set the order in which things are delivered me=
        ans that you don't get to decide how to clump stories for implementation eff=
        iciency.

        > * Is it possible / interesting to combine Use Cases with User Stories? Wh=
        y? How?

        Depends on what you mean by Use Cases. If it's a formal technique, probably=
        not. If it's fairly lightweight, on the order of: on transaction foobar, we=
        expect the entry clerk to do w, x, y and z, then it's information you need =
        anyway.

        > * How to manage Collective Code Ownership in projects divided among sever=
        al
        > development teams?

        I wouldn't attempt to do it. A team is the group of people working on one c=
        ode base. Part of what makes XP work is the tight integration among members =
        of the team; you need less formal communication because you've got more info=
        rmal communication. Attempting to share a code base among multiple teams vio=
        lates this assumption.

        There's a limit on how much code a team can be responsible for. It's fuzzy =
        and has all kinds of qualifictions, but if this question comes up, either th=
        e team is too small, or the code base is too big for one person to be famili=
        ar enough with it to be useful.


        John Roth
        Genuine, certified personal opinions.

        > Obviously, any help with these questions would be much appreciated.
        >
        > --
        > []'s
        > Hélio Perroni Filho
        > h-kun@t...
      • Laurent Bossavit
        ... Some of us are ladies. ...proclivities toward unladylike behavior involving exotic hats and ordnance notwithstanding. (This just to make sure Kay still
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 1, 2002
          > Gentlemen,

          Some of us are ladies.

          ...proclivities toward unladylike behavior involving exotic hats and
          ordnance notwithstanding. (This just to make sure Kay still likes
          me.)

          Cheers,

          -[Morendil]-
          A professional programmer is an amateur who never quit.
        • Hélio Perroni Filho
          ... ... Sorry. Too much exposition to the Harry Potter And The Chamber of Secrets movie has somewhat affected my style. I am not usually that formal anyway,
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 1, 2002
            At 22:17 01/12/02 +0100, you wrote:
            > > Gentlemen,
            >
            >Some of us are ladies.

            ...

            Sorry. Too much exposition to the "Harry Potter And The Chamber of Secrets"
            movie has somewhat affected my style. I am not usually that formal anyway,
            nor... "unladylikely" either. ¬_¬

            --
            []'s
            Hélio Perroni Filho
            h-kun@...
          • William Pietri
            ... Generally, I let little requests slide, often with little chiding; being agreeable helps the relationship. But if an addition might break my estimate, I
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 1, 2002
              On Sun, 2002-12-01 at 03:31, Hélio Perroni Filho wrote:

              > * When The Client Is Always Available, is not there the risk that he will
              > start asking the developers to add "just one more thing" on every feature,
              > does leading the development out of scope? How to prevent that?

              Generally, I let little requests slide, often with little chiding; being
              agreeable helps the relationship. But if an addition might break my
              estimate, I generally say, "Let's write that on a card; you can put that
              in the stack wherever you want." That also sounds very agreeable, and it
              lets the client sort out his conflicting desires on his own.

              William

              --
              brains for sale: http://scissor.com/
            • Kay A. Pentecost
              Hey, Laurent! ... Sorta.... ... Oh, I see you took that into account!! (This just to make sure Kay still likes ... Actally, Laurent, I don t like you any more.
              Message 6 of 10 , Dec 1, 2002
                Hey, Laurent!

                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Laurent Bossavit [mailto:laurent@...]
                > Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 4:17 PM
                > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: [XP] Re: Practices questions
                >
                >
                > > Gentlemen,
                >
                > Some of us are ladies.

                Sorta....

                >
                > ...proclivities toward unladylike behavior involving exotic hats and
                > ordnance notwithstanding.

                Oh, I see you took that into account!!



                (This just to make sure Kay still likes
                > me.)

                Actally, Laurent, I don't like you any more.


                Just as much, however, just as much...

                (just not *more* ) <giggle>

                <grin>

                Kay



                >
                > Cheers,
                >
                > -[Morendil]-
                > A professional programmer is an amateur who never quit.
                >
                >
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