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Re: [XP] xp games

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  • Phlip
    ... That would so totally explain why Peter Merel cooked it up... -- Phlip http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?PhlIp -- Please state the nature of the programming
    Message 1 of 29 , Dec 1, 2002
      Dossy sez:

      > It helps to have a really annoying commentator doing color commentary
      > throughout the challenge ... in order to preserve the true Iron Chef
      > feel.

      That would so totally explain why Peter Merel cooked it up...

      --
      Phlip
      http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?PhlIp
      -- Please state the nature of the programming emergency --
    • Richard Jensen
      ... I did participate in one of Joshua Kerievsky s Extreme Programming workshops. [http://www.industriallogic.com/training/xpw.html] I was just learning about
      Message 2 of 29 , Dec 2, 2002
        --- In extremeprogramming@y..., silver <silver@h...> wrote:
        ...
        > I guess I'll just have to let them muddle around my brain
        > until I come up with what I want: a game which is fun in
        > its own right, independent of being
        > related to programming/refactoring/TDD. but which is
        > "best played" in a style which is analogous to (though,
        > obviously different from) a TDD/Code Just Enough and then
        > Refactor approach.
        >
        ...
        > The goal wasn't to teach XP through the game. The goal,
        > to me, was to have a freestanding game, fun in its own right,
        > with no connection to computation, which is also a source
        > of analogies and exercises related more to refactoring
        > and TDD than XP itself.
        >
        I did participate in one of Joshua Kerievsky's Extreme Programming
        workshops. [http://www.industriallogic.com/training/xpw.html%5d
        I was just learning about XP from a path of trying to find a
        unit test framework and coming across Test-First programming, etc.
        The simulations/exercises with the XPlanations, XP War, etc.
        helped me to better assimilate what I had read even though it was not
        teaching me ALL about the HOW of XP.

        Sometime you need an analogy [xp game] to get across the WHY before
        the HOW becomes relevant. I have a thought for a WHY game for
        refactoring
        but I've never been able to flesh it out enough to try it with
        the people at work who are XP-resistant. :-)

        The basic premise is a modification of "Throw 'n Go Jenga".
        [ http://www.newsearching.com/game/Throw__N_Go_Jenga.html ]
        This variant of the Jenga stacking game has colored blocks and a
        die that is used to determine a player's move. (e.g., the player
        has to move a block that is "blue OR end" to the top of the stack.)

        Obviously a game of stacking blocks is not going to help me with
        the HOW of refactoring.

        But as to the WHY of refactoring--moving these blocks [adding
        features] causes the entire structure to become more and more
        unstable over time. IF all we do is add features we get a real
        mess, but if we can take time to improve the stability of
        problem areas, we can add more and more layers.

        I've been struggling with how to actually relate this more
        directly to XP (cooperative not competitive, short iterations,
        etc.) and it seems like I need to have a goal for the iteration
        (round) and a way to incorporate the conceptual struggle of
        adding functionality vs. refactoring.

        For goals I've been thinking that some sort of card or die
        determines what is to be achieved (all blocks on top-level
        are BLUE?). [But this conflicts with the actual instructions
        on the die for the game. :-(]

        And I'd like to somehow get across that a sprint [or marathon]
        adding more functionality followed by a [lengthy] refactoring
        cycle is not as sustainable nor efficient as constant refactoring.
        Since I'm thinking this is a game/simulation/analogy for those
        who DON'T understand the value of merciless (or even regular)
        refactoring I'm still struggling with how to incorporate this
        aspect.

        FWIW.

        Richard.
      • Kevin Smith
        ... [snip] ... Hmmm. Seems like Tetris has a refactoring element built in. Kevin
        Message 3 of 29 , Dec 2, 2002
          On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 12:45, Richard Jensen wrote:
          > This variant of the Jenga stacking game has colored blocks and a
          [snip]
          > But as to the WHY of refactoring--moving these blocks [adding
          > features] causes the entire structure to become more and more
          > unstable over time. IF all we do is add features we get a real
          > mess, but if we can take time to improve the stability of
          > problem areas, we can add more and more layers.

          Hmmm. Seems like Tetris has a refactoring element built in.

          Kevin
        • Andrey Khavryuchenko
          Dale, DE == Dale Emery wrote: DE Nomic (http://www.nomic.net/) is about refactoring, in a way. Maybe DE not in a way that relates what you want to do.
          Message 4 of 29 , Dec 2, 2002
            Dale,

            "DE" == Dale Emery wrote:

            DE> Nomic (http://www.nomic.net/) is about refactoring, in a way. Maybe
            DE> not in a way that relates what you want to do. But maybe.

            The idea seems interesting, but I hardly guess how it may look like,
            esp. in developers circle.

            Can you provide an example?

            Thanks in advance.

            --
            Andrey V Khavryuchenko http://www.kds.com.ua/
            Silver Bullet Software Solutions http://www.kds.com.ua/edu/
          • Karl Scotland
            ... Not sure if its what you re looking for, but a couple of the London XTC crowd ran an Extreme Robocode session at the recent XP Day. Teams of pairs TDDing
            Message 5 of 29 , Dec 3, 2002
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: silver [mailto:silver@...]
              >
              > So I dunno if any of you nice people are also gamers, but any
              > thoughts/comments/knowledge-of-games-which-already-do-this would be
              > interesting to me.
              >

              Not sure if its what you're looking for, but a couple of the London XTC
              crowd ran an Extreme Robocode session at the recent XP Day. Teams of pairs
              TDDing robots, and competing against each other. After each battle,
              priorities change dependant on your strengths and weaknesses compared to the
              other robots. Interesting and fun.

              See http://www.xpdeveloper.com/cgi-bin/wiki.cgi?RoboCodeWorkshop for more
              info.

              Karl


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            • Dale Emery
              Hi Andrey, ... No. This was an off-the-top-of-my-head idea that may go nowhere. Dale
              Message 6 of 29 , Dec 4, 2002
                Hi Andrey,

                > > Nomic (http://www.nomic.net/) is about refactoring, in a way. Maybe
                > > not in a way that relates what you want to do. But maybe.
                >
                > The idea seems interesting, but I hardly guess how it may look like,
                > esp. in developers circle.
                >
                > Can you provide an example?

                No. This was an off-the-top-of-my-head idea that may go nowhere.

                Dale
              • Andrey Khavryuchenko
                Dale, ... DE No. This was an off-the-top-of-my-head idea that may go nowhere. Thanks anyway... I ll think about possible usage. -- Andrey V Khavryuchenko
                Message 7 of 29 , Dec 6, 2002
                  Dale,

                  "DE" == Dale Emery wrote:

                  >> > Nomic (http://www.nomic.net/) is about refactoring, in a way. Maybe
                  >> > not in a way that relates what you want to do. But maybe.
                  >>
                  >> The idea seems interesting, but I hardly guess how it may look like,
                  >> esp. in developers circle.
                  >>
                  >> Can you provide an example?

                  DE> No. This was an off-the-top-of-my-head idea that may go nowhere.

                  Thanks anyway... I'll think about possible usage.

                  --
                  Andrey V Khavryuchenko http://www.kds.com.ua/
                  Silver Bullet Software Solutions http://www.kds.com.ua/edu/
                • Bill Wake <william.wake@acm.org>
                  I created a small refactoring game, perhaps in the ballpark of the Jenga or Tetris approach (tokens move in formalized ways, anyhow):
                  Message 8 of 29 , Dec 19, 2002
                    I created a small refactoring game, perhaps in the ballpark of the
                    Jenga or Tetris approach (tokens move in formalized ways, anyhow):

                    http://www.xp123.com/g4p/0212a

                    --Bill Wake William.Wake@... www.xp123.com

                    --- In extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com, Kevin Smith <kevinxp@q...>
                    wrote:
                    > On Mon, 2002-12-02 at 12:45, Richard Jensen wrote:
                    > > This variant of the Jenga stacking game has colored blocks and a
                    > [snip]
                    > Hmmm. Seems like Tetris has a refactoring element built in.
                    >
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