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Re: [XP] Who will babysit the babysitters?

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  • Bill Walton
    What s the question? Bill ... From: Phlip To: Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 4:55 PM
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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      What's the question?

      Bill
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "Phlip" <plumlee@...>
      To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 4:55 PM
      Subject: [XP] Who will babysit the babysitters?


      > Extremos:
      >
      > Customer Tests have their own Programmer Test suites, right?
      >
      > I'm sure it says that somewhere, but my last big project was one huge CT,
      so
      > of course we had the PTs on it.
      >
      > --
      > Phlip
      >
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    • Phlip
      ... Does the O-fish-all XP literature require Customer Tests to be written Test-First? -- Phlip
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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        From: "Bill Walton":


        > What's the question?

        Does the O-fish-all XP literature require Customer Tests to be written
        Test-First?

        --
        Phlip
      • Ron Jeffries
        ... My literature recommends it. The story s not done till the customer tests run. So they /have/ to be there by the end of the iteration. Better get started.
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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          On Thursday, October 31, 2002, at 6:14:04 PM, Phlip wrote:

          > Does the O-fish-all XP literature require Customer Tests to be written
          > Test-First?

          My literature recommends it. The story's not done till the customer
          tests run. So they /have/ to be there by the end of the iteration.
          Better get started.

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          FEAR = Fantasy Experienced As Reality
        • Ron Jeffries
          ... I think I misunderstood the question. Are you asking if the tests have tests? I wouldn t think so, but I could be wrong. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com
          Message 4 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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            On Thursday, October 31, 2002, at 6:44:09 PM, Ron Jeffries wrote:

            >> Does the O-fish-all XP literature require Customer Tests to be written
            >> Test-First?

            > My literature recommends it. The story's not done till the customer
            > tests run. So they /have/ to be there by the end of the iteration.
            > Better get started.

            I think I misunderstood the question. Are you asking if the tests have
            tests? I wouldn't think so, but I could be wrong.

            Ron Jeffries
            www.XProgramming.com
            If not now, when? -- The Talmud
          • Phlip
            From: Ron Jeffries ... Okay. So the SuperTest (the batch file of all tests)... - makes all, optionally builds all - runs all production
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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              From: "Ron Jeffries" <ronjeffries@...>


              > Phlip wrote:
              >
              > > Does the O-fish-all XP literature require Customer Tests to be written
              > > Test-First?
              >
              > My literature recommends it. The story's not done till the customer
              > tests run. So they /have/ to be there by the end of the iteration.

              Okay. So the SuperTest (the batch file of all tests)...

              - makes all, optionally builds all
              - runs all production Programmer Tests
              - runs all Customer Tests' Programmer Tests
              - runs all Customer Tests
              - prints out a smiley

              --
              Phlip
            • Phlip
              ... There are those who think Customer Tests start as dumb scripts that compare two big strings, but may end up as large disposable GUIs that let the Customer
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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                > I think I misunderstood the question. Are you asking if the tests have
                > tests? I wouldn't think so, but I could be wrong.

                There are those who think Customer Tests start as dumb scripts that compare
                two big strings, but may end up as large disposable GUIs that let the
                Customer author those strings. (This fits Three Strikes and you Automate -
                if the Customer emits three User Stories in a saying "change this variable
                for me", you give them a cheapie GUI to do it.)

                So if the danged things sprout out of the ground like this, then the only
                Test-First part is while adding modules you know you'l need and you know
                might break.

                This area looks very grey by now, but I don't mind leaving it like that.

                --
                Phlip
              • Edmund Schweppe
                ... Sigh. *My* version of Ant doesn t have a task ... -- Edmund Schweppe -- schweppe@ieee.org -- http://schweppe.home.tiac.net The opinions expressed
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 31, 2002
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                  Phlip wrote:
                  > Okay. So the SuperTest (the batch file of all tests)...
                  >
                  > - makes all, optionally builds all
                  > - runs all production Programmer Tests
                  > - runs all Customer Tests' Programmer Tests
                  > - runs all Customer Tests
                  > - prints out a smiley

                  Sigh. *My* version of Ant doesn't have a <smiley> task ...

                  --
                  Edmund Schweppe -- schweppe@... -- http://schweppe.home.tiac.net
                  The opinions expressed herein are at best coincidentally related to
                  those of any past or future employer. The position of current employer
                  is open; contact me for details!
                • Ilja Preuß
                  ... Try ;-) Regards, Ilja
                  Message 8 of 8 , Nov 1, 2002
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                    > > Okay. So the SuperTest (the batch file of all tests)...
                    > >
                    > > - makes all, optionally builds all
                    > > - runs all production Programmer Tests
                    > > - runs all Customer Tests' Programmer Tests
                    > > - runs all Customer Tests
                    > > - prints out a smiley
                    >
                    > Sigh. *My* version of Ant doesn't have a <smiley> task ...

                    Try

                    <echo message=":-)"/>

                    ;-)

                    Regards, Ilja
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