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Re: [XP] Story and defect History [was: Re: XP project tracking tool : xplanner]

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  • Pierre Boudreau
    ... Thanks Kyle. I think you are right on the money. I was just in the process of writing a reply about how I get confused about what XP is exactly and how
    Message 1 of 14 , Sep 1, 2002
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      Kyle Cordes wrote:
      > > Can you please give an example of something written on a story card a
      > > year ago that you might like to remember?
      >
      >
      > I have some ideas on why people look for (and produce) software for
      > tracking XP story cards:
      >
      > 1) They use the cards in a non-XP way, writing lots of details on them
      > (that should be in an acceptance test or in some document important to
      > their project but not part of XP per se). Those details in the
      > card-written-as-a-use-case might be wanted later.
      >
      > 2) They are doing something XP-ish, but with a distributed team, so the
      > WAN access characteristics of a pile of cards on a table are getting in
      > the way.
      >
      > 3) Programmers, particularly good ones, are often tool builders by
      > nature. Given an information-tracking problem ("keep track of some
      > snippets of text"), even one of small scale, the urge to build a tool
      > for it is ever present.

      Thanks Kyle. I think you are right on the money. I was just in the process
      of writing a reply about how I get confused about what XP is exactly and how
      some seem to want it to be too much IMHO. You made me realise that I was
      contributing to this by trying to do what you describe in all 3 cases.
    • William Pietri
      ... In Douglas Adams s Last Chance To See , he describes this urge very well, talking about, IIRC, spending a lot of time programming his calculator to be
      Message 2 of 14 , Sep 1, 2002
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        On Sun, 2002-09-01 at 07:11, Kyle Cordes wrote:
        >
        > I have some ideas on why people look for (and produce) software for
        > tracking XP story cards:
        >
        > [...]
        >
        > 3) Programmers, particularly good ones, are often tool builders by
        > nature. Given an information-tracking problem ("keep track of some
        > snippets of text"), even one of small scale, the urge to build a tool
        > for it is ever present.

        In Douglas Adams's "Last Chance To See", he describes this urge very
        well, talking about, IIRC, spending a lot of time programming his
        calculator to be able to calculate the volume of a termite mound, even
        though he could have done it much more quickly by hand.

        I think another reason people do this is as a security blanket. If
        you're used to having lots of requirements documents and elaborate
        project plans around, making the transition to the XP style can feel
        scary. This is doubly true if your used to not having tests and having a
        lot of write-only code.


        William

        --
        brains for sale: http://scissor.com/
      • jhrothjr
        ... This, at least, is relatively easy to work around - at least if you re a salesman (i.e. have serious sales training or a reasonable facsimile.) You just
        Message 3 of 14 , Sep 1, 2002
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          --- In extremeprogramming@y..., William Pietri <william@s...> wrote:
          > On Sun, 2002-09-01 at 07:11, Kyle Cordes wrote:
          > >
          > > I have some ideas on why people look for (and produce) software for
          > > tracking XP story cards:
          > >
          > > [...]
          > >
          > > 3) Programmers, particularly good ones, are often tool builders by
          > > nature. Given an information-tracking problem ("keep track of some
          > > snippets of text"), even one of small scale, the urge to build a tool
          > > for it is ever present.
          >
          > In Douglas Adams's "Last Chance To See", he describes this urge very
          > well, talking about, IIRC, spending a lot of time programming his
          > calculator to be able to calculate the volume of a termite mound, even
          > though he could have done it much more quickly by hand.
          >
          > I think another reason people do this is as a security blanket. If
          > you're used to having lots of requirements documents and elaborate
          > project plans around, making the transition to the XP style can feel
          > scary. This is doubly true if your used to not having tests and having a
          > lot of write-only code.

          This, at least, is relatively easy to work around - at least if you're a salesman (i.e. have serious sales training or a reasonable facsimile.) You just ask the mark ^H^H^H^H customer something like: "what would you need in order to feel comfortable with this while you see how it works out in practice?"

          John Roth
          >
          >
          > William
          >
          > --
          > brains for sale: http://scissor.com/
        • John Judd
          ... From: Kyle Cordes To: Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 11:41 PM Subject: Re: [XP] Story and
          Message 4 of 14 , Sep 1, 2002
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            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Kyle Cordes" <kyle@...>
            To: <extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 11:41 PM
            Subject: Re: [XP] Story and defect History [was: Re: XP project tracking tool :
            xplanner]


            > From: "Ron Jeffries" <ronjeffries@...>
            >
            > > > My memory is not the sharpest instrument in my toolbox and I can't
            > see it
            > > > being very quick to search through a few thousand cards to find a
            > note I
            > > > remember seing the customer write on a story card a year ago.
            >
            > > Can you please give an example of something written on a story card a
            > > year ago that you might like to remember?
            >
            >
            > I have some ideas on why people look for (and produce) software for
            > tracking XP story cards:
            >
            > 1) They use the cards in a non-XP way, writing lots of details on them
            > (that should be in an acceptance test or in some document important to
            > their project but not part of XP per se). Those details in the
            > card-written-as-a-use-case might be wanted later.
            >

            True. When I first started writing the cards out I wrote lots more than was
            necessary. The thing though is that you still are limited in how much can be
            written.

            > 2) They are doing something XP-ish, but with a distributed team, so the
            > WAN access characteristics of a pile of cards on a table are getting in
            > the way.
            >
            > 3) Programmers, particularly good ones, are often tool builders by
            > nature. Given an information-tracking problem ("keep track of some
            > snippets of text"), even one of small scale, the urge to build a tool
            > for it is ever present.
            >
            Many the time I have had to resist the urge to write a tool because an existing
            one didn't do something the way I liked. :)

            There is one other reason that you missed. Some people simply don't like
            writing. Every time I have to write something I find I have two problems. I
            usually have to rewrite since I write something wrongly, either misspelled, or
            transposed, or missed words. And, if I have to write a lot I get bad writers
            cramp. I find a keyboard so much more convenient and easier to use. Oh, and I
            have never been a neat writer. Sometime I can't even read my own writing.

            Cheers

            John
          • C. Keith Ray
            ... Good ideas. ... The electronic card should point to the related acceptance tests in the source code repository. The electronic card should point to a
            Message 5 of 14 , Sep 6, 2002
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              > I have some ideas on why people look for (and produce) software for
              > tracking XP story cards:

              Good ideas.

              To Whomever is writing XP-Card software. Here are two new stories:

              > 1) They use the cards in a non-XP way, writing lots of details on them
              > (that should be in an acceptance test or in some document important to
              > their project but not part of XP per se). Those details in the
              > card-written-as-a-use-case might be wanted later.

              The electronic card should point to the related acceptance tests in the
              source code repository.

              The electronic card should point to a record of the tests passing/failing
              over the course of he project.

              ----

              C. Keith Ray
              <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume2.html>
              <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/xpminifaq.html>
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