Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [XP] what's the deal with CRC Cards?

Expand Messages
  • Bryan Dollery
    Hi Ron, ... And I thought that you were meant to be extreme! What s wrong with 1. Draw it on a whiteboard 2. Rub it out 3. Go code it TFD ? (I use this
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 1, 2002
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi Ron,

      > > 1. Draw it on a white board
      > > 2. Calrify
      > > 3. Copy it to paper
      > > 4. Erase the white boeard
      > > 5. Copy from paper to tests
      > > 6. Copy tests to code
      > > 7. Throw away the paper
      >
      > Why not
      >
      > 1. Draw it on a white board;
      > 2. Use white board as guide to coding tests;
      > 3. Erase whiteboard when someone wants the space.

      And I thought that you were meant to be extreme!

      What's wrong with

      1. Draw it on a whiteboard
      2. Rub it out
      3. Go code it TFD

      ?

      (I use this technique - if it's too big to fit in my head, it's too complex
      to go in my system - or - if I need it written down, then I obviously don't
      understand it yet)

      Cheers,

      Bryan
    • Ron Jeffries
      ... Ohhhh ... then work on that, not on diagrams ... ;- Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com The practices are not the knowing: they are a path to the knowing.
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 1, 2002
      • 0 Attachment
        Around Thursday, August 1, 2002, 5:48:38 AM, Phil Lewis wrote:

        > I was distracted by the fact that we cannot see the whiteboard from where we
        > code.

        Ohhhh ... then work on that, not on diagrams ... ;->

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        The practices are not the knowing: they are a path to the knowing.
      • Ron Jeffries
        ... It s called Extreme Programming, not Memory Extension. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Sorry about your cow ... I didn t know she was sacred.
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 1, 2002
        • 0 Attachment
          Around Thursday, August 1, 2002, 5:52:47 AM, Bryan Dollery wrote:

          >> 1. Draw it on a white board;
          >> 2. Use white board as guide to coding tests;
          >> 3. Erase whiteboard when someone wants the space.

          > And I thought that you were meant to be extreme!

          > What's wrong with

          > 1. Draw it on a whiteboard
          > 2. Rub it out
          > 3. Go code it TFD

          It's called Extreme Programming, not Memory Extension.

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          Sorry about your cow ... I didn't know she was sacred.
        • Fuqua, Andrew (ISSAtlanta)
          In the early days of this project, we drew and erased and drew and erased on a white board until (1) we understood it, (2) we knew it, and (3) we agreed on it.
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 1, 2002
          • 0 Attachment
            In the early days of this project, we drew and erased and drew and erased on
            a white board until (1) we understood it, (2) we knew it, and (3) we agreed
            on it. But the path we were taking hadn't been clearly set -- there wasn't a
            lot of pre-existing code to guide (constrict) our path. And there were
            bigger holes to fill in. So we had to refer to the board a lot -- it aided
            our memory.

            Now, a year and a half later, we're blazing fewer new trails -- our path is
            often set by existing code. New code seems to fit a certain way in the
            puzzle. We don't need many new diagrams. Our structure is stable. What
            scribbling we do is simple enough to keep in our head.

            The net is, earlier on, I find Ron's 3 more helpful. Later on, I find
            Bryan's 3 sufficient.

            andrew
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:ronjeffries@...]
            Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 5:59 AM
            To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [XP] what's the deal with CRC Cards?


            Around Thursday, August 1, 2002, 5:52:47 AM, Bryan Dollery wrote:

            >> 1. Draw it on a white board;
            >> 2. Use white board as guide to coding tests;
            >> 3. Erase whiteboard when someone wants the space.

            > And I thought that you were meant to be extreme!

            > What's wrong with

            > 1. Draw it on a whiteboard
            > 2. Rub it out
            > 3. Go code it TFD

            It's called Extreme Programming, not Memory Extension.

            Ron Jeffries
            www.XProgramming.com
            Sorry about your cow ... I didn't know she was sacred.


            To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...

            To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
            extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...

            ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com

            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          • Dinwiddie, George
            Step 0, install a whiteboard near the computers.
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 1, 2002
            • 0 Attachment
              Step 0, install a whiteboard near the computers.

              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Phil Lewis [mailto:phil.lewis@...]
              > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 5:49 AM
              > To: 'extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com'
              > Subject: RE: [XP] what's the deal with CRC Cards?
              >
              >
              > Thats Better.
              >
              > I was distracted by the fact that we cannot see the
              > whiteboard from where we
              > code.
              >
              > > -----Original Message-----
              > > From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:ronjeffries@...]
              > > Sent: 01 August 2002 10:43
              > > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
              > > Subject: Re: [XP] what's the deal with CRC Cards?
              > >
              > >
              > > Around Thursday, August 1, 2002, 5:32:15 AM, Phil Lewis wrote:
              > >
              > > > 1. Draw it on a white board
              > > > 2. Calrify
              > > > 3. Copy it to paper
              > > > 4. Erase the white boeard
              > > > 5. Copy from paper to tests
              > > > 6. Copy tests to code
              > > > 7. Throw away the paper
              > >
              > > Why not
              > >
              > > 1. Draw it on a white board;
              > > 2. Use white board as guide to coding tests;
              > > 3. Erase whiteboard when someone wants the space.
              > >
              > > ?
              > >
              > > Ron Jeffries
              > > www.XProgramming.com
              > > Wisdom begins when we discover the difference between
              > > "That makes no sense" and "I don't understand". --Mary Doria Russell
              > >
              > >
              > > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
              > >
              > > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              > > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
              > >
              > > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
              > >
              > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              > **************************************************************
              > ************************************
              > The views expressed in this E-mail are those of the author
              > and not necessarily those of Knowledge Management Software.
              > If you are not the intended recipient or the person
              > responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, please
              > be advised that you have received this E-mail in error and
              > that any use is strictly prohibited.
              >
              > If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify us
              > by forwarding this E-mail to the following address:
              >
              > mailadmin@...
              > **************************************************************
              > ************************************
              >
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
              >
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
              >
              > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >
            • Charlie Poole
              Phil ... Have you done role-playing with with CRC cards? Used that way, they bring the out the object interactions very quickly and make it obvious where you
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 1, 2002
              • 0 Attachment
                Phil

                > Another thought on CRC. I guess in terms of what place they have,
                > I can say a brief word. Because I recon they occupy the same place
                > as UML. <snip/>

                Have you done role-playing with with CRC cards? Used that way, they
                bring the out the object interactions very quickly and make it
                obvious where you need to make changes. The process feels quite
                different from a group drawing diagrams at the whiteboard and it
                benefits from the fact that users can get involved.

                Charlie Poole
                cpoole@...
                www.pooleconsulting.com
                www.charliepoole.org
              • Phil Lewis
                We haven t tried it this way. A lot of my team had really bad views of role-playing. It was greatly disparaged, and as UML was delivering the goods, there
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 2, 2002
                • 0 Attachment
                  We haven't tried it this way. A lot of my team had really bad views of
                  role-playing. It was greatly disparaged, and as UML was delivering the
                  goods, there seemed little point forcing people to do something they
                  disliked.

                  With a different team, I would probably try it.

                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: Charlie Poole [mailto:cpoole@...]
                  > Sent: 01 August 2002 18:00
                  > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: RE: [XP] what's the deal with CRC Cards?
                  >
                  >
                  > Phil
                  >
                  > > Another thought on CRC. I guess in terms of what place they have,
                  > > I can say a brief word. Because I recon they occupy the same place
                  > > as UML. <snip/>
                  >
                  > Have you done role-playing with with CRC cards? Used that way, they
                  > bring the out the object interactions very quickly and make it
                  > obvious where you need to make changes. The process feels quite
                  > different from a group drawing diagrams at the whiteboard and it
                  > benefits from the fact that users can get involved.
                  >
                  > Charlie Poole
                  > cpoole@...
                  > www.pooleconsulting.com
                  > www.charliepoole.org
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                  >
                  > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                  > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                  >
                  > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                  >
                  > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                  > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                  >
                  >


                  **************************************************************************************************
                  The views expressed in this E-mail are those of the author and not necessarily those of Knowledge Management Software.
                  If you are not the intended recipient or the person responsible for delivering to the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this E-mail in error and that any use is strictly prohibited.

                  If you have received this E-mail in error, please notify us by forwarding this E-mail to the following address:

                  mailadmin@...
                  **************************************************************************************************
                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.