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Best book for beginners...

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  • franshaarman
    The subject says it all. I am going to pick up coding again (only did some html/php/perl) and I feel I need some sort of standard. I really like the ideas
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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      The subject says it all.

      I am going to pick up coding again (only did some html/php/perl) and I
      feel I need some sort of standard. I really like the ideas behind XP
      and want to learn more!

      Are there any free online books availible somewhere ?

      And what would be a good book to begin with ? I am looking for
      something which discusses very step, perhaps tips for coding styles,
      example projects maybe. Basicly I want someone to hold my hand while
      telling me what he/she feels is the best way of doing things :)

      Regards,

      Frans
    • pschrier@xs4all.nl
      Hi Frans, I am not aware of free online books about XP. The books on www.mindspring.com about Java do have a chapter covering XP. Besides that bthere is a
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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        Hi Frans,

        I am not aware of free online books about XP. The books on
        www.mindspring.com about Java do have a chapter covering XP. Besides that
        bthere is a wealth of information on the wiki's and other links as
        collected on www.xprogramming.com
        But the best learning is by doing it :-). Contact a usergroup and contact
        one of their members for a really hands-on experience.
        Greetings,

        Peter Schrier
        Software Development coach

        ECsoft Nederland


        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xp-nl/



        > The subject says it all.
        >
        > I am going to pick up coding again (only did some html/php/perl) and I
        > feel I need some sort of standard. I really like the ideas behind XP
        > and want to learn more!
        >
        > Are there any free online books availible somewhere ?
        >
        > And what would be a good book to begin with ? I am looking for
        > something which discusses very step, perhaps tips for coding styles,
        > example projects maybe. Basicly I want someone to hold my hand while
        > telling me what he/she feels is the best way of doing things :)
        >
        > Regards,
        >
        > Frans
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
        >
        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
        > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
        >
        > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
        >
        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
        > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
      • C. Keith Ray
        ... You don t mention which language(s) you re interested in. Search the web for Bruce Eckel s books Thinking in C++ and Thinking in Java . He has free
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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          on 2002.07.30 7:17 AM, franshaarman at frans@... wrote:

          > The subject says it all.
          >
          > I am going to pick up coding again (only did some html/php/perl) and I
          > feel I need some sort of standard. I really like the ideas behind XP
          > and want to learn more!
          >
          > Are there any free online books availible somewhere ?
          >
          > And what would be a good book to begin with ? I am looking for
          > something which discusses very step, perhaps tips for coding styles,
          > example projects maybe. Basicly I want someone to hold my hand while
          > telling me what he/she feels is the best way of doing things :)

          You don't mention which language(s) you're interested in.

          Search the web for Bruce Eckel's books "Thinking in C++" and "Thinking in
          Java". He has free on-line editions of those books. Good for getting started
          in those languages.

          There are also some (out of print) free online editions of Smalltalk books
          at <http://www.iam.unibe.ch/~ducasse/WebPages/FreeBooks.html>

          There are lot of online tutorials on Java and Python. Search the web for
          Java tutorials, go to <http://www.python.org>

          Learning multiple languages at once avoids tunnel-vision. You can learn to
          see the higher-level, conceptual patterns of computer languages rather than
          be buried under the syntax of a single language.

          I also recommend buying

          <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/013476904X/qid=1028041856/sr=1-1/ref
          =sr_1_1/103-9945866-7539816>

          and

          <http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0130850861/qid=1028041904/sr=1-5/ref
          =sr_1_5/103-9945866-7539816>

          and comparing them.

          ----

          C. Keith Ray
          <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume2.html>
          <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/xpminifaq.html>
        • C. Keith Ray
          ... Don t forget to read a draft of Kent s Test Driven Development book, at And Refactoring by
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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            on 2002.07.30 7:17 AM, franshaarman at frans@... wrote:

            > The subject says it all.
            >
            > I am going to pick up coding again (only did some html/php/perl) and I
            > feel I need some sort of standard. I really like the ideas behind XP
            > and want to learn more!
            >
            > Are there any free online books availible somewhere ?
            >
            > And what would be a good book to begin with ? I am looking for
            > something which discusses very step, perhaps tips for coding styles,
            > example projects maybe. Basicly I want someone to hold my hand while
            > telling me what he/she feels is the best way of doing things :)

            Don't forget to read a draft of Kent's "Test Driven Development" book, at
            <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/>

            And "Refactoring" by Fowler is an essential for a professional programmer.

            ----

            C. Keith Ray
            <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/resume2.html>
            <http://homepage.mac.com/keithray/xpminifaq.html>
          • Jorge DeFlon
            Code Complete is also a good programming style book. see too the book from Kernighan *programming* cheers ...
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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              Code Complete is also a good programming style book.
              see too the book from Kernighan "*programming*"

              cheers

              --- "Brian C. Robinson" <brian.c.robinson@...>
              wrote:
              > On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, franshaarman wrote:
              >
              > > Are there any free online books availible
              > somewhere ?
              >
              > http://www.mindview.net/Books
              >
              > That link will give you free copies of many of Bruce
              > Eckel's Thinking in
              > ___ books, covering C++, Java, Python, etc.
              >
              > > And what would be a good book to begin with ? I am
              > looking for
              > > something which discusses very step, perhaps tips
              > for coding styles,
              > > example projects maybe. Basicly I want someone to
              > hold my hand while
              > > telling me what he/she feels is the best way of
              > doing things :)
              >
              > The best book you can read to learn how to program
              > well is Martin
              > Fowler's Refactoring. More than any other book I've
              > read that one has
              > given me great ideas and really made me think about
              > what I was writing
              > and how to make it better.
              >
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to:
              > extremeprogramming@...
              >
              > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
              > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
              >
              > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
              >
              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
              > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
              >
              >


              __________________________________________________
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            • Brian C. Robinson
              ... http://www.mindview.net/Books That link will give you free copies of many of Bruce Eckel s Thinking in ... The best book you can read to learn how to
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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                On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, franshaarman wrote:

                > Are there any free online books availible somewhere ?

                http://www.mindview.net/Books

                That link will give you free copies of many of Bruce Eckel's Thinking in
                ___ books, covering C++, Java, Python, etc.

                > And what would be a good book to begin with ? I am looking for
                > something which discusses very step, perhaps tips for coding styles,
                > example projects maybe. Basicly I want someone to hold my hand while
                > telling me what he/she feels is the best way of doing things :)

                The best book you can read to learn how to program well is Martin
                Fowler's Refactoring. More than any other book I've read that one has
                given me great ideas and really made me think about what I was writing
                and how to make it better.
              • Gareth Reeves
                If you happen to know a regular Pair Programmer and Test First Designer get the to show you how its done. Teaching using TFD has been an interest of mine for
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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                  If you happen to know a regular Pair Programmer and Test First Designer get
                  the to show you how its done. Teaching using TFD has been an interest of
                  mine for some time.

                  If you are lucky enough to know someone who could do this with you please
                  let us know how it goes. If not, I guess you will have to settle for a
                  crappy book (just about the worse way to learn how to code IMHO).

                  ---------------------------------------------------------
                  Gareth Reeves -- reevesg@...
                  http://jstorm.sourceforge.net
                  "Sufficient to the day are the troubles thereof..."
                • jbrewer999
                  ... See my tech note Recommended Reading: Software Development : http://www.jera.com/techinfo/jtns/jtn003.html From that list, I d especially recommend: * The
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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                    --- In extremeprogramming@y..., "franshaarman" <frans@h...> wrote:
                    > And what would be a good book to begin with ? I am looking for
                    > something which discusses very step, perhaps tips for coding styles,
                    > example projects maybe. Basicly I want someone to hold my hand while
                    > telling me what he/she feels is the best way of doing things :)

                    See my tech note "Recommended Reading: Software Development":
                    http://www.jera.com/techinfo/jtns/jtn003.html

                    From that list, I'd especially recommend:
                    * The Pragmatic Programmer (for general best practices)
                    * Smalltalk Best Practices Patterns (for the default XP coding style
                    for _any_ language)
                    * Refactoring

                    I'd also recommend "UML Distilled", which is the best introduction to
                    object-oriented programming that I'm aware of.

                    John Brewer
                    Jera Design

                    Extreme Programming FAQ: http://www.jera.com/techinfo/xpfaq.html
                  • Brian C. Robinson
                    ... I d recommend a new programmer to avoid Code Complete. While there is a lot in the book worth knowing, it recommends writing functions longer than 250
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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                      On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Jorge DeFlon wrote:

                      > Code Complete is also a good programming style book.

                      I'd recommend a new programmer to avoid Code Complete. While there is a
                      lot in the book worth knowing, it recommends writing functions longer
                      than 250 lines, etc. I started a thread on this group a few months back
                      listing some questionable things in the book if anyone's interested.
                    • Steve Ropa
                      Hi Brian, Did we read the same Code Complete? I am looking at page 94, where he says If you want to write routines longer than about 200 lines, be careful.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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                        Hi Brian,

                        Did we read the same Code Complete? I am looking at page 94, where he says "If you want to write routines longer than about 200 lines, be careful." I just re-read the section on routine length, and he seems to very carefully avoid recommending any "best size."

                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Brian C. Robinson [mailto:brian.c.robinson@...]
                        > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 11:50 AM
                        > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [XP] Best book for beginners...
                        >
                        >
                        > On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Jorge DeFlon wrote:
                        >
                        > > Code Complete is also a good programming style book.
                        >
                        > I'd recommend a new programmer to avoid Code Complete. While
                        > there is a
                        > lot in the book worth knowing, it recommends writing functions longer
                        > than 250 lines, etc. I started a thread on this group a few
                        > months back
                        > listing some questionable things in the book if anyone's interested.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                        >
                        > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                        > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                        >
                        > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                        >
                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                        http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                      • Ron Jeffries
                        ... Yeah, but since my optimum is 10, he and I aren t real close ... Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Wisdom begins when we discover the difference between
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 30, 2002
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                          Around Tuesday, July 30, 2002, 2:59:22 PM, Steve Ropa wrote:

                          > Did we read the same Code Complete? I am looking at page 94, where he says "If you want to write
                          > routines longer than about 200 lines, be careful." I just re-read the section on routine length, and he
                          > seems to very carefully avoid recommending any "best size."

                          Yeah, but since my optimum is 10, he and I aren't real close ...

                          Ron Jeffries
                          www.XProgramming.com
                          Wisdom begins when we discover the difference between
                          "That makes no sense" and "I don't understand". --Mary Doria Russell
                        • Edmund Schweppe
                          ... Was your optimum 10 back in 1993 (when _Code Complete_ was written)? OO approaches were still relatively new back then, as I recall, and I m guessing that
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 31, 2002
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                            Ron Jeffries wrote:
                            >
                            > Around Tuesday, July 30, 2002, 2:59:22 PM, Steve Ropa wrote:
                            >
                            > > Did we read the same Code Complete? I am looking at page 94, where
                            > > he says "If you want to write routines longer than about 200 lines,
                            > > be careful." I just re-read the section on routine length, and he
                            > > seems to very carefully avoid recommending any "best size."
                            > Yeah, but since my optimum is 10, he and I aren't real close ...

                            Was your optimum 10 back in 1993 (when _Code Complete_ was written)? OO
                            approaches were still relatively new back then, as I recall, and I'm
                            guessing that the use of objects figures highly in your coding style...
                            It would be very interesting to see if the studies that McConnell cites
                            regarding routine length looked at structured or object code.

                            I do hope that McConnell will find some time to update _Code Complete_;
                            perhaps after he hands off IEEE Software?

                            --
                            Edmund Schweppe -- mailto:schweppe@...
                            The opinions expressed herein are at best coincidentally related to
                            those of any past or future employer. The position of present employer
                            is currently open; contact me for further information!
                          • Steve Ropa
                            ... I must be reading too much into that section. It looks to me like what he is saying is that no study has really proven that size matters. He goes on to
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 31, 2002
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                              >
                              > Ron Jeffries wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Around Tuesday, July 30, 2002, 2:59:22 PM, Steve Ropa wrote:
                              > >
                              > > > Did we read the same Code Complete? I am looking at page
                              > 94, where
                              > > > he says "If you want to write routines longer than about
                              > 200 lines,
                              > > > be careful." I just re-read the section on routine length, and he
                              > > > seems to very carefully avoid recommending any "best size."
                              > > Yeah, but since my optimum is 10, he and I aren't real close ...
                              >
                              > Was your optimum 10 back in 1993 (when _Code Complete_ was
                              > written)? OO
                              > approaches were still relatively new back then, as I recall, and I'm
                              > guessing that the use of objects figures highly in your
                              > coding style...
                              > It would be very interesting to see if the studies that
                              > McConnell cites
                              > regarding routine length looked at structured or object code.
                              >
                              > I do hope that McConnell will find some time to update _Code
                              > Complete_;
                              > perhaps after he hands off IEEE Software?
                              >
                              > --
                              I must be reading too much into that section. It looks to me like what he is saying is that no study has really proven that size matters. He goes on to show common sense when things get *too big*. I just think that too big has changed, like you say, with OO. For the record, I am in the 10 line camp. Back in '93, I used the guideline that a method should fit on one page or less.
                            • Ron Jeffries
                              ... As far back as I can remember, when we were wedging code onto tablets of moist clay, I thought the biggest possible function should be no bigger than you
                              Message 14 of 17 , Aug 1, 2002
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                                Around Wednesday, July 31, 2002, 1:15:49 PM, Edmund Schweppe wrote:

                                > Was your optimum 10 back in 1993 (when _Code Complete_ was written)? OO
                                > approaches were still relatively new back then, as I recall, and I'm
                                > guessing that the use of objects figures highly in your coding style...
                                > It would be very interesting to see if the studies that McConnell cites
                                > regarding routine length looked at structured or object code.

                                As far back as I can remember, when we were wedging code onto tablets
                                of moist clay, I thought the biggest possible function should be no
                                bigger than you could get on a single tablet. When screens came along,
                                I thought they should fit onto one screen.

                                > I do hope that McConnell will find some time to update _Code Complete_;
                                > perhaps after he hands off IEEE Software?

                                Yes.

                                Ron Jeffries
                                www.XProgramming.com
                                First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.
                                - Gandhi
                              • Ivan Tomek
                                Ron, Don t you think that there is a medium-independent fuzzy limit to method length for comfortable human consumption? I can say for sure that I have such a
                                Message 15 of 17 , Aug 1, 2002
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                                  Ron,

                                  Don't you think that there is a medium-independent fuzzy limit to method
                                  length for comfortable human consumption? I can say for sure that I have
                                  such a limit. It might be an interesting experiment to see how method length
                                  and its refactoring affect productivity (apart from other factors).

                                  Ivan

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Ron Jeffries [mailto:ronjeffries@...]
                                  Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 5:19 AM
                                  To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: [XP] Best book for beginners...


                                  ...

                                  As far back as I can remember, when we were wedging code onto tablets
                                  of moist clay, I thought the biggest possible function should be no
                                  bigger than you could get on a single tablet. When screens came along,
                                  I thought they should fit onto one screen.

                                  ...

                                  Ron Jeffries
                                  www.XProgramming.com
                                  First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you
                                  win.
                                  - Gandhi


                                  To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...

                                  To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                  extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...

                                  ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com

                                  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                • Brian C. Robinson
                                  ... I d love to find the original source and argue about it but I just moved and my copy of Code Complete is probably somewhere in a mountain of boxes right
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Aug 1, 2002
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                                    On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Steve Ropa wrote:

                                    > Did we read the same Code Complete? I am looking at page 94, where
                                    > he says "If you want to write routines longer than about 200 lines, be
                                    > careful." I just re-read the section on routine length, and he seems
                                    > to very carefully avoid recommending any "best size."

                                    I'd love to find the original source and argue about it but I just moved
                                    and my copy of Code Complete is probably somewhere in a mountain of
                                    boxes right now. Maybe another time...
                                  • Steve Ropa
                                    Oh, I can help. Its in the third box down on the left, labelled kitchen .
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Aug 1, 2002
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                                      Oh, I can help. Its in the third box down on the left, labelled "kitchen".

                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: Brian C. Robinson [mailto:brian.c.robinson@...]
                                      > Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 8:45 AM
                                      > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                                      > Subject: RE: [XP] Best book for beginners...
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > On Tue, 30 Jul 2002, Steve Ropa wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > Did we read the same Code Complete? I am looking at page 94, where
                                      > > he says "If you want to write routines longer than about
                                      > 200 lines, be
                                      > > careful." I just re-read the section on routine length,
                                      > and he seems
                                      > > to very carefully avoid recommending any "best size."
                                      >
                                      > I'd love to find the original source and argue about it but I
                                      > just moved
                                      > and my copy of Code Complete is probably somewhere in a mountain of
                                      > boxes right now. Maybe another time...
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                                      >
                                      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                      > extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                                      >
                                      > ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                                      >
                                      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
                                      > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
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