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Re: Eighty-twenty (was Re: [XP] Some questions about installing XP)

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  • Ron Jeffries
    ... Live with it. Or not. And how does one say bite me in French? ... Ah. Good point. I used it advisedly. I hope you feel better now. ;- ... Yes, it s
    Message 1 of 45 , Jul 1, 2002
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      Around Monday, July 1, 2002, 9:57:48 AM, Laurent Bossavit wrote:

      > Ron:

      >> > Applied to user stories, this yields : "whenever there is large
      >> > variation in story value, we can find an ordering of stories such
      >> > that we can deliver 80% of the project in 20% of the time".
      >>
      >> Too technoid. It's a metaphor. [...]
      >>
      >> > Question : what, if anything, does Kent's "twenty-eighty" rule have
      >> > to do with the one above ?
      >>
      >> Absolutely nothing. Or absolutely everything. Or maybe ... 80%

      > Too postmodern. Vagueness Objection.

      Live with it. Or not. And how does one say "bite me" in French?

      > I like metaphor as much as the next guy (or girl). But at the risk of
      > committing the Sin of Critique, and at the risk of being your typical
      > stodgy, plodding, cartesian French thinker, I'd like to suggest that
      > we use such phrases as "the eighty-twenty rule" or "the twenty-
      > eighty rule" only advisedly.

      Ah. Good point. I used it advisedly. I hope you feel better now. ;->

      > Since I do not, in fact, know what the smex this rule or rules mean,
      > and find myself in a position where I have to know because I'm
      > rewriting Kent's exposé of the rule(s) as applied to XP in a different
      > language, I am asking with the intention of furthering my education.

      Yes, it's always good to know about a thing before writing about it.
      Unless you use my technique, which is to write about something in
      order to think about it. Perhaps you should write something about the
      20/80/20 rule ... no, really.

      > In particular, I woud want not to be left speechless when faced with
      > people who invoke "the 80/20 rule" to justify things that strike me as
      > absurd, such as that "we are doing too much testing".

      Tell us a story of when this happened to you.

      > Much as I hate to say so, your article and comments, while
      > entertaining and worthwhile with respect to "why ship early", have
      > not quenched my thirst for knowledge. I've learned a bit about the
      > 80/20 rule, not enough about the 20/80 rule.

      Um, isn't the 20/80 rule just the 80/20 rule upside down.

      > Could you (or in fact anyone) say a little more ?

      Kent's remarks in Explained, as I recall, refer to a feeling we had at
      the time that the XP rules "popped" when you did them all: that is,
      that you got a lot of benefit from the last few added in. I'm not sure
      whether I still believe that or not: I do believe that there is
      minimal advantage from only doing a few practices, or from doing them
      half-heartedly.

      Certainly there are some rules that make a big difference ... for
      example if you add testing to your refactoring, that helps a lot.
      Actually, adding testing if you aren't doing any helps with
      everything.

      Adding acceptance testing helps immensely with productivity and with
      customer satisfaction.

      And so on ...

      Ron Jeffries
      www.XProgramming.com
      The Great and Powerful Oz has spoken.
    • Ron Jeffries
      ... Not in this case. The article was delivering value . Sorry for the confusion ... Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com The greatest mistake we make is living
      Message 45 of 45 , Jul 7, 2002
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        Around Sunday, July 7, 2002, 1:10:12 PM, dhemeryy wrote:

        >> If it sells the product, it's probably not a 1. The points we're
        >> counting are value points after all.

        > I thought they were difficulty points. Not so?

        Not in this case. The article was "delivering value". Sorry for the
        confusion ...

        Ron Jeffries
        www.XProgramming.com
        The greatest mistake we make is living in constant fear that we will make one.
        -- John Maxwell
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