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Cutter IT Summit

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  • kentlbeck
    I m on my way back from the Cutter IT Summit. What a mind bending few days. Here are a few random thoughts/impressions: * Rob Austin (Harvard BSchool) talked
    Message 1 of 19 , May 1, 2002
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      I'm on my way back from the Cutter IT Summit. What a mind bending few
      days. Here are a few random thoughts/impressions:
      * Rob Austin (Harvard BSchool) talked about managing agile projects
      like a theater director directs a play. A book about the topic is due
      soon, and I will be giving a copy to every manager of teams I coach.
      * Rob Thomsett is a wild man. I was pretty suspicious when I saw he
      had a workshop entitled "Extreme Project Management". He earned a
      worldwide, non-exclusive license to our beloved adjective by
      terrifying me with a question from the floor while I was on a panel.
      He has a book out on Radical Project Leadership (or Management) which
      I have but have not yet read.
      * While Ed Yourdon was talking about "good enough software", I
      realized that in XP we produce "big enough software". Instead of the
      usual biz game of waiting until you have just enough stability to
      ship, the business side of XP teams need to learn how to wait until
      they have just enough scope to ship. "Big enough" puts the emphasis
      on scope, where it belongs, instead of on quality, which isn't a
      control variable.

      Off to airplanes.

      Kent
    • Glen B. Alleman
      Adding to Kent, In Robert Austin and Richard Nolan s 1998 seminal paper (at least seminal for us folks in the field) titled How to Manage ERP Projects, many
      Message 2 of 19 , May 1, 2002
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        Adding to Kent,

        In Robert Austin and Richard Nolan's 1998 seminal paper (at least seminal
        for us folks in the field) titled "How to Manage ERP Projects," many of the
        described practices would now be considered "agile." Much of Austin's work
        is still "new" to the ears of the end users, but agile ERP deployment is
        gaining understanding slowly.

        Glen B. Alleman
        Niwot Ridge Consulting
        4347 Pebble Beach Drive
        Niwot, Colorado 80503
        PO Box 8657
        Breckenridge, CO 80424
        +1.720.406.9164 Office
        +1.720.406.9293 Fax
        +1.720.641.0980 Worldwide Mobile
        galleman@... <mailto:galleman@...>
        www.niwotridge.com <http://www.niwotridge.com/>


        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: kentlbeck [mailto:kentbeck@...]
        >Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 1:34 PM
        >To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
        >Subject: [XP] Cutter IT Summit
        >
        >
        >I'm on my way back from the Cutter IT Summit. What a mind bending few
        >days. Here are a few random thoughts/impressions:
        > * Rob Austin (Harvard BSchool) talked about managing agile projects
        >like a theater director directs a play. A book about the topic is due
        >soon, and I will be giving a copy to every manager of teams I coach.
        > * Rob Thomsett is a wild man. I was pretty suspicious when I saw he
        >had a workshop entitled "Extreme Project Management". He earned a
        >worldwide, non-exclusive license to our beloved adjective by
        >terrifying me with a question from the floor while I was on a panel.
        >He has a book out on Radical Project Leadership (or Management) which
        >I have but have not yet read.
        > * While Ed Yourdon was talking about "good enough software", I
        >realized that in XP we produce "big enough software". Instead of the
        >usual biz game of waiting until you have just enough stability to
        >ship, the business side of XP teams need to learn how to wait until
        >they have just enough scope to ship. "Big enough" puts the emphasis
        >on scope, where it belongs, instead of on quality, which isn't a
        >control variable.
        >
        >Off to airplanes.
        >
        >Kent
      • Ron Jeffries
        ... Couldn t find this on Amazon, so couldn t set up a reservation. I hope when this comes out someone will give a shout. ... Book ordered. What was the
        Message 3 of 19 , May 1, 2002
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          Around Wednesday, May 1, 2002, 3:33:36 PM, kentlbeck wrote:

          > * Rob Austin (Harvard BSchool) talked about managing agile projects
          > like a theater director directs a play. A book about the topic is due
          > soon, and I will be giving a copy to every manager of teams I coach.

          Couldn't find this on Amazon, so couldn't set up a reservation. I hope
          when this comes out someone will give a shout.

          > * Rob Thomsett is a wild man. I was pretty suspicious when I saw he
          > had a workshop entitled "Extreme Project Management". He earned a
          > worldwide, non-exclusive license to our beloved adjective by
          > terrifying me with a question from the floor while I was on a panel.
          > He has a book out on Radical Project Leadership (or Management) which
          > I have but have not yet read.

          Book ordered. What was the question?

          > * While Ed Yourdon was talking about "good enough software", I
          > realized that in XP we produce "big enough software". Instead of the
          > usual biz game of waiting until you have just enough stability to
          > ship, the business side of XP teams need to learn how to wait until
          > they have just enough scope to ship. "Big enough" puts the emphasis
          > on scope, where it belongs, instead of on quality, which isn't a
          > control variable.

          Very interesting. The whole "good enough" thing ticks me off, as
          anyone who has been in the way of my bug database discussion has
          experienced. Perfect is good enough. Anything less and there's
          guaranteed to be a bug in there that the bastxxxxcustomer wants out.
          Might as well just make it as good as we can, save all that debugging
          time.


          Sounds like I made a mistake in not attending. Not my first. I hope
          not my last. Thanks for the report!

          Ron Jeffries
          www.XProgramming.com
          It's easier to act your way into a new way of thinking
          than to think your way into a new way of acting. --Millard Fuller
        • kentlbeck
          ... projects ... due ... coach. ... hope ... I m not sure they have a title yet. The work seemed pretty advanced (it s Rob and a director/drama professor
          Message 4 of 19 , May 2, 2002
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            --- In extremeprogramming@y..., Ron Jeffries <ronjeffries@a...> wrote:
            > Around Wednesday, May 1, 2002, 3:33:36 PM, kentlbeck wrote:
            >
            > > * Rob Austin (Harvard BSchool) talked about managing agile
            projects
            > > like a theater director directs a play. A book about the topic is
            due
            > > soon, and I will be giving a copy to every manager of teams I
            coach.
            >
            > Couldn't find this on Amazon, so couldn't set up a reservation. I
            hope
            > when this comes out someone will give a shout.

            I'm not sure they have a title yet. The work seemed pretty advanced
            (it's Rob and a director/drama professor collaborating).

            > > * Rob Thomsett is a wild man. I was pretty suspicious when I
            saw he
            > > had a workshop entitled "Extreme Project Management". He earned a
            > > worldwide, non-exclusive license to our beloved adjective by
            > > terrifying me with a question from the floor while I was on a
            panel.
            > > He has a book out on Radical Project Leadership (or Management)
            which
            > > I have but have not yet read.
            >
            > Book ordered. What was the question?

            More like challenge. (Put on your best wildly gesticulating
            Australian persona.) "It's not about stories. It's about movies."

            My mind immediately split in two. One half was busily defending the
            XP party line. The other half was going, "Movies. I never thought of
            that. Hmmm, that means..." Fortunately my mouth didn't engage in this
            interval. Scared me, though.

            > > * While Ed Yourdon was talking about "good enough software", I
            > > realized that in XP we produce "big enough software". Instead of
            the
            > > usual biz game of waiting until you have just enough stability to
            > > ship, the business side of XP teams need to learn how to wait
            until
            > > they have just enough scope to ship. "Big enough" puts the
            emphasis
            > > on scope, where it belongs, instead of on quality, which isn't a
            > > control variable.
            >
            > Very interesting. The whole "good enough" thing ticks me off, as
            > anyone who has been in the way of my bug database discussion has
            > experienced. Perfect is good enough. Anything less and there's
            > guaranteed to be a bug in there that the bastxxxxcustomer wants out.
            > Might as well just make it as good as we can, save all that
            debugging
            > time.

            From Sheila Brady (legendary Apple project manager) channeled by
            Alistair--how is debugging like being made love to by an 800 pound
            gorilla? In neither case are you in control of when it will stop.

            Kent
          • Ellen Ferlazzo
            ... Watch out! That s one of Cooper s analogies... :) (See The Inmates are Running the Asylum). Essentially, Preproduction in movies: write script, storyboard,
            Message 5 of 19 , May 2, 2002
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              >-----Original Message-----
              >From: kentlbeck [mailto:kentbeck@...]
              >More like challenge. (Put on your best wildly gesticulating
              >Australian persona.) "It's not about stories. It's about movies."
              >
              >My mind immediately split in two. One half was busily defending the
              >XP party line. The other half was going, "Movies. I never thought of
              >that. Hmmm, that means..." Fortunately my mouth didn't
              >engage in this
              >interval. Scared me, though.

              Watch out! That's one of Cooper's analogies... :) (See The Inmates are
              Running the Asylum). Essentially,

              Preproduction in movies: write script, storyboard, design, hire
              actors
              Preproduction in software: interaction design, storyboard, hire
              programmers

              Production in movies: cameras rolling, directors, actors,
              technicians
              Production in software: programmers code, managers "fetch pizza"
              (his words)

              Post production in movies: editing, soundtrack, marketing
              Post production in software: debugging, docs, marketing

              E l l e n F e r l a z z o
              www.sprez.com
            • Phlip
              ... Ouch. I m just an actor reading a script. Ouch. The irony is one of my colleagues (also a published author on software process) was out acting in an indie
              Message 6 of 19 , May 2, 2002
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                Ellen Ferlazzo sez:

                > Preproduction in movies: write script, storyboard, design, hire
                > actors
                > Preproduction in software: interaction design, storyboard, hire
                > programmers

                Ouch. I'm just an actor reading a script. Ouch.

                The irony is one of my colleagues (also a published author on software
                process) was out acting in an indie movie today.

                --
                Phlip
                http://www.greencheese.org/SonseOne
                -- This machine last rebooted during the Second Millenium --
              • cmanaster@t-online.de
                ... Is it just a bit part? --Carl --
                Message 7 of 19 , May 2, 2002
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                  Phlip writes:

                  >Ellen Ferlazzo sez:
                  >
                  > > Preproduction in movies: write script, storyboard, design, hire
                  > > actors
                  > > Preproduction in software: interaction design, storyboard, hire
                  > > programmers
                  >
                  >Ouch. I'm just an actor reading a script. Ouch.

                  Is it just a bit part?

                  <ducking and running for cover>
                  --Carl
                  --
                • Mark Collins-Cope
                  Chaps, Here s how I did it (blowing quite a few thousand £ a few years ago on making 1/3 of a film): 1 write script. 2 analyse script for cost implications. 3
                  Message 8 of 19 , May 3, 2002
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                    Chaps,

                    Here's how I did it (blowing quite a few thousand £ a few years ago on
                    making 1/3 of a film):
                    1 write script.
                    2 analyse script for cost implications.
                    3 rework script to reduce costs.
                    4 iterate on 2 & 3until pulling hair out.
                    5 refine script to develop detailed shooting schedule (location focused
                    shooting plan).

                    6 (in parallel with 3,4,5)
                    - review applications from literally 100 actors who are willing to work for
                    nothing.
                    - find director of photography (d-o-p) (also not paid)

                    7 work through script with d-o-p - estimate timings for shooting.
                    8 send out call sheets.
                    9 start filming.
                    ... lots of this ... takes much longer than estimated.
                    10. tracking costs, realise I've drastically under-estimated (main
                    incorrect assumption being a shooting ratio of 6-1 which turned out to be
                    16-1, and boy is film processing expensive).
                    11. run out of money (but at least get a fully edited version of what's
                    been shot done).
                    12. rework costs, get a much truer picture of overall costs.
                    13. try and raise money (lots of this).
                    14. fail to raise money.
                    15. give up (keep 1/3 of film to show grandchildren) and put it down to
                    (bad) experience.

                    Is there a moral in this?
                    Ciao,
                    Mark.


                    At 03-05-02, you wrote:
                    >Phlip writes:
                    >
                    > >Ellen Ferlazzo sez:
                    > >
                    > > > Preproduction in movies: write script, storyboard, design, hire
                    > > > actors
                    > > > Preproduction in software: interaction design, storyboard, hire
                    > > > programmers
                    > >
                    > >Ouch. I'm just an actor reading a script. Ouch.
                    >
                    >Is it just a bit part?
                    >
                    ><ducking and running for cover>
                    >--Carl
                    >--
                    >
                    >To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                    >
                    >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                    >extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                    >
                    >ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                    >
                    >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Laurent Bossavit
                    ... ...doing much better at that than most software projects... ;) ... Make this temporarily give up . If you were passionate enough to sink that much time
                    Message 9 of 19 , May 3, 2002
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                      > 11. run out of money (but at least get a fully edited version of what's
                      > been shot done).

                      ...doing much better at that than most software projects...

                      ;)

                      > 15. give up (keep 1/3 of film to show grandchildren) and put it down
                      > to (bad) experience.

                      Make this "temporarily give up". If you were passionate enough to
                      sink that much time and effort into it, I would bet that one day you
                      will find a way to complete that work. As Jeffries is wont to say, I
                      might well lose, but that's the way I'd want to bet.

                      Maybe some of your grandkids will be very rich and will fund you
                      out of a sense of family obligations, humoring an old man past his
                      prime. Or who knows, maybe they will even *like* the film. ;)
                    • Kay A. Pentecost
                      Hi, Phlip, ... You, no, never. You d be the Cinematographer. Actually, actors in film are not equivalent to programmers. Contrary to public opinion, and the
                      Message 10 of 19 , May 3, 2002
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                        Hi, Phlip,

                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Phlip [mailto:pplumlee@...]
                        > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 9:08 PM
                        > To: extremeprogramming@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: Re: [XP] Cutter IT Summit
                        >
                        >
                        > Ellen Ferlazzo sez:
                        >
                        > > Preproduction in movies: write script, storyboard, design, hire
                        > > actors
                        > > Preproduction in software: interaction design, storyboard, hire
                        > > programmers
                        >
                        > Ouch. I'm just an actor reading a script. Ouch.

                        You, no, never. You'd be the Cinematographer.

                        Actually, actors in film are not equivalent to programmers. Contrary to
                        public opinion, and the wishful thinking of actors, actors are really a
                        pretty unimportant part of film production. I would equate them more to
                        Index Cards, Class Diagrams, and other artifacts. Although, occasionally,
                        an actor is a database. With all the attendent problems.

                        I suspect that PHBs would like to think programmers were as disposable as
                        actors...

                        Kay
                      • tranzpupy
                        ... Contrary to ... really a ... more to ... occasionally, ... Which is why ... That s the actor I meant who was the database -- And that pulling power isn t
                        Message 11 of 19 , May 3, 2002
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                          --- In extremeprogramming@y..., Mark Collins-Cope <markcc@r...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >Actually, actors in film are not equivalent to programmers.
                          Contrary to
                          > >public opinion, and the wishful thinking of actors, actors are
                          really a
                          > >pretty unimportant part of film production. I would equate them
                          more to
                          > >Index Cards, Class Diagrams, and other artifacts. Although,
                          occasionally,
                          > >an actor is a database. With all the attendent problems.
                          >
                          > Except for that all important pulling power at the box office.
                          Which is why
                          > they get paid so much (if they have the pulling power).

                          That's the actor I meant who was the "database" -- And that pulling
                          power isn't a constant, is it?

                          But most actors don't get treated all that well on the set. I see the
                          crew (including the director, camera crew, lighting crew, grips,
                          gaffers, script girls, make up, wardrobe, and on into editing as
                          being more parallel to programmers.

                          Kay
                        • tranzpupy
                          Hey, Mark, ... on ... focused ... work for ... out to be ... what s ... down to ... Yeah. Looking back, now, it was a lot of fun, wasn t it? And a lot of
                          Message 12 of 19 , May 3, 2002
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                            Hey, Mark,

                            --- In extremeprogramming@y..., Mark Collins-Cope <markcc@r...> wrote:
                            > Chaps,
                            >
                            > Here's how I did it (blowing quite a few thousand £ a few years ago
                            on
                            > making 1/3 of a film):
                            > 1 write script.
                            > 2 analyse script for cost implications.
                            > 3 rework script to reduce costs.
                            > 4 iterate on 2 & 3until pulling hair out.
                            > 5 refine script to develop detailed shooting schedule (location
                            focused
                            > shooting plan).
                            >
                            > 6 (in parallel with 3,4,5)
                            > - review applications from literally 100 actors who are willing to
                            work for
                            > nothing.
                            > - find director of photography (d-o-p) (also not paid)
                            >
                            > 7 work through script with d-o-p - estimate timings for shooting.
                            > 8 send out call sheets.
                            > 9 start filming.
                            > ... lots of this ... takes much longer than estimated.
                            > 10. tracking costs, realise I've drastically under-estimated (main
                            > incorrect assumption being a shooting ratio of 6-1 which turned
                            out to be
                            > 16-1, and boy is film processing expensive).
                            > 11. run out of money (but at least get a fully edited version of
                            what's
                            > been shot done).
                            > 12. rework costs, get a much truer picture of overall costs.
                            > 13. try and raise money (lots of this).
                            > 14. fail to raise money.
                            > 15. give up (keep 1/3 of film to show grandchildren) and put it
                            down to
                            > (bad) experience.
                            >
                            > Is there a moral in this?

                            Yeah. Looking back, now, it was a lot of fun, wasn't it? And a lot
                            of really hard work...

                            I'm assuming you wrote the script and directed.... and produced.
                            That's a hard job -- known in the industry as a "triple-headed
                            genius."

                            Even if you lost money, you managed to produce a visible product.
                            Something most people never do. Where did you shoot this film?

                            Kay
                          • Mark Collins-Cope
                            ... Except for that all important pulling power at the box office. Which is why they get paid so much (if they have the pulling power). Ciao, Mark.
                            Message 13 of 19 , May 3, 2002
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                              >Actually, actors in film are not equivalent to programmers. Contrary to
                              >public opinion, and the wishful thinking of actors, actors are really a
                              >pretty unimportant part of film production. I would equate them more to
                              >Index Cards, Class Diagrams, and other artifacts. Although, occasionally,
                              >an actor is a database. With all the attendent problems.

                              Except for that all important pulling power at the box office. Which is why
                              they get paid so much (if they have the pulling power).

                              Ciao,
                              Mark.
                            • Mark Collins-Cope
                              Hi Kay, Actually I just produced. The director wrote the script, and did the music. He was the creative one. I spent my time telling him we couldn t afford
                              Message 14 of 19 , May 3, 2002
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                                Hi Kay,

                                Actually I just produced. The director wrote the script, and did the music.
                                He was the creative one. I spent my time telling him we couldn't afford
                                things :-)

                                But yes, it was a lot of fun. It was filmed in the UK around London
                                (including on the underground) and the South East of England.

                                Ciao,
                                Mark.

                                At 03-05-02, you wrote:
                                >Hey, Mark,
                                >
                                >--- In extremeprogramming@y..., Mark Collins-Cope <markcc@r...> wrote:
                                > > Chaps,
                                > >
                                > > Here's how I did it (blowing quite a few thousand £ a few years ago
                                >on
                                > > making 1/3 of a film):
                                > > 1 write script.
                                > > 2 analyse script for cost implications.
                                > > 3 rework script to reduce costs.
                                > > 4 iterate on 2 & 3until pulling hair out.
                                > > 5 refine script to develop detailed shooting schedule (location
                                >focused
                                > > shooting plan).
                                > >
                                > > 6 (in parallel with 3,4,5)
                                > > - review applications from literally 100 actors who are willing to
                                >work for
                                > > nothing.
                                > > - find director of photography (d-o-p) (also not paid)
                                > >
                                > > 7 work through script with d-o-p - estimate timings for shooting.
                                > > 8 send out call sheets.
                                > > 9 start filming.
                                > > ... lots of this ... takes much longer than estimated.
                                > > 10. tracking costs, realise I've drastically under-estimated (main
                                > > incorrect assumption being a shooting ratio of 6-1 which turned
                                >out to be
                                > > 16-1, and boy is film processing expensive).
                                > > 11. run out of money (but at least get a fully edited version of
                                >what's
                                > > been shot done).
                                > > 12. rework costs, get a much truer picture of overall costs.
                                > > 13. try and raise money (lots of this).
                                > > 14. fail to raise money.
                                > > 15. give up (keep 1/3 of film to show grandchildren) and put it
                                >down to
                                > > (bad) experience.
                                > >
                                > > Is there a moral in this?
                                >
                                >Yeah. Looking back, now, it was a lot of fun, wasn't it? And a lot
                                >of really hard work...
                                >
                                >I'm assuming you wrote the script and directed.... and produced.
                                >That's a hard job -- known in the industry as a "triple-headed
                                >genius."
                                >
                                >Even if you lost money, you managed to produce a visible product.
                                >Something most people never do. Where did you shoot this film?
                                >
                                >Kay
                                >
                                >
                                >To Post a message, send it to: extremeprogramming@...
                                >
                                >To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
                                >extremeprogramming-unsubscribe@...
                                >
                                >ad-free courtesy of objectmentor.com
                                >
                                >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                >
                                >
                                >
                              • Mark Collins-Cope
                                ... Well, it was over 5 years ago now. So unfortunately the continuity will have been completely lost (actors gotten older, etc), and one of the major
                                Message 15 of 19 , May 3, 2002
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                                  At 03-05-02, you wrote:
                                  > > 11. run out of money (but at least get a fully edited version of what's
                                  > > been shot done).
                                  >
                                  >...doing much better at that than most software projects...
                                  >
                                  >;)
                                  >
                                  > > 15. give up (keep 1/3 of film to show grandchildren) and put it down
                                  > > to (bad) experience.
                                  >Make this "temporarily give up". If you were passionate enough to
                                  >sink that much time and effort into it, I would bet that one day you
                                  >will find a way to complete that work. As Jeffries is wont to say, I
                                  >might well lose, but that's the way I'd want to bet.

                                  Well, it was over 5 years ago now. So unfortunately the continuity will
                                  have been completely lost (actors gotten older, etc), and one of the major
                                  locations was turned into a block of flats (it was a rather old gothic
                                  mansion that was decaying rapidly)! I will give it another go at some point
                                  though (different project).

                                  More seriously, some genuine lessons that maybe do cross relate to software
                                  development:
                                  1) we were inexperienced, and should have worked more iteratively. If we'd
                                  done some shooting and editing it together (integration) early on, we'd
                                  have realised we were going to be way over budget.Perhaps we'd have decided
                                  to make a complete 30 minute film instead then (more likely we'd have put
                                  our heads into the sand :-)! We'd have also learned more in the early days
                                  and applied it better.
                                  2) scale makes a big difference. The d-o-p had worked previously on
                                  advertisments, and we assumed his take on the timing estimates was going to
                                  be accurate. But he was used to 2 day intensive filming sessions, which
                                  didn't work when extended to a 30 day shoot - people couldn't keep it up.
                                  3) don't fund your own projects (a good rule in software I think :-)!

                                  Ciao,
                                  Mark.
                                • kevinbsmith
                                  ... Fergus O Connell also uses this metaphor in his How to Run Successful Projects books (subtitled The Silver Bullet ). I ve read editions one and two, but
                                  Message 16 of 19 , May 4, 2002
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                                    --- In extremeprogramming@y..., "kentlbeck" <kentbeck@c...> wrote:
                                    > More like challenge. (Put on your best wildly gesticulating
                                    > Australian persona.) "It's not about stories. It's about
                                    > movies."
                                    >
                                    > My mind immediately split in two. One half was busily
                                    > defending the XP party line. The other half was going,
                                    > "Movies. I never thought of that. Hmmm, that means..."

                                    Fergus O'Connell also uses this metaphor in his "How to Run
                                    Successful Projects" books (subtitled "The Silver Bullet").
                                    I've read editions one and two, but not three.
                                    Unfortunately, they're not here in front of me.

                                    His concept is that if a producer and director can lay
                                    out an entire movie production in such detail months in
                                    advance, we should be able to do the same thing for
                                    software development.

                                    I used to think this was a great idea, before I found XP.
                                    Now, I realize that even if it is possible to fully
                                    understand and plan a large project to that level of
                                    detail, it probably isn't a good idea. The Customer is
                                    unlikely to have the same desires by the end of the
                                    project as they had at the beginning. Embrace change, and
                                    all of that.

                                    Also, with a movie, as with building construction, you
                                    HAVE to make solid plans because your medium is not
                                    malleable like software. If you have hired a thousand
                                    extras for a scene, and gotten New York City to close
                                    down several streets, by golly you had better shoot the
                                    scene on that day! Or, imagine if half way through filming
                                    Spider-man, they decided that his suit should be puffy
                                    and green, instead of sleek and red?

                                    And, of course, budget overruns are still common in movie
                                    production.

                                    So, I suggest we toss the movie metaphor "in the can".

                                    O'Connell also uses Antarctic expeditions as a metaphor,
                                    mosly comparing Amundsen (successful) and Scott
                                    (unsuccessful). This seems somewhat better, because it
                                    relies on having enough resources on hand, and reacting
                                    to unexpected events. But if you really feel like your
                                    development team is (metaphorically) thousands of miles
                                    from the rest of the world, with no possibility of
                                    outside help or guidance, I pity you.

                                    Kevin
                                  • James Goebel
                                    ... Has anyone been watching Project Green Light on HBO? Being too cheap to pay for premium channels the only episodes I have seen are while I am on the road
                                    Message 17 of 19 , May 6, 2002
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                                      on 5/4/02 12:08 PM, kevinbsmith at kevinxp@... wrote:

                                      > --- In extremeprogramming@y..., "kentlbeck" <kentbeck@c...> wrote:
                                      >> More like challenge. (Put on your best wildly gesticulating
                                      >> Australian persona.) "It's not about stories. It's about
                                      >> movies."
                                      >>
                                      >> My mind immediately split in two. One half was busily
                                      >> defending the XP party line. The other half was going,
                                      >> "Movies. I never thought of that. Hmmm, that means..."
                                      >
                                      > Fergus O'Connell also uses this metaphor in his "How to Run
                                      > Successful Projects" books (subtitled "The Silver Bullet").
                                      > ...
                                      >
                                      > His concept is that if a producer and director can lay
                                      > out an entire movie production in such detail months in
                                      > advance, we should be able to do the same thing for
                                      > software development.
                                      >
                                      > I used to think this was a great idea, before I found XP.
                                      > Now, I realize that even if it is possible to fully
                                      > understand and plan a large project to that level of
                                      > detail, it probably isn't a good idea. ...
                                      >
                                      > Also, with a movie, as with building construction, you
                                      > HAVE to make solid plans because your medium is not
                                      > malleable like software.

                                      Has anyone been watching Project Green Light on HBO? Being too cheap to pay
                                      for premium channels the only episodes I have seen are while I am on the
                                      road visiting clients.

                                      The parallels between the project management issues of the Project Green
                                      Light movie and the project management issues in software projects seem very
                                      strong to me. Different specialists try to optimize different parts of the
                                      process, while decisions are made without looking forward enough to see what
                                      feature/scene was inadvertently moved outside the allocated budget.

                                      Other documentaries that I have seen on the topic of movie-making often show
                                      how the feedback provided by reviewing the prior day's film greatly affect
                                      what the director and producer do next.

                                      James Goebel
                                      www.menloinnovations.com
                                    • Larry Constantine
                                      Ron, ... I still wish you were presenting at forUSE 2002. But at least you will not make the mistake of not attending, right? :-) --Larry Constantine forUSE
                                      Message 18 of 19 , May 8, 2002
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                                        Ron,

                                        > Sounds like I made a mistake in not attending. Not my first. I hope
                                        > not my last. Thanks for the report!

                                        I still wish you were presenting at forUSE 2002. But at least you will not
                                        make the mistake of not attending, right? :-)

                                        --Larry Constantine
                                        forUSE 2002 | 25-28 August 2002
                                        Sponsored by Constantine & Lockwood, Ltd.
                                        www.foruse.com/2002
                                      • Ron Jeffries
                                        ... Hmm, it s not on my list ... I suppose it should be. It s not like I m earning any money, I mize well go have fun. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com You
                                        Message 19 of 19 , May 8, 2002
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                                          Around Wednesday, May 8, 2002, 1:00:28 PM, Larry Constantine wrote:

                                          >> Sounds like I made a mistake in not attending. Not my first. I hope
                                          >> not my last. Thanks for the report!

                                          > I still wish you were presenting at forUSE 2002. But at least you will not
                                          > make the mistake of not attending, right? :-)

                                          Hmm, it's not on my list ... I suppose it should be. It's not like I'm
                                          earning any money, I mize well go have fun.

                                          Ron Jeffries
                                          www.XProgramming.com
                                          You can observe a lot by watching. --Yogi Berra
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