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Re: On wanting success (was Re: [XP] cons of XP -- on "success")

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  • Dossy
    ... Excellent! ... Every methodology requires that the whole team (well, every person fulfulling one or more roles) must have the discipline to carry out the
    Message 1 of 98 , Mar 1, 2002
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      On 2002.03.01, drawstho@... <drawstho@...> wrote:
      > People want to succeed, and may even know how to succeed,
      > but do they have the discipline to do it?

      Excellent!

      > XP requires that each member of the team develop the discipline to
      > stick with the practices.

      Every methodology requires that the whole team (well, every person
      fulfulling one or more roles) must have the discipline to carry out
      the tasks assigned to their role(s).

      I think XP is "better than" other methodologies because its requisite
      tasks are simple and easy, thus my guess is that they should be easier
      to perform or "stick to" than those tasks of other, more complicated
      and difficult methodologies.

      For those people who even find it difficult to adhere to XP,
      I wonder what possible methodology they have the discipline to
      stick to. Code-and-fix probably.

      > IMHO, one of the reasons for high-ceremony processes is that they try
      > to replace individual discipline with process discipline, which is
      > enforced by a QA group, normally. This means that not everyone has to
      > have the discipline to do it right, just the process police...

      High-ceremony processes are geared towards playing the blame game.
      They enumerate in detail the functionality, who's responsible for
      delivering/implementing, testing, accepting, and releasing the
      deliverables, on what timeline, and some processes go so far as
      to even detail the actual deliverables themselves.

      The only value this could possibly deliver is so that you know
      who to blame with no uncertainty. The only value this might
      possibly have is to get rid of the team members that are to
      blame, and try again hoping for more success in the next
      life.

      > So, agile processes are quicker, cheaper, and more responsive, but
      > require more disciplined people. High ceremony processes can get the
      > job done with less disciplined people, with a higher cost in both
      > money and time.

      Do you really think so? High ceremony processes by definition have
      more ceremony, and doesn't it take discipline to carry out that
      ceremony?

      -- Dossy

      --
      Dossy Shiobara mail: dossy@...
      Panoptic Computer Network web: http://www.panoptic.com/
      "He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own
      folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on." (p. 70)
    • Dossy
      ... Yes. I feel the way you rephrased what I said is a good way of distilling what I was trying to say from what I actually said. I d even go so far as to say
      Message 98 of 98 , Mar 2, 2002
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        Dossy said:
        > > All the XP practices are the simplest (leanest?) way of achieving
        > > each necessary piece of the software development process, and
        > > in such a manner, support each other making each practice even
        > > that more useful than the practice by itself. That's why I
        > > say that substituting a different solution instead of doing the
        > > XP practice will be less effective.

        Dale said:
        > Here's my interpretation: XP has only essential practices. Other
        > methodologies include helpful-but-nonessential practices that you
        > might be able to remove safely. But if you remove a practice from XP,
        > you're removing something that is (very likely to be) essential to
        > your success.
        >
        > Am I getting the cause-and-effect right?

        Yes. I feel the way you rephrased what I said is a good way
        of distilling what I was trying to say from what I actually said.

        I'd even go so far as to say that XP's "essential practices" aren't
        even always essential for every single possible project. However,
        you can never be certain which practices aren't possible at the
        start of the project, so you're best bet is to do them all at the
        start. Then, decide how to adapt as experience guides you.

        -- Dossy

        --
        Dossy Shiobara mail: dossy@...
        Panoptic Computer Network web: http://www.panoptic.com/
        "He realized the fastest way to change is to laugh at your own
        folly -- then you can let go and quickly move on." (p. 70)
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